Waddington airshow
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A few years ago the Yanks came out with a suit with sewn-in creases and pleats at the waist. Although johnny public may have thought them spiffy, the boys soon dubbed them f@g bags. Needless to say, they didn't last long and now swamp the surplus stores.
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Reading the thread I get the impression that non-issue sunglasses are the root of all evil - why? This was always the case, even when the RAF had more than 5 Canberrsa and many exotic places to fly them to - same with bondo boots, shreddies and the black shoes (used to wear black Doc Martens as did around 90% of ground crew in those days.) Did anybody check to see if regulation drawers cellular were being worn?
And the wearing of flying suits in *public* . . . that was always the case as well. Although they were a tasteful blue in those days, not covered in *zaps* and worn with a peaked cap.
Nothing really changes does it, just the colour of the kit and where zaps are stuck - used to be the kites!
Regarding the perceptions of the public however, that's a different kettle of things. DamienB, Seafuryfan and others have said the the public (at RAF airshows) either doesn't give a toss or that they are generally uninformed or that the *relaxed* look is beneficial. In their world this may be the case, but at Waddo, a goodly percentage of that *public* were ex-RAF (or other service) - and all these guys would have *cared* I bet. Talked with several *Cranwell* types and found them pleasant blokes, and quite friendly and talkative when they found out I, and others, were ex-mob. No *scruffiness* apparent either.
I saw, met and talked with many, many older guys at Waddo though, confess to being one of them myself. A surprising number of people at such shows are there for a nostalgia trip. For example, at the Canberra Assoc enclosure a great many ex-CanMen of all ranks up to ex-AVM had a great day, and we were joined by the 44 Sqd reunion blokes and blokesses with similar range of ranks. The biggest complaint about the modern RAF was not people wandering around in flying suits, nor was it smoking, sunglasses or slouching, it was the general dismay at seeing serving RAF men and women wandering about disguised at bits of forest! It must be hard to look *smart* when dressed in a bit of camouflage netting.
All in all, the RAF did an outstanding job of organisation at Waddo, they always do, and their representatives of all ranks were, as usual, polite and gentlemanly (ie, prepared to *listen* to old codgers).
PS, as my posts always seem to end a thread I'd get yer replies in sharpish.
And the wearing of flying suits in *public* . . . that was always the case as well. Although they were a tasteful blue in those days, not covered in *zaps* and worn with a peaked cap.
Nothing really changes does it, just the colour of the kit and where zaps are stuck - used to be the kites!
Regarding the perceptions of the public however, that's a different kettle of things. DamienB, Seafuryfan and others have said the the public (at RAF airshows) either doesn't give a toss or that they are generally uninformed or that the *relaxed* look is beneficial. In their world this may be the case, but at Waddo, a goodly percentage of that *public* were ex-RAF (or other service) - and all these guys would have *cared* I bet. Talked with several *Cranwell* types and found them pleasant blokes, and quite friendly and talkative when they found out I, and others, were ex-mob. No *scruffiness* apparent either.
I saw, met and talked with many, many older guys at Waddo though, confess to being one of them myself. A surprising number of people at such shows are there for a nostalgia trip. For example, at the Canberra Assoc enclosure a great many ex-CanMen of all ranks up to ex-AVM had a great day, and we were joined by the 44 Sqd reunion blokes and blokesses with similar range of ranks. The biggest complaint about the modern RAF was not people wandering around in flying suits, nor was it smoking, sunglasses or slouching, it was the general dismay at seeing serving RAF men and women wandering about disguised at bits of forest! It must be hard to look *smart* when dressed in a bit of camouflage netting.
All in all, the RAF did an outstanding job of organisation at Waddo, they always do, and their representatives of all ranks were, as usual, polite and gentlemanly (ie, prepared to *listen* to old codgers).
PS, as my posts always seem to end a thread I'd get yer replies in sharpish.
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OK as a UAS stude who has just graduated and was present at the airshow I figured I should reply.
Firstly, on the issue of sleeves rolled up. Our boss allows it, and we take our que from him. Anyone at the show would know how searingly hot it was, and I believe most of the public would not have thought the sleeves rolled up was scruffy, more practical.
Secondly, we as UAS studes are not issued sunglasses therefore we wear our own, if they are oakleys then so be it, they were necessary if you wanted to be able to see on the Sunday!
I fully agree on the hands in pockets looks scruffy, and I asure you all the students who did this were told to get their act together.
Some people complained about us posing near aircraft. For those who worked at the show you would know that we volunteered to assist with security as the organisers were short and our job was to stop people crossing the barriers which we did. As the aircrew were with their own aircraft we chatted to them, and to the public. Someone in civvies came to talk to me who I believe was an RAF officer. He was attempting to catch us out by asking us questions about the aircraft we were near, and being quite rude in the process. As volunteers we told people what we could about the aircraft whilst the crews were away in a polite manner and 99% of the public we spoke to were very interested and chatted happily with no complaints.
