Ahh cheers guys, that was niggling on my mind quite a bit. I guess I'll just have to see what happens, but at least I know it might not be an outright 'no'.

Ant

I didn't say he was a blunt, merely 'blunt-minded'. I felt the pompous tone of his reply to Mark_86's first post was totally inappropriate. Guys like Mark_86 who are obviously keen to take on a RAAF career should be encouraged, not cut down by being labelled 'lazy and inattentive to detail'.

Fair enough.
I guess the point is to make sure he gives himself the best chance of making a good impression with whatever communication he has with the hirers and firers, and that may as well start with requests for information and support in places like this.

Fair point, but I think there are more positive ways of getting that kind of message across.

Buzzbox

Anyone having your attitude need not apply. Perhaps you were one of my failures.

Having been on selection boards and been on rare occasions a party to some bad selections having dire and tragic consequences, be assured that the RAAF will continue to take great care with its selections of those who are to handle its enormously expensive and potent assets.

My advice to Mark 86 was to have him smooth off his rough edges evident in his posts if he is to have any chance of succeeding. His eagerness is a big plus but he leaves me concerned about the quality of his education.

Bet this is the first time you've been called a baby boomer, Milt.:) (For those not aware of Milt's background, he was flying P51s in Korea when most of us baby boomers were still learning to suck our dummies.)

Mark 86, at a guess, I'd say your application is in limbo most probably because someone has put it aside because they're hoping to give you a go because you've shown obvious application by going back to night school etc... but in some other area, your application falls short.

Having spent some of my time in the RAAF perusing applications for aircrew positions, I was constantly amazed at the lack of care taken in the presentation of their application by some applicants. An old rule of thumb, very difficult to do in this age of instant emails, is to stick anything you write in the top drawer and re-read it next morning before sending it in. Even better, have your secretaty/wife/a colleague to scan it before you send it in - and if they query ANY point that YOU think is clear, it's not, so re-write it.

Good luck with your application. If it's what you want to do, it's worth pursuing.

Milt

No, I wasn't. As a matter of fact I had a very successful career in the RAAF, which included several flying postings of my choice, a QFI course, representational duties in a very visible post, early promotion to SQNLDR and a 'gong' in the Australia Day honours list some years back.

I take your point - I am well aware of the need for attention to detail in any flying related activity. Nevertheless, I still feel the tone of your 'advice' to Mark_86 was inappropriate.

BuzzBox

OK now 'ops normal' and well done. Did you fly my babies?

I lay claim to being the midwife for every F-111C in that I made a point of attending for their first signs of life as each was energised electrically. Self destructed in the job when I managed to get the last one through Honolulu.

Meanwhile Mark 86 has made contact seperately. I may be able to give him some help with a reference.

Alas, no.

I apologise for my earlier outburst. Glad to hear Mark_86 has been in touch.

(Wiley) - Thank you for the reply.

As per your post - I don't believe my old Resume (which was handed in on my JOES Day two to three years ago) was really up to scratch. As "Milt" has clearly (and rightly) indicated, my grammer skills are in dire need of attention - so I think you could only imagine what they were like two to three years ago.

Hopefully this hasn't affected my application too much though.

I think by now it is quite obvious that this is something that I really want to achieve. So let it be known - I do appreciate all the input everyone has given, it really means alot.

As for my testing,Resume,documentation etc... which I have completed and handed in so far - there is nothing I can do about that now, it's in the past.

What I can do however, is ensure that when/if I get to Flight Screening I do as best as I possibly can in order to make up for earlier discrepancies - and hopefully get a position at Pilots Course.

Once again, if anyone has any more advice on how I can get my application moving along any faster, please let me know.

Regards,

Mark_86

I'm hardly a wealth of information but I would be interested to find out how you are getting on with your plans to join the RAAF, theedmancometh?

