I wouldn't define a real war only as one on home turf with the ADF fully commited. Iraq's a pretty real war. There's a C130H with a bullet hole in it to prove that. And I think the Army boys in-country think it's pretty real
Just because no Aussies have been killed yet doesn't mean that some people over there aren't trying to very hard to kill us.
I hope your mum realises that being female only excludes you from combat in the Infantry in the ADF. RAN ships have female sailors and RAAF aircraft have female aircrew who have most certainly been sent to the Stan and to the Sandpit.
It's good that you realise that you could go to war. There is NO POINT joining the ADF if you would refuse to serve in combat.

Surditas,
i apologise, the implication i made is unjust. the thought process in my head was evaluating potential vs actual risk - whilst there are plenty of people trying to kill you, the chances of survival, at least statistically-wise aren't that unfavourable. and to quote you- "most people <..> have had a good time". that's what i was referring to mostly, and once again, i'm truly sorry if i offend.

and my reference to "real" war was fuelled by grandparents' actual experiences in WW2, in former Soviet Union, as compared to stories of fun and occassional afgani encounters of previously mentioned friend. NOT diminishing the loss of life in Iraq and the A-Stan.

i sure hope my mum DOESN'T realise that!! i wouldn't want to deal with that any earlier than i had to!! (if i had to)

CAN you refuse? i was under the impression that it is a condition of entry, that you understand and agree to serve, if required.

Surditas.

As I have had much time to think about the alternatives to this line of employment - indeed grade 5 it was when I knew that I wanted to do this - I have had much opportunity to also ponder this very point.

It is, I believe different for every person. Olena has been able to be living evidence of this.

For myself, I would not hesitate. There is a knowledge that goes along with "...signing on the dotted line...". I have not had the opportunity. Yet.
The knowledge that I speak of is, for me, the complete and utter conviction that, if I was asked, and if I had to, I would give everything that I had, including my life to defend the way of life that I know, and that the ones I love know.

This extends to all current deployments - both acknowledged and disavowed. In each and every conflict, there is an interest that is uniquely Australian, and undeniably so. This may not be so apparent to those that don't serve, or have the desire to serve, yet it is those same people that would come running to the ADF if the values we stand up for now in all conflicts we are involved in were degraded, made extinct and opposing values put in their place.

The catch cry would be; "...and the ADF did what to protect us from this???!!!!..."

I digress.

The answer to your question goes a little something like this...

I would be there, with bells on. I am NOT a war-monger, and I do apologize if I have portrayed myself as one, or have introduced doubt of my intentions within the R.A.A.F. by being honest about my feeling towards this sticking point.

In my opinion, the reason that every single person is in the ADF is to be the first, the last, and every person in between that will stand up for our people.

And stand up without question, or hesitation.
No exceptions.

I will not comprimise my point of view on this, as it is one of the major reasons that I have always known that I want to follow this path. If it happens, I will be there.

And heaven help anyone that stands against me, or stands in my way.

Again, my sincerest apologies to anyone and everyone if this point of view, or this conviction that I am proud to call my own is offensive, or derogatory in any way, or is perceived to be in any form.

All that said, I have no doubt that we have the BEST defence force in the world. Bar none.
That is a very comforting thought when considering being in the business of defending one's own country.

That's it. Soapbox away now...

;)

Olena,

Don't worry. Not offended. I see your distinction, though. Both the Sandpit and Germany vs. Soviet Union are/were "real" wars. The German/Soviet one was, of course much, much, much bigger (on the question of scale, destruction and loss of life, you almost cannot compare the two). What makes both of them "real" is in both cases people are/were killing each other. No-one said you can't have fun, though.
You probably can refuse to be deployed, but I should imagine it would be a career killer, not to mention you could get charged. I haven't heard of anyone refusing to go. Quite the opposite, everyone was/is quite keen.

FTI,

You're right. Everyone has their own reasons for joining. What matters most though is how you do your job when it matters.

