Re: ADF Pilot Medical
 

Elvis, I hope you have been exercising!

The thing about only being able to do a base visit after you have a date, is crap. Ring ANY flying base in the ADF and ask them for a visit. You will get one no doubt.
And by the way, you should be proud of which service you are going to join. ADF pilot my butt, we're all in it together, but be proud of the 'blue' 'white' or 'green'.
Good luck:D

My loyalty is to whoever gives me the opportunity. I'd be happy flying for any of the services. They all offer their own exciting style of flying. I'm sick of GA's shonky operators, dodgey maintenance, and lack of employment stability with operators shutting down all around. I gave up the dream of flying the big commercial jets long ago, and now that I have the opportunity to join the ADF, I can spend the next 20yrs enjoying my flying.

Yes, BDB, I've been out jogging this week. Good fun with all those flies.

Re: base visits. Does anyone know who I should contact at RAAF 37SQN for a base visit?

Colour tests (RAAF)
 

About two weeks ago I went through the Australian Defence Force Testing for pilot entry into the RAAF and passed all the aptitude tests and was about to be sent to Flight Screening but in the medical I was boarder line between Colour Perception 2 (CP2) and CP3 (you have to be CP2 for DEO Pilot).
The doc said that it would be ok for me to be sent to Flt Screening but some more testing would follow, but after about an hours wait he said that at this stage its no go and you will have to appeal this matter with the guys in Canberra, my application still under consideration.

I have a CASA class one medical which allows me two fly any aircraft daytime or nightime and as a commercial pilot for the last 3 years have never had a problem with anything outside or inside the aircraft day or night, no problem with the colours on the EFIS screens.

I am asking if any Military pilots have had any sort of problem similar to this, or know of anyone who has?.
If the appeal gets the thumbs up then its all ok but I am wondering what my chances are?

All replies welcome thanks,

Wings Of Fury.

GO THROUGH THE APPEAL PROCESS
 

APPEAL

Whilst I didn't have an eye sight issue at the time I was canned on a hearing issue. It was only through a very lucky meeting with a senior RAAF Officer whilst serving Chicko Rolls and Hot Pies at the local cafe in the sunny fly ridden out back of Northern Australia...ie Katherine! that I was given very useful information on the appeal process. I appealed "Howzat!!!"and subsequently did a far more thorough and accurate set of testing at the National Acoustics Lab and I was accepted. The recruiting staff ( probably through no fault of their own) were not helpful and certainly did not offer me the appeal option, they did however offer me jobs in the NCO ranks (probably because they were short on that particular quota!!!!) and would not assist me any more. I might add from my first application to arriving at Officer training school was almost 3 years!!!! The recruiters were only game to go to the Northern Territory twice in a year at that stage so the long and the short of it is hang in there!

I might add I subsequently went blind and deaf whilst in the Air Force but that was probably from the stale beer and 19,000 decibal stereo in the Pearce O's mess bar!!!

:D :D :D

Thanks, I sent the appeal last week its on its way to Canberra.
I can only hope they approve it, I have documented evidence from CASA and one other letter.
I am also in my 3rd year of applying.

The Docs are jokes....
 

Obviously you are heading down the right track with an appeal - good advice from Fox3snapshot. My tip is that you don't stop if the appeal fails first time. Experience says the Doctors are in the business of tin plating their arse rather than making efforts to clarify results of tests...it is going to be your job to give them the confidence to accept you with your slight problems (and we all have them). Second opinions / specialist reports will all help them. Have you sat the board yet? If you haven't a tenacious approach to this hicup with the doctors will go down well with the pilots on the board...just what we want to see.

Good luck and post more if you need more info.

Fox3snapshot: Which cafe in Katherine? Not the BP...and do you mean YKYMF?;)

Thanks F75,
I have made plans about appealing against appeal!
Have not sat the Board yet, its after Flt screening now, but the doc said to me on the day of testing "we may give you specialist testing after the Board" but then walked out of the room for 2 mins and came back and gave me news to appeal. He was a civilian doc.

Do you think I have sent enough information to back the appeal? ( the letter from CASA/Victorian College of Optometry, one from a Parent/Guardian who has knowledge of this, and a letter on my behalf)

Thanks again,

BP of Course.....
 