The reason I ask is that I am in a similar(ish) boat to yourself as a NZer with designs on joining the RAAF. For myself it has taken 4+ years of planning and work to get myself in a position to apply for a Permanent Residency Visa, of which I have 38 weeks left to go until I am eligible to do so. In this final year I am focusing on preparing for aptitude/fitness tests, as well as learning as much about the RAAF as I possibly can.

Although these forums and others have been a fantastic source of information about the recruitment process, it would probably we wise to speak to a recruitment officer sooner rather than later. I had intended to head back over to the West Island later this year, and it would probably be smart to arrange something beforehand. Is there any way to contact ADF recruiters from overseas?

I'm quite happy to share my progress on the process for others who are interested, however you wont hear much from me for 38 weeks until I reach the 1st hurdle. In the meantime, however, feel free to PM me theedmancometh if you want to compare notes on the whole affair.

I'll send you a PM shortly

Hi all,

Today I found out I have been selected for a Pilot Selection Agency course - 26th July. The whole process started over 8 months ago back in November!

As I'm 27 I really don't feel age is much of a factor at all. It has never been mentioned during the whole process and is I think a bit dated. Possibly more related to aptitude to learn new skills.

I started flying when I turned 15 but personal circumstances meant I couldn't really pursue the career until now. I haven't flown since 2001 but I love flying and can't really see that as a barrier.

Will now spend the next 3 weeks getting as much information as possible, and preparing; I've been jogging a fair bit, and just going over all the basics.

Anyone else found out they are in the July 26 program? Swap preparation advice?

What really helped me get this far was a phone call to an actual pilot in the air force - Flight Lieutenant Steven English. He helped me understand amongst other things leadership opportunities as a pilot and other duties pilots may perform whilst on base. I.E. Safety Officer, General Social Activities Officer. Leadership example: Finding a potential safety hazard and referring it to a commanding officer, or working out a safer way or a more efficient way to conduct a certain task.

Good Luck

Cheers, Joel.

Hi edman,

Between high school and applying:
Basically after high school I was put in a situation where I couldn't leave Sydney (other family member medically related reasons) until 2004. I was also quite financially limited at this point as well due to more or less the same reason.

This isn't the first time I have applied !

First was in 1999 I applied for ADFA. Failed at the interview stage - Unknown; possibly age. Was asked to come back.
Came back in 2005. Failed due to motivation - reasons for applying - general knowledge. Asked to reapply in 6 months.
Reapplied 2007. Through to PSA!

My advice - Keep applying until you get in if thats what you really want to do. I heard of someone who was successful after 5 attempts!

They will question my motivation. I will be preparing that the most. I know my own motivation is strong, but explaining it out may be difficult. My constant reapplying might show motivation. Explaining my choices will be hard but maybe my flying aptitude will cut me some slack !

I have approximately 60 hrs all accrued before 2002 which means Ill be assessed with people who have never flown; "Band 1" inexperienced. Which may or may not work in my favour. I think I would be okay in the advanced stream but I'm happy to be in the beginner stream.

My preferences. Air force; Navy; Army.
To be honest I would be happy flying in any service.

Cheers
Joel.

Man this thread is useful. Im currently in the process, still have to set an assessment day date. I found the JOES day testing to be not too challenging, while the pilot specific testing I found hard. During the fuel/distance/time calculations I thought I had failed, but allas I passed. Im quite concerned about the whole life expirience, considering im still in grade 12, but anyway, the AAFC bulletin has some great info on pilot specific testing.

oh and there is a certain amount of study you can do for pilot specific testing, as the recruiters will tell you you cannot study. Example, try the New Zealand Air Force recruiting, they provide some practice questions.:)

RAAF Flight Screening Program
 

Hi guys,

(Being my first post, please redirect me if I'm posting incorrectly).

Basically I began my process in December last year, had no problems with the tests. Unfortunately my file was sitting on someone's desk at DFR for the last 4 months or so, rather than being sent off to the PSA.:bored:

Cut a long story short, at short notice I got informed of being panelled for the FSP next week.