In the end I believe people come to these airshows to watch the displays and have an enjoyable day out, and are more interested in what we do. As for the UAS bashing, I assure you all of the other crews from all nations had badges, sunglasses etc. We also all had a cracking time at the party, and behaved no different from anyone else there, a fantastic end to a good flying weekend.
Firstly, on the issue of sleeves rolled up. Our boss allows it, and we take our que from him. Anyone at the show would know how searingly hot it was, and I believe most of the public would not have thought the sleeves rolled up was scruffy, more practical.
Secondly, we as UAS studes are not issued sunglasses therefore we wear our own, if they are oakleys then so be it, they were necessary if you wanted to be able to see on the Sunday!
I fully agree on the hands in pockets looks scruffy, and I asure you all the students who did this were told to get their act together.
Some people complained about us posing near aircraft. For those who worked at the show you would know that we volunteered to assist with security as the organisers were short and our job was to stop people crossing the barriers which we did. As the aircrew were with their own aircraft we chatted to them, and to the public. Someone in civvies came to talk to me who I believe was an RAF officer. He was attempting to catch us out by asking us questions about the aircraft we were near, and being quite rude in the process. As volunteers we told people what we could about the aircraft whilst the crews were away in a polite manner and 99% of the public we spoke to were very interested and chatted happily with no complaints.
In the end I believe people come to these airshows to watch the displays and have an enjoyable day out, and are more interested in what we do. As for the UAS bashing, I assure you all of the other crews from all nations had badges, sunglasses etc. We also all had a cracking time at the party, and behaved no different from anyone else there, a fantastic end to a good flying weekend.
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Been there, seen it, got the T shirt, starred in the recruitment video! Hands metaphorically removed at the wrists for pocket billiards years ago (last Purple to graduate Henlow circa '75) and still have strong feelings for uniform code, BUT,,,,I've come to terms with the new-look RAF. The response by ex-UAS is right.
As a serving officer of over 30 years, operational in several theatres but now in an instructional capacity, I can't get issue sun glasses or even another replacement flying suit from stores to replace one of mine in for essential maintenance , only the SE spare. Therefore if I had to represent the Service in any flying capacity at a public gathering I'd look like the proverbial "sack of **** "in the patched unit spare! God forbid any senior officer in civilian clothes dare try to inform me of my dress - both barrels discharged immediately.
Facts require establishing before taking the case to court or else the case falls apart. "Gilbert Blades"
As a serving officer of over 30 years, operational in several theatres but now in an instructional capacity, I can't get issue sun glasses or even another replacement flying suit from stores to replace one of mine in for essential maintenance , only the SE spare. Therefore if I had to represent the Service in any flying capacity at a public gathering I'd look like the proverbial "sack of **** "in the patched unit spare! God forbid any senior officer in civilian clothes dare try to inform me of my dress - both barrels discharged immediately.
Facts require establishing before taking the case to court or else the case falls apart. "Gilbert Blades"
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RAISING THE TONE
On reading this thread, I was prompted to recall an incident from the halcyon days of naval aviation in the late 1960s.
It was one of those exercises designed to convince the hoi polloi that British reinforcements could be deployed to SE Asia at short notice to supplement the then 28th Commonwealth Brigade. We flew Wessex 5's from HMS ALBION, home ported in Singapore. Our role was to support the Third Commando Brigade, Royal Marines, which in those days was garrisoned in Singapore. Invariably, we were the Orange Force enemy for these exercises, the "friendly forces" being the RAF and ANZUK. Unlike our adversaries, we "lived in the field". Life's little luxuries were hard to come by - no laundry facilities, no field kitchens, no prepared meals - only ration packs, no ablutions, no showers, no toilets, no stewards, no endless changes of clothes, no air conditioned cockpits, no bar, no shops, no ready access to social pursuits etc. etc. For low level ops, we flew in short sleeves to keep cool in the tropical heat and humidity. At night, we descended into jungle clearings using portable 'Grimes' Lights with a consequent increase in heartbeat when the "Bootnecks" would say, "No worries sir, no obstacles within 100 metres of the Tee - trust me". If necessary, we slept in the aircraft and smeared ourselves with "pussers" issue repellent to ward off the mozzies- no Gucci scent there! "Pussers" issue eyewear was useless so we wore non standard sunglasses purchased in Change Alley to guard against the tropical glare. Ah, it was foolish but it was fun!
After about two weeks of exercise flying, we were rotated to a rear area near Gemas, western Malaysia, for a short break. There, in the middle of nowhere, the RAF and Royal Corps of Transport had conspired to erect a tented Officers' Mess complex, complete with a marquee that boasted all home comforts including a bar, ice, starched napkins, a separate toilet/shower block, kitchen, three meals per day menu, armchairs and current editions of the 'Straits Times’. All that was missing was the regimental silver! Officiating over proceedings was a corpulent, florid and terribly blunt group captain who had been deployed from a UK stores depot that stockpiled toilet paper and other stores doubtless essential to the cold war effort. Becoming PMC had to gone to said groupenfuehrer’s head. As befitting a senior grocer, he'd managed to outfit himself in sartorial splendour with knife edge creases in his JGs. He was determined to ensure “proper dress standards” for recalcitrant aircrew, especially those of a dark blue persuasion. He’d produced a set of Mess Rules that stipulated polished shoes, starched jungle greens and a “tone” that he thought was appropriate to an Officers’ Mess. Not having any starched flying suits or the means of polishing scuffed and dusty flying boots, we soon incurred his wrath. We “lowered the tone” of his Mess, and he took great pleasure in telling us so.