F75

Enjoyed many a Chiko Roll and Pauls Iced Coffee at the lovely little BP at the end of Katherine Terrace....in fact I logged about 400 hours there having spent 20 years of my life in Katherine and my parents running that particular BP at one stage. What I didn't mention is that my hearing problem was induced by DJAY-ing at what was then "Mopokes", then becoming Wings nightclub (CROSSWAYS HOTEL) and god knows what now....."I don't care what music just play it loud!!!!!"

Good call on the try and try again advice F75....I did and it worked. And as for the butt covering, well after all the palava of getting in I had a nice green slip I had to carry around in my medical docs that reflected the Air Forces generosity in allowing me in and a clause to ensure that I would not claim in later life that I was deafened by an FA18 fighter doing engine runs in the Willytown Back bar!!!! Truth is the cleaners vacuum cleaner was just as noisy but that's another story.

Good, Better, Best,
Never let it rest,
Till the good is better,
And the better best!




:D :D :D

Unfortunately the appeal didn't go ahead, I got a phone call from a man who told me something strait out of a book telling me why I couldn't join, it defeats the purpose of appealing because what he told me is what I was appealing against, I don't think they took it very seriously.:mad:

Any suggestions? Maybe a re-appeal?:confused:

The dots kind of test always drives me nuts....seems I have a Red-Green deficency....nothing said until I did my UK Medical exam....had the special light test they use...passed no problem....then 29 years after my first US Army Class One medical exam.....my friendly FAA quack decided I was "colour blind" and was going to ground me medically. Despite my protests....he remained adamant that I "did not see the same colours as "normal" sighted people" and thus was unfit. Notwithstanding my 9,000 hours of flying at that time....accident and incident free mind you.....it took my employer suggesting they would remove all of their business to some other clinic before our Quack decided maybe he was being out of order. Not really, an appeal....but had the same effect. The FAA and CAA have special tests to assess the degree of colour blindness.....hang in there and keep looking for a friendly quack that will try to help you.

To the wings of fury,

there is someone else in the same boat...

I too am apealing the nurses decision to scrap me because of an accident i had 9 years ago. I have 2 metal pins in my femur. These pins do not affect and never have affected me at all! Some bureaucrat decided "...let there be no pins in the air force", and thats final.

A letter from my surgeon states that the ADF view is completely illogical and that ADF are rarely willing to consider applicants on a case by case basis which is what some people deserve. He goes on to suggest to threaten them will legal action, i.e. equal opportunity, unfair discrimination etc

:eek:

Perhaps this applies to you, and maybe its something you can consider.

Good luck,

:cool:

It is has been well known in the ADF community for number of years that a senior ADF commander is green/red colour blind. The word is that he passed the eye test by memorising the numbers/lines/shapes.

From all accounts and from my flying with him, he has never had any problems, including being a highly regarded QFI.

WOF, send a letter to the defence force ombudsman(address in white pages government section) and one to the minister for Defence (I'm sure you know who he is after stuyding for the board). These two areas won't have the answer for you but should be able to get you a official WRITTEN response. Make sure you write a letter (a nice one), don't settle for phone calls. Let us know what happens.

Thanks OzBiggles and all, will do.

RAAF selection question?
 

O.k i realise that a subject of this nature should belong in a wannabe forum BUT after e-mailing the ex RAAF pilots whom fly the strikemasters at pt cook (YMPC) and not getting a reply, and reading all the "glossy" info form the air force i would like a realistic view of what to expect, i assumed this forum is the place to get these answers!

i want to know what is the selection process for the RAAF and what is to be expected in trying to achieve a fast jet position?

i understand only 2-3 pilots out of 1500 get to th f/j's....

i would be very appreciative of any replys and info!