Because I didn't hear ANYTHING from the ADF/DFR (not even a letter acknowledging being recommended to FSP, etc) I just assumed I wasn't a cut above the rest, so I hadn't had any flights or kept up the studying.

So in the last 10 days or so, I've been studying my tits off
(found this really helpful:FAA - Pilot's Handbook of Aeronautical Knowledge )
and trying to book for instructional flights has not been easy - apparently it's a really busy time to be flying, and was told I should be booking about a month in advance...

I've only had one 40 minute instructed flight in a cessna 152, but I LOVED IT!! I am seethingly jealous of every pilot, esp RAAF pilots, out there!!! You guys get to do THIS for a living?!!

My background is in veterinary surgery - lecturing and reasearching at 2 different universities after a short time in private practice. I think I've been placed in a good position - I've seen plenty of arrogant and cocky people as well as those that cannot work in a team, and saw my fair share of good and bad leaders. This motivated me to seek a good team working environment that was professional and dedicated, as well as requiring enormous amounts of physical and mental skills (ie, the military)
It also taught me to multi task, work under pressure, with lots of warning sensors/sirens going off, etc.
I am hoping these qualities are things that are useful in a miltary piloting setting.

Anyhoot, my questions are in regards to the FSP at the BAE systems in Tamworth:

1. Are candidates with little to no flying experience more likely to fail the course?

2. Does previous flying experience REALLY get compensated for? (esp if you have none to little??? Or is this an urban myth?)

3. What are the roles of the military pilot? (I gather there are lots of paper work roles, being an officer position and all?)

4. Although I'm due to fly out for Tamworth in 6 days time, should I cancel, in the hope of obtaining a later date? I accepted this originally feeling that the FSP is a test of potential, and although you could get several hours in the air, if I'm a dud, I wouldn't want to disguise it and try and "sneak" past the ADF. I gather the RAAF OSB people do this day in and day out, so they would pick out good from bad...?

5. I'm not sure how different the Warriors or Cessna's are to the FSP's CT4B Parrots and CAP10's... Is there any point in trying to find someone that could fly me up at such short notice?

6. can anyone recommend any flying centers in Sydney? (I've been going to Bankstown airport)

And any further tips/hints/info on the OSB would be greatly greatly appreciated!! :ok:

Thank you in advance, and apologies for an epic novel of a first post :O

Cheers,

Dan.

Hi Ninja,
Well done on getting to FSP.
I applied in dec last yr too, and got into the 26 July FSP.

I can't really answer any of your questions as I havnt actually done the FSP - only to say - the course is designed for both people who have flying experience and people who do not. Since there will only be about 7 people in the course with you it is safe to say they will tailor it to your level and get a very good idea of how successful you will be during the initial training.

They actually advised me not to do any flying at all until the FSP, so now I won't be.

Theory wise, military flying is different to civilian so apart from general aeronautical knowledge, studying the FAA texts may not be extremely important, but I would say the more study the better.

Good Luck, Maybe Ill see you at East Sale or BFTS!

Joel.

PS Read the thread in this forum started by HornetBoy. A lot of useful information there!

Firstly congrats on your acceptance.

1. & 2. The people most likely to fail are those who aren't prepared to put in the effort required to pass the course because they think they know it all or because they are too lazy to try and do it the way the ADF wants them to. Previous flying experience can be both a help and a hindrence. Don't concern yourself with it. Concern yourself with listening to your instructors and doing as they tell you. I didn't have any experience to speak of when I went through and the people who were suspended first on my course were those who boasted a few hundred hours. With your study, if you can get a copy of the PAARM (the ADF coverall reference) that may help a little.

