MT RANT
 

I've been out of the RAF for 10 years. Talking to an ageing Sqn Ldr today, was a bit taken aback by the apparent loss of status of serving officers. He used an MT car for a journey to the dunker at Yeovilton, leaving home at 4am. Returned to base mid afternoon, refilled with fuel (why?) and took the car back to MT. An hour later he received a call from MT asking why he hadn't washed the car before returning it. Is it me?

Who is supposed to clean the car then?

If he has an FMT600 (must have to have a service vehicle) then he must had read MT orders which state "all vehicles must be returned to MT refuelled and cleaned". Of course everybody reads MT orders before signing they have don't they?

Only one person on a station has an automatic right to someone else cleaning his vehicle for him and when he drives around there is a little flag on the front.

Erm, common courtesy perhaps...? Something wrong with giving the car back the way you picked it up...? What does his rank have to do with anything? Or is washing a car below someone holding a queen's commission... :hmm:

Do pilots wash their aircraft when they've landed? I don't think so. What's the difference? (OK, did sometimes after an SH detachment if the techs were still en-route, but not as a rule).

"What does his rank have to do with anything? Or is washing a car below someone holding a queen's commission... "

Quite frankly, yes!
Or at least it bl@@dy should do.
"Rank hath its priveliges" unfortunately is no longer true in todays Britain.
Unfortunately now rank only has the responsibilities and none of the Perks. No wonder everybody gets disillusioned and leaves.
If you don't want to wash cars for officers, you should have to get some ambition and get promoted!

Erm... No, our aircraft get washed every 35 days IAW the Aircraft Maintenance Manual, by the aircraft wash team... Next unrelated comment...?

Oh grow up please... It's people like you that make us Junior Ranks despise officers... Give me one reason you shouldn't have to wash a car that you've gotten dirty...

The adage used to be 'rank hath it's priviledges'. Being a lesser being meant that more mundane work was done by the underlings. I doubt that an Army Major would consder washing his vehicle - his 'man' would do it for him. I do stand to be corrected on that!

No idea, but this isn't the Army... If you like the idea of having your 'underlings' do all your dirty work for you, maybe you should have joined them...

Perhaps that sort of approach worked a bit better when the officer/OR balance was a bit more triangle shape but please do tell me again, whats the ratio of officers to airmen in Her Majesties (ever so modern) Royal Air Force?

Perhaps one of the lads can clean the car after he's finished doing his fifth period of guard of the year, shortly before he goes off to Afghanistan but not before he pushes a couple of shifts on the recently LEANed AEF.

Anyway, none of our commissioned brethren have answered the question. If he's used an MT vehicle he must have signed MT orders, by not returning the vehicle washed he is in violation of MT orders is this not so?

Perhaps its like one of those high spirits/blatant vandalism things.

Maybe not, but an Army pilot washes his own aircraft! Professional pride.:rolleyes:

Car Wash?
 

Not a problem here!! Those lovely chaps at Lex just bung the car through the car wash! The MT here, run by a contractor is easily the best I've come accross in 20 years in the mob. If its frosty they warm the car up prior to pick up and also let you have the car the night before a journey to save you coming in 'specially to pick up the wagon....bloomin' marvelous!:ok:

Phew - I was beginning to think I was the only one fighting the cause here...:D

No 'cause fighting' going on, just a statement of fact. MT orders demanding cars being cleaned really aren't necessary in this age of 'customer satisfaction'. All sounds a bit out dated really......Lex are providing a service, and a good one at that.....

Simple efficiency.
Sqn Ldr earns (very) approx £50 per hour actually worked each day
20 mins to wash car = £17

Junior Rank earns approx £10 per hour
20 mins to wash car £3

Same reason that large multinationals used to fly their execs on Concorde
It saved them money because it saved their very expensive time

What's the problem? Don't all MT yards have a vehicle wash? Just drive in dirty and drive out clean then return car to MT!! It's not difficult. Even better, next time ensure you get a hire car. As stated Lex do a great line in cleaning.

Or the MT Officer could negotiate a volume discount rate with the local drive-through car-wash, and give each driver a wash token on collecting the vehicle. My local is £3.00, but I bet for 100/month they'd come down to £2.00 :ok:

I presume that the "customer" of the MT section has to carry our any major service that becomes due whilst he has the car out!

Time to offload MT and have the cars supplied by one of the hire firms -probably at a reduced cost. They would set up a facility on base, prep the cars and:ok: have them serviced.

I'll tell you what - I'll wash an MT car when you go and get shot at in Iraq. How about that. What next - do I have to do the washing up after my meal in the mess? How about you do your job, I'll do mine.

Does the RAF reimburse the cost of a car wash as well as the cost of the refuel? If so, then there is not a great problem in putting the car through the automatic car wash at the garage at the same time as refuelling it.

Otherwise, was there an automatic car wash available at MT? If not, then did MT provide the facilities to wash the car, including the changing room for the Sqn Ldr to change into overalls prior to washing the car? If MT do not provide the tools and the facilities to enable the car washer to keep his uniform clean, then they cannot expect the order to be complied with.

I understand that new regulations to come in this year require you to get the car serviced and taxed as well. (Bugga someone got there first) Additionally, for those using train or air transportation, you are required to sweep your seats clear food trays away and empty the bins before you leave the train/plane.
I cannot believe that this regulation is in force. I have never ever washed a hire car and that is what it is .....a hire car. If we are going to apply commercial practices to support services then commercial service is what is expected. The FMT regulations are outdated and hark back to when we had proper MT vehicles. This car was obviously part of the LEX contract. The person who wrote that contract or the bod responsible for MT orders obviously needs a kick up the harris. All that is required is that you refuel the car and dont dent it!