MASI,

First up, it's not two to three pilots out of 1,500 who get to fly FJ's, but two to three applicants out of 1,500 who get to fly FJ's. Out of a typical pilots course, 40-50% of graduates will be posted to FJ's with probably a third of those passing F/A-18 or F-111 conversion, so it is more like two to three pilots out of 15 who get to fly FJ's.
My information on the selection process is now six or seven years old, dating back to when I applied. Your best bet to get the current info is contact Recruiting and they will outline the process. Another good thing to do is arrange a visit to a flying SQN (Recruiting can arrange this for you) and talk to the junior pilots there as they can give you first hand information about their selection.
First, you have to ask yourself a whole bunch of questions. In no particular order, some of them are:
1. Why do I want to join?
2. Am I comfortable with signing on for the required 12 years?
3. How would I feel if the RAAF sent me off to a real shooting war?
4. What does my family think about my joining?
5. What do I know about the RAAF?
6. What do I know about the job of being a military pilot?
7. If I didn't get FJ's, would I be happy at, say, P-3's or at Hercs?
8. If I failed pilots course, would I stay in the RAAF and try for Nav or another category?
Next, at Recruiting, you will be barrier tested which involves:
1. Comprehension testing
2. Mathematical testing (you don't need to be a mathematical genius, but mental arithmatic is something you should be familiar with)
3. Psych testing
4. Physical co-ordination testing
5. Medical testing.
After that, expect a chat with the psych and then the recruiting officer. If you pass the initial stage, you will head off to Tamworth for Flight Screening where they put you in a plane to see if you can take instruction and not throw up (too much) during aeros. If successful at Flight Screening you will be put in front of a Selection Board and asked many of the questions that I mentioned above.
If successfull at the Board then it is off to Officer training for you which will either be three years at ADFA or three months at OTS.
Following Officer training you will enjoy three weeks of Combat Survival Training School and then a week of Aviation Medicine training before you end up back at Tamworth to begin flight training. Expect a month or two of ground school (aerodynamics, air law, meteorology, systems etc etc) before you get airborne in the CT4. At Tamworth you will cover basic flying, instrument flying, formation and nav. After Tamworth it is over to Pearce for PC9 conversion and the applied or military part of the course where you take the basics and turn it into, say, split RV formation, ToT, HiLo and all of that good gear. If successful, a senior officer will appear one day and pin Wings on your chest and then you retire to the Mess for Grad Ball and alcohol, pilots, for the consumption of. If posted to transport or maritime you'll be off to another base for conversion. If Posted to FJ's you will do a Hawk conversion with 79 SQN in Pearce, then head to 76 SQN in Willy to learn how to be a junior knuck on the Hawk and then to 2 OCU or 6 SQN for F/A-18 or F-111 conversion respectively. Pass that and then you start working your way up the category chain.

Simple really.

In terms of what you can do to become a FJ pilot, well, I fly Hercs, so I cannot tell you for sure, but:
1. Work hard on pilots course. You may be a natural, but if you are lazy they will hesitate before sending you there.
2. Be born with the right skills to be a FJ pilot.

All good gen there from Surditas.

Surditas, check ya PM's.

DA

Never give up
 

MASI,

I reckon one of the most important things to do throughout the recruit, pilots course process is to stay positive and never give up. Even when you're having a shocker in the seat.

It makes a difference to the perception that the instructors/testers are going to have of your conviction.

Plus if you don't end up at fast jets you can join the rest of us hauling trash around the planet. There are lots of ways to have fun in this mans Air Force.

:ok:

DA,

PM checked (as you can tell) :ok:

DRAGWA,

Ha, ha "Country Club". Know what you mean. I had three years down there flying the D.

RAAF Flight Screening
 

Hi,

I've got 3 weeks to go until I head up to Tamworth for Flight Screening. I'm trying to access all points of information and was wondering if any of you had suggestions, information and general knowledge about the whole process. The more detail the better :).

Also, there is the OSB at the end of it. Once again if you have any suggestions etc. That would be great!

Thanks so much for your advice.

Kind regards,
Hudang

Please check your PM's Hudang!

Hudang,

I am in the same boat as you and heading off to screening in few weeks myself. Any chance that you can post Karhu's info onto this thread. I have researched as much as possible thru the ADF website (fairly vague and non descript) and spoke to some serving pilots about what really goes on in Tamworth but it is still pretty vague. One guy called it a "bit of a holiday" and was just really happy that Tamworth had a Hungry Jacks. Helpful stuff ain't it!

Hope to see you down there and good luck.

cheers

Vic2

G'day guys,
Flight Screening is probably the most challenging thing you will have done at the age of 17+. It is certainly NOT a holiday, and if you treat it as such, i don;t expect you will pass.

Study is the biggest tip. Get in there and study as much as you can in the evenings or when not flying.