3. & 4. This concerned me a little mate. If you are only 6 days from the FSP an you haven't got a firm grip on at least some of the roles you may be directed toward you should probably get onto the ADF websites and talk directly to ADF pers in the jobs. Some people on here have opinions based on theories and impression not fact so talk to a face if you can. I do not mean to say that there is not a wealth of knowledge and experience here but when you don't know any better it may be hard to decipher the current situation from other less accurate points of view. Go visit a base if available. I won't espouse opinions on roles, I'll leave that to others.

The rest. Don't worry too much about 'catching up', it is a screening process not the actual course. Prepare yourself by figuring out why you want to be a military pilot because ultimately that is what will be the motivation you are going to need to pass the actual (a quite a full on) course.

Good luck with it, it will be as rewarding as you make it.

TW

Ninjadan-

Qs-
1 -No more likely than the ones with experience
2- Yes
3- Have a trawl through RAAF/ARMY and Navy.gov.au websites
4- Enthusiasm and a genuine passion for military flying will get you a long way
5- Lots different
6- Sorry can't help with that one

Good luck!!:ok:

theedmancometh,

Cheers it really is a great wealth of knowledge and should be kept on the first page:ok:. You are correct in that it is a YOU session now, but on the letter I recieved it was called a JOES session still (had mine around 2 months ago). No interviews yet I have some on assessment day. Yeh you can deffinantly study, I recieved a comprehensive list of questions for assessment day, I just figured I would add the information about the pilot specific as it seems that is where a lot of people are held up.

cheers from the guy with the hat

Wannabe RAAF Pilots

As a former RAAF/RAF test pilot I occasionally had the task of assessing aircraft crew stations particularly cockpits/flight decks of newly designed aircraft to ensure that there was conformation with what we called the "Standard Man".

This involved the Standard Man's reach and manual dexterity around a crew station and his ability to handle all of the flight control forces, operating levers, switches and the like. One's ability to hold full rudder in a heavy with an engine out often determines your personal minimum control speed.

Consequently I am keen to know whether the recruiters examine you physically to determine how much you might deviate from the standard. There are limits of acceptability and I understand that the RAAF is doing a survey to determine how a standard Australian conforms with the present fleet of aircraft.

Gday guys,

Sorry about re-inventing the wheel with my other thread. I hadn't seen this thread before I posted it, so apologies for my guilty case of premature e-threadication. :mad:

I'm about to undergo the FSP course in about 5 days. Yes, I'm nervous, but the sheer thought of essentially receiving one-on-one flight tutorials with Australian aviation's best is just a real buzz. :ok:

Tomorrow I'm heading to Red Baron flight aerobatics for a one hour session - it ain't cheap (about $450), but I have heard so many people (several had gone through FSP) recommend this, I thought I'd give it a last second dash.

Was just curious about the course:

Do you do PT whilst you are there?
Are you tested in rotary wing (eg gyro's)?

I realise this question is going to sound whimpy, but I'm gonna ask it - are the rooms heated? I have heard that Tamworth is colder than a kiss from my mother in law this time of year :ouch: Should I take a mini heater/electric blanket? I feel the cold really badly (no body fat) and have pulled out the old thermal undies...:bored: (...and sox, and skivvy, and gloves...)

Also, have people been taking their laptops? (only because alot of my research/study notes/documents are on it)...
Or have most candidates found that there is no time other than studying for your flights?

Cheers,

Dan.

Thanks everyone.

It's not that I've been ignorant or lazy - I had done my homework a while ago at the start of the process, but never really found an outright statment regarding the primary and secondary roles of pilots in text. But all good now ;)

Yup, although it scares me a little that I feel I haven't had enough flight time or study time, just the thought of going up in the air with RAAF guys is a phenomenal buzz that I really relish. I can't wait!!!

I've just found out about the other RAAF-pilot-wannabe thread (hehe), so I will continue to post on there from here on in.

Cheers everyone.

Sincerely appreciated. :ok:

Dan.