Hi,
I'm new to this forum, yet seeing this post encouraged me to join!
I'm 18 and have just got through to OASC at Cranwell!

I think its great to be interested at 15, but I suggest you keep other options open! I've wanted to be a pilot for as long as I can remember, but am now at the stage where the government is hardly encouraging recruiting for pilots and even if I get through OASC, I may not be in IOT till late next year following the cancellation of 2 IOTs!

Join ATC if you can, however, D of E and things like that are just as good, proving you're a team player (excuse the cliche phrasing we've all reapeted heard in recruitment advertising!) Another bonus is if you can get some hours, it is, however, very expensive! If not fixed wing, try gliding!

Keep us posted
3(F)Sqn

if i could please amend my original statement to- "i don't think that there'll be a *large-scale* war including australia". i answered the original question in terms of perceived danger to my persona only. not what i would think of politics - whether it's right or wrong, whether i'd have moral issues following orders, etc. that i can only hypothesize on and it's an endless debate.
i'll try to refrain from exhibiting the foot-in-mouth syndrome.

i suppose you may have some individuals joining the forces for training/money and not realising the implications of their decision? i can't see many cases of that, although, human stupidity is a widespread disease...

As per fun- you are right, after all, a cousin's grandparents met in a nazi concentration camp, so it can't ALL have been that bad :E
black humour aside, my credibility on anything in that field is lacking. what we were taught as part of soviet patriotism (and what to do with undetonated missiles or the enemy spies, not that we found any), and what i've personally heard from guys from soviet/afgan and russian/chechen wars... i've been sheltered from all that and any passionate stand of mine hasn't yet stood the test of reality. Thus i apply great (hopefully healthy) dosages of cynicism to any potential passionate outbursts of mine. one day- i may speak from experience. i doubt there'll be any less cynisism then though. (especially considering how so much of what i learnt already about things like birthcountry, the great Stalin, communism etc turned out to be true)


i'm more inclined in the peaceful application of my (hopefully) talents, such as the great part our Navy aviation has in SAR, firefighting, peacekeeping / border control operations to name a few. PLEASE don't mistake this for a desire to do the easy jobs and hide in the trenches when **** hits the fan. how the hell can i become the best then? ;) on a more serious note, i see more good being done in there, especially how it's now a *relatively* peaceful time.



Surditas, well said. thank you.

i hope i've explained my stand a bit more clearly this time. my convictions do not lack strength. i merely allow that in my life i could NOT have seen and understood enough to say that i know all and that what i know and believe will never change. not to say that my morals are subject to flunctuations!! * insert disclaimer*

Olena.

No danger of you being misunderstood herein. It is very heartening to see someone else who is just as well aware of the implications of being in the ADF and what it means in our current political and military climate.

Don't worry in the least Olena. Good to see that there is no shortage of willing and ready individuals to take up the offer to defend and protect this country and its interests.

No misunderstanding interpreted...

:O:ok:

olena,

I was just told pass/fail. Nothing more specific.

On another note, I've just completed my assessment day and passed through that. Now it's a matter of waiting (and hoping) for an invite to attend Flight Screening at Tamworth.

Coran

Hey Coran...

If you are successful, do you think that you would be able to keep us updated as often as was convenient for you while you are down there??? I am very keen to get as much inside info as I can on that place, as decent and current reports are so hard to come by...

If you could find the time, that would be priceless info. I am very well aware that they are very very wary of too much info getting out about the course. After all, it is a competitive environment, and they don't want anyone getting too ahead of themselves before attending.

Fair enough I say, but anything that you think could/would be of use/assistance to myself and all other hopefuls who are both watching and contributing to this thread would be absolutely priceless.


Thankyou in advance for anything that you could do for us.

FTI,

If I am successful in making it to Tamworth then I'd be happy to give updates while I'm there, without breaking any rules of course.

Coran

Coran,

Likewise, I passed all my testing, psych, defence interview etc..

