Hi All,

For those wanting to get a gauge of the rate of distribution of offers, I completed my assessment day in early July and received an email today with an offer to attend ASP in the second half of March. If offers are being sent out based on the date of completion of assessment day, then it seems they are making good progress considering Hansfalkenhagen receiving an offer a couple of days ago and having attended assessment day about a month earlier than myself.

I haven't received an offer and I completed my assessment day last April so perhaps that's not the basis for it. Guess I'll have to start nagging DFR again.

I did hear straight from my EC that assessment day date was what they planned to use as of some time late last year. Most of those ACO/JBAC candidates have valid OSB recommendations so it makes sense for them to be at the front of the line. OSBs are probably a little more taxing to run than assessment days.

However, I'm a bit wary that I may have slipped through the cracks again which incidentally also happened with my dossier for flight screening. Just out of curiosity did you guys receive offers from your EC, the ACMC or just some generic DFR contact?

Tayra I heard the same thing from my EC last year that order of assessment day date was how they were planning to do it.

I'm applying as a DEO pilot and got an ASP offer for early March, so it's apparently not only ACO/JBAC they're trying to move through - although I agree the OSBs likely play into it.

For background, I completed my assessment day over two days (due to weather) in late March and early April, and my ASP offer came from a generic DFR contact in Canberra. I haven't actually had any contact with Brisbane DFR in a month or so now.

If you completed your assessment day last April and haven't been offered an ASP slot I'd definitely chase it up with your EC.

Can I reconfirm what an EC is? Is it enlistment coordinator, or the person whom you're appointed to after you finish your assessment day? Also I apologise for my attitude previously, I was told that if I didn't receive an invitation by Jan 2018 that it was all over so I was a little frustrated and upset but reading the struggle some of you guys have gone through, after years of no responses and getting calls makes me hopeful. I completed my assessment day around April, guess I'll have to rebook.

Hey guys, I recently received an offer to attend an ASP course ( 1812D - 21/03 to 24/03). Basically in the same boat as everyone attending the ASP (lack of info, basically not knowing what to expect) for the first time.

Also if anyone on the forum is attending the same ASP, message me, would be awesome to know some people before heading in.

Thank you everyone for the advice. With the power of email and professional prose I now find myself on a course at the end of March. :ok:

Hey tayra, how long ago did you contact them? I tried sending an email to the address listed on defence jobs a week ago and no reply as of yet.

About a week ago. Through DFR though not the ACMC email listed on the jobs site.

edit: Also from reading around on facebook etc. it seems that those who attended a FSP last year are waiting longer compared to those who didn't get a shot. Could just be chance though.

Hello, Thankyou & Goodluck
 

HI guys and girls, I just wanted to say thankyou for such a knowledgeable thread from everyones inputs, I thought ild get involved by signing in and posting my first reply.

I started my application process the second time round in 2016 and after some hurdles to jump through, go for an assessment day next friday.

Looking forward to any generous info sharing around ASP specifics for those undergoing this in March & Good luck all!

Hi everyone, same story here for me, recently received an offer to attend an ASP course (1812B - 19/03 to 22/03). If anyone is attending the same course, send me a message!

Ps. Has anyone been through the first ASP yet?

Better get a good sleep then or is it just the base tour tomorrow?

All the best at the ASP hansfalkenhagen!

For all all those that have received offers to attend an ASP course, have you received your “information package” yet?
The reason I ask is because it’s been almost three weeks since I confirmed the date and I am yet still receive my itinerary.

thanks in advance guys.

Been quoted as one week before your course is when you'll receive your joining instructions.

Just received a call from a mobile number and it was about if I can make a last minute jump on the course starting next Wednesday (14/03/18) as someone has dropped out. I'll be speaking to my boss tomorrow if I can afford half the week off last minute.

Just to let everyone know, I did my assessment session August 2017.

Edit: So I am on the course next week, the lady mentioned that this was a good thing for me as there is an intake coming up for April/June. I believe this is for RAN and RAAF but just speculating.
Now to hit the books and study hard.

Assuming you're embargoed from talking about anything other than the alcohol situation, were you attempting to celebrate or drown sorrows?