Good on you, Dan - you seem to be very well motivated and have a clue or two, factors which are half the battle.
As has been mentioned above, previous flying experience doesn't necessarily translate to success on RAAF pilot courses, and can sometimes cause hiccups due to the need to 'unlearn' undesirable habits, and possible overconfidence.
There can also be a tendency for significant previous experience to mask learning difficulties until the less familiar parts of the course come up (eg formation, low tactical navigation etc), at which point some people come unstuck.
Just approach it with quiet confidence and you'll most likely be fine.
For what it's worth, I started out in the RAAF as an 18 year old with lots of interest in flying but negligible practical experience (apart from aeromodelling) due to coming from a family not exactly flush for cash, but got through without too many dramas and went on to a reasonably long flying career in the service, so I know it can be done. Lots of other people have too.

Thanks Arm out the Window. Are you allowed to fly like that? :p

I took a one hour aerobatics flight with Red Barons flights today... WOW.
Sure, it may have bruised me financially (one hour cost ~$400) I am SOOOO glad I did this before going - IMO worth every cent. The people were really nice and very understaning - I squeezed in at the last minute, and they were very accomodating in this regard. I had Keith Kur as my instructor, and he was a fantastic tutor/instructor.
We covered (and I performed) taxiing, take offs, levels flights, aileron rolls, loops, loop-roll combinations, mid flight stalls, cuircuiting and landing (which I got! yeah!!!)
Sorry to sound like an arrogant bastard / boasting... i think I'm still on a buzz/high from the ride. It certainly has made me more aware and more confident internally, and now have an idea of what to expect with various manoeuvers and the G-forces associated with them.
If you are about to undertake the OSB, and haven't done so already, I would strongly advise you fork out a few hundred bucks and at least get up there for some get-used-to flying.
If you're in Sydney/Bankstown area, head to www.redbaron.com.au
Sorry to sound like a commercial plug, but the guys at Barons were really great. If i had more time (or rather, if they had more slots available this week) I would do some more, for sure!

After speaking to several people (RAAFies/Navy and instructors) I have received mixed views on whether as a RAAF pilot you are pilot first and officer second or officer first and pilot second.
I know it doesn't sound like abig issue, but I wanted to be sure/correct before going in to OSB. Just in case.


Oh yeah, and if you are going to strap yourself in to the seat tight (ie, aerobatics) make sure you do NOT have your wallet in your rear pockets. I couldn't feel my right leg/thigh/knee/toes after 15 minutes from take off :O

Hey ED,

I had the YOU day with basic aptitude that everyone goes through, then had the Pilot Specific several weeks later which was only the harder aptitude tests and coordination tests. All of my interviews are on the assessment day coming up. Hope this clears things up,

the hat guy

G'day Milt,

From what I can gather (correct me if I'm wrong) you are asking whether the RAAF test for ones strength and dexterity to be able to control the aircraft? So far they have not done this for me, and as far as I am aware do not do it at all during testing to determine ones suitability to join the RAAF.

Cheers from the hat guy

Hey ED,

200! Must be my lucky number:ok:. As for the time between tests, it is up to you really. For me, and I can only assume everyone else, they simply offer you the dates available in the next couple of months and let you choose it at your will.

Cheers

The Hat Guy

Sorry I gave you the wrong impression re pilot leg strength. Reference to being able to apply rudder in an engine out case was just one facet for consideration.

I heartell the RAAF is conducting a survey of all typical Australians who qualify or want to qualify as aircrew to determine how they may best fit into the crew stations of the current and probably the future fleet having now been through the design/build phase.

When I was doing cockpit assessments I think the measure was reference a standard American/European man.

There may not be much difference.

Thanks!
 

Thanks dmcleod.

Some good tips there ! (...the white board, hey...:E)

Mmm.... I hate to admit it but it was only recently after speaking to several pilots and ex pilots that the consideration of other services (other than RAAF) has sunk in...:O

So, although I feel it's a bit late for me to change all my preferences to 5 (... because they will no doubt discern that I know about the RAAF but have little information about the Navy/Army...) should I still do this at OSB?
I.e., would putting 5 down for the other 2 services still increase my chances of getting offered any pilot role...? Or make me look unprepared for having chosen those preferences but not knowing enough about them?