Hope to see you there soon.

Go and see your Training and Development Flight or FDS or whatever they are called these days, they should sort out interview techniques and have loads of good gen for you.

Speak to your JEngO, he should point you in the right direction as a starter. Also might be worth contacting a base which does the type of flying you want to end up doing if you aren't already at one and see if you can have a visit - get it from the horses mouth etc.

The best practice for Aptitude tests is to do loads of Speed/Distance/Time type stuff, there are probably some good books out there that people can suggest?

Good luck

DS

Since it sounds like there are a few of us up to the same stage I thought it would be good to see just how long some others have played the waiting game for the call up the Flight Screening.

Anybody care to share their experiences?

Thanks.

Wiz

Wow this thread just keeps getting revived!

I'll briefly share what I can remember about my acceptance from last year. It took around 3 weeks after successful Stage 1 testing before I received those letters asking about my FSP and service preferences. Then it was another 2/3 weeks before I got a call up from a lady at Tamworth asking when I could come up. (I was quite vague in filling out my FSP course preference form and was just short of writing "ASAP" on it...come to think of it, I might have written that somewhere on the form.) The next available course for me was set for about a month later. But, as you know, there was an unfortunate interruption in that time.....

But total time was going to be about 2.5 months from end of Stage 1 to beginning of FSP...and that's about as efficient as I've ever seen them, seeing as I was just told today that the ADFRC only "received" my appeal on the 31st July......when in fact I had sent it out mid-June. B*gger, Australia Post must have dropped their standards.

Great to see so many hopefuls, and if I may take a bite out of the pie, Havick and Coran, and Wizard and FTI, if and when you guys get there, please do give us some details. PM if you feel that is more appropriate. It would be fantastic to set up some sort of mini network. It's all about teamwork, right? :ok:

As Dirty Sanchez says go and visit different sqn and go flying with them. This gives loads of benefits:

a, it's a good tick in the box at OASC when they say what have you done to find out about your chosen NCA trade, it shows you have got off you ar$e and done something

b, you can get some really good flying out of it (I flew the low level heli lanes in London in a Puma, and it was outstanding), and if you are really luck you can come and fly on a mighty Herc (K of course)

c, you may find out you hate it and its not for you

d, you may find out you love it and it will give you that little push to try a little harder when things start not going you way

and

e, its better than free because the air force will pay you travel cost etc. (which I suppose is free before anyone starts getting clever)

I did it a few years ago and it is the best thing, air force wise (just in case my wife reads this), I have done.

Also girls love flying suits as we all know :ok:

Get your head in the newspapers and get a good idea of what is going on in the world and in the UK.

All the best M8

ATF

Hey all,

Spoke to BAE systems in Tamworth, there is only two more FPS between now and the end of the year.

Hey Havick...

Did they give you dates???:confused:

well, technically it's three but the next one starts on 21 August.
ADFA entry has 8 more FSP's till the end of the year.
as for DEO/SSO
16 Oct-04 - 30 Oct 7 spots and
30 Oct-04 - 13 Nov 8 spots.

has anyone else been told how many files were sent off to Tamworth from your recruiting unit?

Pilot Testing?
 

Hi all,

I managed to get through the aptitude testing and am booked in for pilot testing next month. I am after some info on the pilot testing.

I have read about 'following a dot on the screen' and the obvious accurately reading aircraft instrumentation.

Any info/advice would be greatly appreciated!

Here's my story:
I have wanted to fly jets since I was little, however my eyesight isn't the best as I wear contacts/glasses.

I have tried to get in twice before since 1999 but i was told laser was not being accepted. Recently I read laser may be accepted, so I called up and they confirmed. I am going to see an Opthamolgist soon (as asked by nurse on JOES day).

I am looking at natural methods of eyesight correction and am willing to undergo laser to have a chance at getting into the defence forces.