Hey man. Congratulations, I wish you all the best.
Also, what type of tests were they? Mental arithmetics, hand-eye coordination, memory tests, simulator testing?
Thanks

That's interesting that a score that high still doesn't guarantee an OSB slot. Doesn't really leave much dynamic range in the scoring for assessing relative competitiveness. Perhaps the competitive score is higher at present because BFTS won't reach full throughput until well into next year and thus they don't have that many pilots slots to hand out.

Good luck with your potentially multiple OSBs.:ok:

Well done hans. I wish you all the best. What about the tests what were they? Maths? Memory? Simulation? Hand eye?
Is it true that the testing section spans 8 hours in time? Many thanks

Hey hans, so if you aim for pilot role you have to try your best both for pilot and mission elementary testing?

Great insight, thanks hans and others.
Aside from the structured “tests” at ASP, did the assessment and grading of the candidates cross over into other personal aspects such as service knowledge, personal motivation, conduct, teamwork, leadership, knowledge of training, career expectations etc? Obviously not from formal interviews but in any way contributing the competitiveness of the candidate.
Naturally these are critical and will bear out during OSB, but in preparing for ASP as efficiently as possible it would helpful to get a sense of these other items that don’t feature as highly or at all. If someone had entered this process from the pilot candidate side for example, is there any advantage or benefit in getting across all roles covered by ASP before arriving?
Many thanks to the contributors and best of luck to all candidates!

ASP offer
 

Hi all,

My EC advised in mid Feb that there are around 200 people in total recommended from previous OSBs (Pilots, ACOs & JBACs). Virtually everyone validity in the pool had to run out before the ASP kicked in on March 6th.

ASPs will consist of new candidates and the previous recommended lot.

The ASPs are all back to back in March. 4 ASP the 1st wk, 4 the second, 3 the third and 2 in the last wk of march.

Next ASP rounds will be in May.

Hope this helps those wondering what is going on.

So they have actually created two distinct sets of testing for both officer aviation pathways? I would imagine there absolutely would be a large degree of overlap in requirements for both roles.

From the research I've done on the RAF testing (which I believe is what we've adapted/licensed), their tests are split into aptitude domains of:

verbal reasoning, numerical reasoning, spatial reasoning, work rate, attentional capability and psychomotor coordination. They test all 6 domains and then perform what they've defined to be an optimal weighting of each to give you your pilot/aco/jbac etc. score.

The only possible non-crossover domain for JBAC/ACO would be pyschomotor coordination (which isn't even the highest weighted domain for pilot in the RAF).

But I guess this is all needless speculation and I'll find out what's what in about a week. In my view it would be entirely pointless to perform worse on the mission elementary testing in some hope that it will put you in higher contention for a pilot OSB.

There's nothing wrong with people knowing what they want. The RAAF will take as much (if not more) out of you than it will ever give you in return. No point playing the game if it isn't worth the prize at the end in your personal desires.

I wouldn't have joined the RAAF as anything other than a pilot. That doesn't make me a bad officer, if that was the case there'd be a lot less pilots...

Hans the world is not a fair place. The RAAF has been hiring pilots for a long time. They know what you need to pass the course, and what you need to have a successful career.
Someone totally focused of being a RAAF Pilot with no interest in being a NAV etc, is not a lesser candidate to someone who wants so badly to be in the military they would take any job.
You either pass the selection or you don't. If you don't, it's a personal choice what you choose to do next.
But I agree with you about someone thinking doing badly in the non pilot tests is somehow going to help their application. They would seem to have some gaps in critical reasoning, and perhaps a different career choice would better suit.

Thanks hans, you’ve answered the question in your response. The question wasn’t about effort in any particular test but rather being caught off guard in a conversation about other roles and having little knowledge about them. For what’s it worth, these recent contributions have prompted me to at least gain an overview of these roles before ASP.

Wow, you sure know a lot about aviation, military and civilian, for someone who's just starting out...

I'd rather sit up the front of any aircraft as a pilot, any day, than sit down the back of anything (super hornet included).

You got that right.