They don;t expect you to be a perfect pilot, they are looking for rate and ability to learn. They will generally demo a technique, then give you a go, then assess you on the next try. This happens for the entire two weeks.

You will fly both the CT4 and CAP10 (varying amounts depending on previous experience). Do not lie about your previous experience. Many people have been thrown off course for this in the past.

The CAP 10 is quite challenging as its a tail dragger, and quite difficult in the circuit. Once again, studying and knowing the parameters etc will hold you in good stead.

Try to enjoy yourself as much as possible. Sounds noddy, but the more you enjoy it, generally the better you will do.

Finally, have a positive attitude. You will find it challenging, but immensely rewarding.

Hope this helps.

RAAF Pilot/Officer Selection Info
 

Hi all.

I've passed all my initial aptitude testing for RAAF pilot and now have Psych, Officer Interview & Board left to get around.

Are there any forum users out there who have already been through these next steps and can offer some insight? If so it'd be great to hear from you.

Thanks in advance.

Regards, Karhu.

Anyone at all???

Sorry.............I haven't!

Good Luck tho!:ok:

Biggest tip: Be honest. Generally the Psych interviews are quite long, and often they will ask you the same question a number of times during the 2 hours+ but in a different way to see if you give the same answer, or are just telling them what you think they want to hear.

Second biggest tip: Be honest.
Third biggest tip: Be honest.

For the Board, make sure you know WHY you are applying for your particular specialisation, where you can be posted in that specialisation, and as many specifics about that specialisation as possible. Ie, if you want to fly fast jets, find out where they are based, what a typical day consists of, what progression you can expect, what your future looks like after flying (in terms of promotion etc). Be able to tell the board about a Hornet and Hawk, their armament, how many we have etc. It all shows just how interested and motivated you are. You don;t need to be an expert, just know a bit about it.

If you get thrown some curly questions by the board (and you will), take your time, don;t get stressed and work through it. They want to see how you handle pressure etc.

Other than that, relax.

Finally, the biggest tip: Don;t lie.

Hi Karhu..

I have passed these same tests.

Twice.

The first time I applied, there was only 4 of us out of the multitude that went into the office that day that actually were applying for aircrew - for all forces.

I was the only one that got through.

I know you know how stressful it is going in there and getting through the initial testing, and how damn good it feels when you get through it all.

I had my psych on the same day as all my initial testing, and I can tell you that it was probably the most nerve wracking of all the testing that I had to do that day. The reason being that it was a matter of one person's opinion, not on a standardised number of correctly answered (or indeed just answered) questions.

That was the thing that got me the most.

I was honest, and I will be now too. I don't have the best marks of a pilot applicant, and I am now 25 years old, and about to apply again this April/May. I want this like you wouldn't believe, and I can't possibly intimate to you how much this means to me via the horribly inadequate medium of words.

My advice is, as per above advice, is not only to be honest, but to be honest with yourself. There is a very real possibility that you may be waiting for some considerable time before you get a shot at FSP and Officer Board, so either don't let yourself lose focus, or make sure that there is nothing else that you could want more.

The psychs are there to make sure that you have not only the right motivation for wanting to be there, but are also there to make sure that the Defence Force isn't wasting time and money on people that they can be certain won't make it to the end.
I have heard the opinion that from the moment you walk through the door they are trying to make you fail, and in a sense, this is true.
They don't so much want you to fail, but to find the ones that they can tell will succeed.

If there is one thing that I have noticed in a very large way is that the attitude of those actually in the service is very very supportive of those that are trying for this profession, whereas the attitude of those in the recruiting sections is almost one of indifference.

But that is what they are there to do. They aren't there to pander to you, and gee you up when you feel you can't make it.

One last piece of advice. Talk to as many pilots as you can. They give you advice that is absolutely priceless and that will really give you the best idea of what you are about to undertake.
Depending on your location, it is fairly simple to get access to these guys and they are always happy to see someone else going for Pilot.

As you and I both know, this is the best job in the world.
I will not stop until I am allowed the privelige of wearing the wings, and I pray you don't either.

The very best of luck.

And if you do want to fly fast jets, study up on their tasks, where they are based and deployed etc. However, they may then show you a photo of a B707, and ask you all about them. So make sure you have an all-round knowledge.