At the moment, I'm studying aerspace eng and flying on side - almost got my PPL. I'm hoping to attain my dream one day and have researched alternatives such as flight test engineering.

Have read this thread with great interest - good luck to everyone and never ever give up.

Further to my last quick off-the-cuff remark, which I stand by, I would add that getting other people's opinions is fine, but look in your heart, temper it with what you have seen already and make up your own mind.

I can only speak about the RAAF, not the RAF, but would suggest the basics are similar.
Talk to 10 people and you'll get a confusing range of attitudes which are all about how they feel they have been treated during their service. Fundamentally, if you remain positive you will tend to have positive experiences.

Think about it; many people would give their left proverbial to fly military aircraft, and the training is excellent. So even with low flying hours on some types, and some military illogicalities to put up with sometimes, to do that is to do something really good; plus when you get out you have well respected credentials because the taxpayer has spent a million on you (not sure how many pounds you guys estimate to train an RAF pilot, but must be a goodly amount!).

In the end it's up to you to decide to apply or not - obviously getting in is another thing, but really wanting to do it is a good starting point.

ACEY,

Did you apply for ADFA or DEO entry?

havick,

I applied for DEO - already have a degree and 1/2 way through a 2nd one so don't really need a 3rd one!

Besides, from what i hear any kind of aviation degree is pretty useless - you are better off getting something else.

But.. if I was just coming out of yr. 12 and was given the oppourtunity to do the bach. technology (aviation) through ADFA I would take it...

ACEY,

yeah, i also applied for DEO. What date did they give you for FSP? I am in the middle of an aviation engineering short course for my LAME subjects at the moment so i can add so i couldn't put in any preferences until that finishes end of next month. Should be on the november course though from what I have been told.

Which service did you apply for? ARMY, NAVY or AIR FORCE?

Well good luck, let me know how you go.

hey all,

Had my pilot specific testing today and I found it quite difficult, especially the maths, fuel, distance, time calcuations and hand-eye co-ordination tasks.

Also as I was doing the tests I questioned whether I knew exactly was required, which obviously may have brought down my results if I was doing the wrong things!

Unfortunately I did not meet the requirements for a pilot, and they offered me air defence instead, to which I declined.

Next shot at passing pilot testing is in 12 months, and I can only attempt this a total of 3 times.

It is very disappointing and I will be applying for my results through 'freedom of information' to try and work on the particular areas.

Good luck to anyone in the process - I would be happy to supply details of the test (don't have the time to post it right now... maybe some other time)

Has anybody received an invite for either of the Oct/Nov DEO/SSO FSP's? If not, when would we expect to have heard by? Gotta love this waiting game!

Hey guys,

I thought I'd post again as I have some information that may be of use, and also wanted to let everyone know that I'm back in the race now. My appeal was cleared. I could hardly believe it but they're willing to take a chance for now I guess. Worth the wait after all :)

Uhh Acey, did you get a chance to see that opthalmologist before getting the cut? For Acey and anyone else interested, I have been given a form titled "Information for ADF Candidates - Refractive Surgery". It's not a terribly detailed document and leaves a lot to be questioned. But as a summary aircrew applicants can have LASEK and PRK. Non-aircrew applicants can have LASEK, PRK, and LASIK. And it's important to note that pre-operative limits of -5 dioptres myopia and +7 dioptres hypermetropia apply. Any questions please PM and I'll try to help with what else I know.

Anyway I went for renewal testing earlier this week as my medical/psych/Defence Officer interviews had lapsed +12 months (aptitudes remain for 3 years). And just received the FSP preference form. I'll post that off Monday and join the ranks of those in waiting. Hopefully I'll get reselected. Right now trying to get fit and mentally prepare for the dreaded OSB. I'm on a hunt for anyone out there who has gone through the OSB and can possibly describe it. Especially looking for tips on how not to be intimidated by four officers looking down on you from larger seats, with, quite obviously, the intention of intimidating you. Oh the thought of it.....