I like being a pilot, if it didn't work out here I'd be giving it a crack somewhere else. You should go have a chat to any ACO's working in the civilian sector of aviation post leaving the RAAF and their employability... there's a lot more to think of when joining Defence than just being keen to do everything. It doesn't make anyone less of a candidate when they know what they want to do and what they're not interested in.


Just as an offside remark as well, there's no such thing as applying yourself for only a "fighter pilot" role, by the time you find out if you're going fighters or not it's too late to just disappear into the ether if you find out you're going multi crew. That’s not how pilots course works.

Where is the civilian equivalent of fast jet aircrew? I guarantee there are lot more ex Fast Jet Pilots working at the mainlines right now than there are ACO’s.

Haha, I got my first job out of high school for being the only one at a group interview not wearing thongs and boardies.

I don't think it's unreasonable for people going through these first ASPs to only want the job they've applied for. I want to be a pilot and an Officer in the RAAF... at the same time. It's going to be different for everyone. If it actually becomes the case that you don't know which job pathway you're on till after OTS then yeah, it seems very likely that some people will jump ship during their IMPS grace period if they dont get what they want. So as it stands, those self-selecting themselves out of contention is good thing. As for the people being bitter after failing, this is likely the first major 'NO' that some of them have received in their lives. Especially because it's almost a personal attack of 'no you as a person do not have the aptitude to do this job'. Whether or not they bounce back and learn from it before having another crack is the main concern.

After some more cyber sleuthing I found those 7 domains that you mentioned. Looks like they've introduced some new names for them whilst the tests remain the same. Hope you did well on the CLAN test if it was covered. It's the most significant (statistical) indicator of IFR performance apparently.

Thanks to all the contributors, the info has definitely made me more confident.

During the ASP test, I am guessing they don't give you any feedback for individual answers? Like a green tick.
And I couldn't find anything about it online, but is it true that there is a verbal reasoning test in the ASP?

Hey thunder, you guess right. Practice questions will give you a green tick, but the testing questions won’t. The only feedback you get is at the end of course, which is still just a general overview.

There is a bit of verbal reasoning, but it’s not especially difficult.

@hansfalkenhagen - congratulations on the recommendation. You seem very motivated and keen to do well, which will stand you in good stead in your future training.

To all others reading his advice, take it with a grain of salt.

Many years ago I received a phone call to congratulate me on being offered the role of Navigator. I declined, and 3 days later received the offer of Pilot, a decision which I cannot thank my 17 year old self enough for.
DFR and the RAAF will try and get you in for whatever role they can, knowing there is a trickle down to other specialisations from those that initially applied for Pilot.

There is absolutely nothing wrong with knowing what you want. There are many great careers in the RAAF, however being 'in the RAAF' is not the be all and end all, and it is 100% OK to say you only want to be a Pilot.

Also, '3000 pilot applicants a year' is drastically overstated. We are chronically short and can't get enough good people in the door, let alone out the end of the training pipeline.

In the late 90's/early 2000's there were approx 10,000 applications for pilot across all three services per year. There has been a steady decline in interest over the last 15 years or so. In 2016 there were 400 people who walked through the door and said I want to be a military pilot.

Because people of the current generation aren’t stupid enough to sign on to something for 11.5 years with so many variables when they can just get a HECS loan and do a Cadetship...

The RAAF will figure that out, eventually.

Is the IMPS really the defining factor? If you read these forums for any amount of time it doesn't seem like anyone is painting Civil aviation in the best light either.

Times are and have been changing for a while.

I like the RAAF, I’m not dumb enough to think it’s the best wicket in the world though. The exodus underway is enough to demonstrate that.

But I’ll never regret it, hell, I love the actual flying more than I could ever explain.

My thoughts exactly!

But... I believe it's a young mans game, unless you want to be CAF.

Have done both. Much preferred being with Ronny.

Yeah, below average pay, moving every 3 years, secondary duties that have zero to do with being a pilot, ground jobs, etc...

The best wicket it aint, don't get me wrong, it's good for a while but you cant do it forever.

Dude, you haven’t done it, don’t pretend you know more than the people who have.

Like I said, it’s the best flying I have or ever will do.

That’s about the end of it.