If said Sqn Ldr was so bothered about his uniform and so incapable of keeping himself dry whilst washing his car, then yes, perhaps he should wear overalls... Generally I find the standing upwind helps keep me dry when I'm washing my car...

OverTq, Tourist,
I hope this is a wind up as I thought all dinosaurs were extinct in our expeditionary Air Force.....a bit of councelling from a rough ar$e SNCO is in order with that attitude.

Theboywide "I'll tell you what - I'll wash an MT car when you go and get shot at in Iraq. How about that. What next - do I have to do the washing up after my meal in the mess? How about you do your job, I'll do mine."

Bin shot at in NI more times than I care to remember. This Sqn Ldr had just done a 10 hr day - 350 mile round trip - including being beasted by the Navy in the dunker while the MT laddos were sitting in their armchairs reading (I suppose) the Sun. Why shouldn't they do the job?

It is not about being Dinosaurs, I have every sympathy with this person regardless of rank. We are being given a commercial service and therefore commercial levels of customer care should also be applied!
You are not expected to clean your office, there is a contractor to do it, this equally applies to your hire car. I would be interested to know if MT on the unit in question were Service or Civilian Contractor. If contractor then F%%% em!

maybe im getting the wrong perspective on this thread, its not about the rank of who was washing the car, but really more about the fact that the car had to be washed. If the MT section provided adequate washing facilities then it wouldnt be so bad, however in my experience the facilities provided are very poor, certainly not up to the standard of the local BP station, and what should be a quick 10 minutes in a car wash and a tidy up inside, turns into an hour of trying to find correct cleaning equipment and enough water to wash the vehicle. Like most things in this mans Air Farce, tools are not good enough to do the required job and facilities scarce.
D-F

Wedge....thin end of!!!

Twisted 12 incher

Without wanting to spread into other areas of discussion, where on earth are you going to find a decent hairy @rsed stoker equivalent SNCO in the Crabs!

Your lot couldn't scare my daughter!

..........and expeditionary.............don't get me started!
If there is a 5* hotel there, it aint an expedition. A safari at most.

The Helpful Stacker . Isn't your title an oxymoron?

Numerous officers here use MT cars every day. They are delivered to their OMQ/ Mess, collected at the end of the day, refuelled and washed. They, like said Sqn Ldr will have signed all the orders, so it's not just 'the one with the flag on front'

How refreshing
 

to see our RAF collegues squabbling over such a serious issue..............oh dear.............

Tradition Out of the Window
 

Seems to me that this thread is about empires and them and us!! RAF Techie, did some Officer b#llock you recently, because you seem to have scant dis-regard of rank. A senior officer doing manual labour in by gone days would of been laughed at, and a yound LAC techie would of been tasked. The days when a officer had all the perks have long since gone. We now have Mess accommadation which is worse than the Airmens/Airwomens (to be PC), more responsibility (maybe not aircrew) and what thanks do we get. Some person who should of had ambition at school, griping that officers should do it themselves. If you want to see what life is like on the otherside then go to the commissing club, otherwise wind it in. Tourist, I refer you back to other threads where if you would like your aircrew tired whilst flying you about then by all means put us in tents. Then you would have to deal with every now and then losing a few hundred soldiers. Alternately you could have well rested aircrew to get you home safely to your loved ones.

Back to the thread, let LEX clean them, its their car, and what happens if you damage it going through a car wash, do you pay?? or would MT put it down to natural wear and tear??

Best get my cheque book then!!:{

If MT orders state that all vehicles should be washed by the driver then so they should be.

If MT orders gave a caveat for sqn ldrs not to wash vehicles that would be fine.

But they dont.

Orders should be followed - thats what they are there for

If they are bolleaux - they should be changed.

Unless you've required my services in the past you wouldn't know. Not all stackesr say "you're not entitled" you know?

There is a solution to this though. If the journey is of sufficient millage, you didn't gain your driving licence through the forces and the course is tiring enough then you could also tick 'driver required' on the FMT1000 (I think thats what they are now days).

MT drivers are there to drive. If they drive they clean the car.

Erm Rogue......?
I am aircrew......?

Am quite sure that MT orders at Odiham state that Officers and WOs do not have to refuel or clean vehicles prior to returning them to MT? In fact seem to recall the MTO sent out an e-mail to this effect fairly recently. Obviously different Stations different policy!

Rogue

Nope, no bollocking, i just hate the whole 'I'm better than you, therefor you should do my work for me' attitude exhibited by this officer. There really is no reason why he shouldn't have to clean a car he got dirty himself, regardless of rank (which in the grand scheme of things isn't so high...)

Techie,

There is ABSOLUTELY a reason why he should not clean the car.....ITS A HIRE CAR!!!!

If the MT orders state that it is to be cleaned by the hirer, then the orders should be changed.

RAF Techie 101. Why can you not accept that some ARE better than you. This guy has spent 30 going all over the world for King and Country. Has spent several of those 30 years away from home. Been posted to all sorts of dodgy places (certainly more dodgy than Kinloss). Aquired thousands of flying hours in various types of dodgy aircraft in (literally) dozens of countries. On this particular day (as I mentioned before) he'd been up since crack of sparrows. Is it asking too much that when he does get back to base, he can just drop the bloody car off at MT?!

RAF Techie 101 PS. I wish that when I was in the mob I had a job where I could spend most of the day reacting to posts on forums like this. Sadly, I was too busy working!