:O

Haven't posted before but I can feel your pain. I went through FSP in May this year and got a Not Yet 12, so currently just doing what I can to improve my chances for when I go back for the OSB again early next year. Would be happy to share any info with you as the more you know now the less you have to worry about when you're down in Tamworth, and there is a lot to learn down there! For short anyway, know your general history of RAAF and aviation, also current ADF events (postings, aircraft upgrades, purchases etc.), why you want to be a pilot and an officer, why they want you. Just read as much and know as much as you can before you go down there. That means that you can then concentrate on the flying (OSB doesn't matter if you don't do well in your flying first!). Anyway ask me what you like, I don't mind sharing the wealth. However, they treat everyone differently and will find your weaknesses and strengths easily. Oh yeah, and in the OSB, the three officers are kids stuff compared to the psych.

As someone who has sat on a RAAF pilots board, may I suggest that TJF has some good advice.


.

Anyone get offered a place on the Oct30th - Nov13th FSP Course?
 

G'day everyone,

Just to let you all know how long the waiting game is, I just got called up yesterday and offered a spot on the 30th Oct - 13th Nov FSP. SO that's about a 3 - 4 month wait or so from the time you finish your psych, defence interview etc.... Also, that is only approx 2 - 3 weeks notice that you have been offered a place on the course before it starts.

If anyone else has been offered a place on the course please post a reply.

Cheers,
Havick.

Hey havick, congrats on being invited to FSP and good luck getting through!!

no, i haven't heard anything, but to be honest i don't think i stand much chance this year, not with how i went in the tests/interview. but it's not too far from my 12 months lapsing and this time round.... :ok:

Thanks olena,

Just finished FSP yesterday, all seven of us on our course got recommended. Hopefully (fingers, toes, arms etc.. crossed) I will be recieving an offer within the next few weeks for a start date in the middle of Jan.


I do know that they are running 2 more FSP's between now and the end of the year but I think they are for ADFA.

Good Luck.

P.S. Hornetboy also got reccomended.

Just trying to keep this thread alive,

As posted before, any other applicants starting OTS or NEOC early 2005?

FSP 8th Jan
 

well, now i have a legitimate excuse to resurface this thread again- i've been invited today for the first FSP in 2005.

Anyone else got the call?

i suppose it's back to the books now for me :D

and if i can collectively ask those of you already having been to FSP for permission to PM you with a few questions - thanking you in advance!

(what a difference to the day one phonecall makes!!! and it's even miles away from a job offer!)

Olena,

Congratulations! I know the feeling ;)

Of course I'm willing to help ya out, as people on here have helped me in the past, but there are limits as to exactly what we can answer, as we were all warned about divulging information online.

I've been mostly staying off PPRUNE lately for that reason, but now would be a good time to say a big thank you to all the people who contributed to this thread to give me some of the best advice anyone could hope for. If you guys are reading, Surditas, Trash 'n' Navs, Cougar, Scran, and especially Rene/Kev Rivkin - I printed out your advice and lived it out. Also should thank an anonymous Sqdn Leader for advising me through all the way.

Now comes the hard bit I suppose :)

Guys, thanks once again!!

just 3 weeks to go and i'm looking forward to posting here again. (and doing my best so that i actually do so bursting with joy rather than self-pity)

just one more (extended) question - i am applying for the navy, having the other two as second preferences. Up to this point i haven't really researched them knowing quite strongly that i really only want to go navy (and posting on a RAAFie thread, :E ).
A good point has been raised that since the basic training is the same for all, it may make more sense to take whichever offer i may get and then transfer.

those that i've spoken to haven't indicated any difficulties in changing over. Would anyone here disagree with that?
and should i expect many questions at the OSB on the other services?

the more i find out the more i am assured that there isn't much else that i would want to do with my life, and it is an awesome feeling!! :8

Olena wrote

Here's where the problem lies for many who don't know exactly how the system works.