Current affairs is also a big issue, especially when related to current conflicts, defence spending and the defence minister.

Don't bag any type of aircraft, for your interviewer may have flown (and loved) them. Once again, know why you want to join, and have an answer ready for why you don't want to join the airlines. You want to join the airlines in eight years? Keep that one to yourself - I've heard kids announce that pearl.

Find out about MDR - Mental Dead Reckoning. A good pilot instructor should be able to help you on that one. You may be asked a few aviation related mathematics problems, to see how you work under pressure. Your F-111 is being towed down the Amberley runway at 10kts, and is passing the 2000ft to go marker. Will it reach the turnoff at the end of the runway before the Hawk trainer which is 12 miles away doing 360knots flies overhead?
It might not be that exact question :uhoh: but you get the idea. (Don't take a calculator).

FTI,

I don't have any specific advice (you sound like you know what you're talking about anyway).

I just wanted to say good luck - with an attitude like that you sound like exactly the sort of person we need.

Don't worry too much about your marks, as long as you meet the minimum standard. Indeed, your academic results sound like they qualify you eminently to be an F-18 pilot! ;-)

SW

Thanks Swingwing..

Good thing that! That's what I am aiming for!!!!
:p :confused:

If you have any further advice for me, I would cherish any possible piece that I could get my hands on.

Please feel free to get me on the PM's if you would have anything that isn't possible to post here. :)

I'll second the sentiments of FTI, SwingWing. If you have any extra info it'd be great to hear from you here or via PM.

Regards,

Karhu

Karhu

As what most people have said the biggest way around the psyc is honesty!, honesty! honesty!. Thats there job, to weed out the ones who are insecure and are willing to lie. But you wil probably have noticed that there is more to the interviews than just the psyc theres also the knowledge and maths. Good tip for mutiplications.. Say 14 x 13...mutiply the 4X3 if theres any remainders then add that on to the total of 4+3 and add the first digits. So.. 4X3 = 12..3+4+1(carry the ten remainder)=8 and 1+1 =1 so equals 182..Sorry if im confusing you it took me a while to figure it as well but it takes the pressure of things. Also if you get in to say flight screening be careful, your always been watched! Try to be cool and don't be the odd one out! Also as what happened to me, the psyc had a real go at me for only being 17 and what I was doing away from my mum! But whateva you do don't let it get to you, even if you have the urge to kick his ass after the interview, it's all part of the deal.

Good luck

Bodie

Unless interviewees are expected to know the length of the runway at Amberley then they wouldn`t be asked that question !

FFP,

if they are asked that question its to see how they go about the answer; sometimes they just want you to say 'I dont know'.

Its amazing how many people will try and answer it though!

"even if you have the urge to kick his ass after the interview, it's all part of the deal."

I would have given anything to have a guy interview me. (No offence to the ladies out there)

I had one of the cutest RAAF chicks you could possibly imagine. I was like...."sooooo hot. sooooo verrrry verrrry hot. Oh, you asked me a question? Sorry drifted off there for a second."

Well, it was not that bad but you get the point!

With any luck I will be flying on the wing of your Hornet in a few years time.


Also, to any RAAF guys out there, will prior service help my cause? I am joining the reserves and I don't know if I should sign up as a Medical assistant or an Officer. Any ideas?

Yes I agree with Mr ftrplt, don't be afraid to say "I don't know", but don't say it too much, as it voids the purpose of the interview.

FFP, If you are passing the 2000ft to go marker, the length of the runway behind you is neither here nor there.

Mr McKenzie, if you can't spell Adelaide correctly, please don't pass out my prescriptions. I'd rather you become an Officer and let someone else sort out your syntax errors ;)

As for mathematics preparation, "one in sixty's" are good to learn about, as are some figures relating to Miles per Minute when expressed in Knots. Any problems feel free to PM me.

"Mr McKenzie, if you can't spell Adelaide correctly, please don't pass out my prescriptions. I'd rather you become an Officer and let someone else sort out your syntax errors"

Sorry dude, I ALWAYS misspell Adel'a'ide like that. I think I try to type faster than I actually should. Believe me, its not dyslexia. (I hope)

Did I mention I was going to join the RAFA and with any luck fly the A/F-18? :D

HA! Good to see you have a sense of humour.
Just be careful punching in the co-ordinates of your targets.