NINJADAN.....

Sorry I didn't answer your preferences questions in the msg I sent.

When I arrived I had my preferences at RAAF:5, ARMY:3, NAVY:1.

I was told what I told you. It doesn't matter to change it whilst your there but you must know things about all 3 services, which isn't hard I didn't know much about Army/Navy (because these are helicopters, all I was interested in is fixed wing). I studied these 2 whilst there.

The Navy will give you a service brief to try and sway you to them. He will tell you (should be lieutenant Kidd) that you can change your preferences. All you need to do is go to the PSA building (through the sim door, its a little portable building) and ask them to change them for you. Also when you go to sit your OSB interview the Wing Commander will ask you if you would like them changed.

Very confusing information indeed ED. Some say you d it at the pilot specific testing, but this didn't happen for me. Therefore I am assuming it depends on your recruiting center, but don't take my word for it, I wouldn't.

The hat guy

do they give u uniforms during flight screening?

They give you a silly looking orange jump suit to fly in.

I am not an A level or newly graduated entrant - I graduated over 2 years ago and have been making my way in the big wide world so I have plenty of 9 til 5 to keep me occupied!

The AFCO interview went well - the officer said it is normal for peoples "extra-curricular" interests to drop off after uni, but seeing as I have taken up whitewater and slalom kayaking, running and downhill/cross country mountain biking, the reverse was true.

To be honest, a 4 month wait is fine by me - I would relish the extra time to get fitter.

I had a quick scan through this thread and couldn't find anything relating to this:

"What are the roles of a Sergeant WSOp?"

I understand the roles of a WSOp, but what would my role as a sergeant involve?

Any info would be greatly appreciated... Cheers. :)

Before anyone else jumps in, smart question.

A non-aircrew sgt in the RAF will have served possibly 12 years with maybe 5 years as a cpl. A corporal is seen as the first step in management and a competent cpl is worth more than a new flying officer. It follows that a sgt is hugely competent in his job. That, as an aircrew sgt aged 20, is what you must measure up against. In short, there is no contest.

Never-the-less, in terms of command and control in the wider air force you will wear your 3 stripes and have all the powers of command and discipline comsensurate with your rank. Awesome.

At Cranwell you will find yourself as orderly sergeant and the front man on the whole station during your 24 hr duty. You may be a guard commander and responsible for a number of armed guards.

You will be senior to any ground trade corporal but initially you will know next to nothing. You must be open to advice and guidance from subordinates.

However you will largey be sheltered and mentored by your fellow aircrew. They will be sympathetic and help you.

I will leave it to others nearer the coal face to elaborate.

Final question for you, why not go for a commission and pilot?

You might want to consider adding a team sport/activity or two!

Hi, is there anyone here who knows anything about New Zealand's military flight screening and pilot testing? If so please PM.

Cheers

Hi Everyone,

I will be attending the Flight Screening Course starting 24 November and ending 6 December. My flight hours are minimal (and aren't recent!) so I will be flying in the basic stream. It will no doubt be a great experience.

I've trawled through these forums and around the WWW but I haven't found much information regarding the actual flying undertaken whilst on course. I understand the first 7 basic course flights are in the CT-4B and the final 3 in the CAP-10. What are the main differences between flying these aircraft (other than ground handling with the CAP-10's tail-wheel) and is the transition between them difficult?

Do the instructor's assume nil flight experience on the basic course? How quickly does the course progress (i.e. do you get to stalls, steep turns, spins, inverted flight, etc.?)?

Any feedback would be well appreciated.

Thanks,

Rory

P.S. Is there anyone else out there attending the same course (24 November - 6 December)?