(1) First false assumption......... you have to pass flight screening AND be recommened for all 3 services before you can decide to change your preferences. Not everyone who makes it through the board is recommended for all 3 services. If for instance, you are only recommended for the navy and not the other 2 services, then you may not have the opportunity to change.

(2) Second false assumption.........."it may make sense to take whichever offer..........etc" When you fill out the forms and show your first preference, then, providing you are accepted into that service, eg. navy in your case, then you will go into the navy pool. At no time, whilst you are in the navy pool, will you be even considered in the other services. You won't even be considered for your second or third preferences UNLESS you change them to your first preference. So, please don't hold your breath waiting for an offer from the services which you don't have as your first preference. You can only be in one pool at a time. Meanwhile you are not even considered in the other services whilst you are in the pool of your first preference.

I suspect that most are not informed of this little "hiccup" in the system.

(3) Third false assumption......."that since the basic training is the same for all". No, the basic training is NOT the same for all. Air Force and Navy have the same training. Army is protracted.

I have decided to post this information as I am not a member of the military (so sue me!!) but I believe that those who need to know should know. Having been through all this for the last 18 months with a close relative, I believe that others who are going through the same process should be informed of the very simple basics that no-one ever bothers to tell you until it may be too late.

Good luck guys.

Bzulu

Bzulu

Check six

Make certain your false assumption are really false.

Guess which one isn't

finestkind wrote:

Sorry, but I'm not into guessing games......nor are most of those who are trying to find a career as a pilot. That's what makes it so damn difficult for those trying to get through flight screening and into the services as pilots. It's all one big guessing game that no-one really wants to talk about.

If you have somethiing to offer, please feel free to contribute your knowledge. As far as I'm aware, everything I've said is FACT from recent experience. If you have a problem with what I've said, feel free to correct me here on line so that others may learn.

I've only tried to tell it as I know it and to help others who are constantly left in the dark about how the system really works.

People, may I just butt in for a second with a few words of advice.
I was a military pilot for 22 years, mainly RAAF but about 5 years working with and then in the Army.
I'm not familiar with the details of changing between services in the current training world prior to wings, but would highly recommend taking whichever you can get.
Naturally most people will have a preference, and you should go for it strongly, but be aware that the training you will recieve is very good in all three.

As has been said, the RAAF and RAN get different training to the Army, and to my mind the PC-9 route is a good grounding for any flying you are likely to do later. It is also the de-facto standard for service transfers as a qualified pilot - people trying to go from the Army to the others need to do a 'validation' course at CFS to give them those elements of training that they would have missed in their own basic training, such as high/lo nav and combat form. However, such transfers can and do happen.

Also, I'm not saying the Army training is substandard, just different. Many RAAF pilots would be keen to fly helicopters, and some cross-service postings have happened recently. Of course the RAN is basically helos too.

This is probably a bit off track for you guys, but what I'm getting at is that if you can get yourself into any of the services for a pilots' course, do it. No matter what type you fly in what service, you'll get professional training and satisfying operational flying, and if you decide to pull the pin later on you will have a log book full of good experience that would cost your civil counterparts more than anyone can afford.

Best of luck.

Great words of wisdom from "Arm out the window" (what a fabulous name :D ) Certainly not off topic at all.

That's exactly what I have recently been through, indirectly. One has to ask the question, do you want to be a fast jet pilot, which is the ambition of most who initially want to join the military, or do you want to be a pilot??

If the answer to the question is "fast jet pilot", then one may sit in the RAAF pool for many months waiting to even get an offer. That offer may never come and after 12 months the process will have to start all over again. However, if the answer to the question is "I want to be a pilot" then the options are also available for the other services PROVIDED the 1st preference indicates one of the other services. That is the information that many are not aware of. Preferences have to be changed to reflect another service before anyone is considered for the other services.

Hope this make sense..........and just remember, the current CAF was a helicopter pilot. ;)

Cheers,

Bzulu