To overcome this problem, and being indefatigable naval officers, we constructed a small flagpole from various pieces of wood with a cardboard “tone” pennant. This was placed on the bar. When the PMC arrived, we were able to “raise the tone”. When he left, we “lowered the tone”.
Initially, said groupenfuehrer, as I recall, suffered a fundamental sense of humour failure. However, after some testy exchanges going to the nature of what value he added to the operational rate of effort, he got the message that "all that glisters isn't gold".
"Plus ca change, plus c'est la meme chose"!
It was one of those exercises designed to convince the hoi polloi that British reinforcements could be deployed to SE Asia at short notice to supplement the then 28th Commonwealth Brigade. We flew Wessex 5's from HMS ALBION, home ported in Singapore. Our role was to support the Third Commando Brigade, Royal Marines, which in those days was garrisoned in Singapore. Invariably, we were the Orange Force enemy for these exercises, the "friendly forces" being the RAF and ANZUK. Unlike our adversaries, we "lived in the field". Life's little luxuries were hard to come by - no laundry facilities, no field kitchens, no prepared meals - only ration packs, no ablutions, no showers, no toilets, no stewards, no endless changes of clothes, no air conditioned cockpits, no bar, no shops, no ready access to social pursuits etc. etc. For low level ops, we flew in short sleeves to keep cool in the tropical heat and humidity. At night, we descended into jungle clearings using portable 'Grimes' Lights with a consequent increase in heartbeat when the "Bootnecks" would say, "No worries sir, no obstacles within 100 metres of the Tee - trust me". If necessary, we slept in the aircraft and smeared ourselves with "pussers" issue repellent to ward off the mozzies- no Gucci scent there! "Pussers" issue eyewear was useless so we wore non standard sunglasses purchased in Change Alley to guard against the tropical glare. Ah, it was foolish but it was fun!
After about two weeks of exercise flying, we were rotated to a rear area near Gemas, western Malaysia, for a short break. There, in the middle of nowhere, the RAF and Royal Corps of Transport had conspired to erect a tented Officers' Mess complex, complete with a marquee that boasted all home comforts including a bar, ice, starched napkins, a separate toilet/shower block, kitchen, three meals per day menu, armchairs and current editions of the 'Straits Times’. All that was missing was the regimental silver! Officiating over proceedings was a corpulent, florid and terribly blunt group captain who had been deployed from a UK stores depot that stockpiled toilet paper and other stores doubtless essential to the cold war effort. Becoming PMC had to gone to said groupenfuehrer’s head. As befitting a senior grocer, he'd managed to outfit himself in sartorial splendour with knife edge creases in his JGs. He was determined to ensure “proper dress standards” for recalcitrant aircrew, especially those of a dark blue persuasion. He’d produced a set of Mess Rules that stipulated polished shoes, starched jungle greens and a “tone” that he thought was appropriate to an Officers’ Mess. Not having any starched flying suits or the means of polishing scuffed and dusty flying boots, we soon incurred his wrath. We “lowered the tone” of his Mess, and he took great pleasure in telling us so.
To overcome this problem, and being indefatigable naval officers, we constructed a small flagpole from various pieces of wood with a cardboard “tone” pennant. This was placed on the bar. When the PMC arrived, we were able to “raise the tone”. When he left, we “lowered the tone”.
Initially, said groupenfuehrer, as I recall, suffered a fundamental sense of humour failure. However, after some testy exchanges going to the nature of what value he added to the operational rate of effort, he got the message that "all that glisters isn't gold".
"Plus ca change, plus c'est la meme chose"!
Last edited by Argus; 8th Jul 2003 at 18:00.
just looks scruffy and working-class
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Sorry I have no scanner so cant post it!
Just dug up a photo of my grandfather during the war (not too many miles from Waddo!) sunning himself next to Guy Gibson, both with their sleeves rolled up, no hats one with hands in pockets and the other smoking! Tut tut how working class Beagle!
Later in the War the RAF got its revenge on gramps as he was jailed for 3 days for refusing a Senior Officers order to stop wearing his 100 mission 'lucky' hat that was covered in Brylcream, oil and god knows what else. (He did not stop and went on to win great distinction in the air)
Not trying to make a point, but I do believe that the RAF has everything to be proud of, and in the whole we are juged by our results not our ironing. There may be one or two of us that are a little scruffy, but they all are prepared to put thier lives on the line for thier country just like everyone else in the service. There are very few perks left to those of us that remain, and I hope that all RAF aircrew attending major airshows make the most of it, have fun, look cool as you bloody deserve it, and may not be around next year (Well done for a very hard year)
Just dug up a photo of my grandfather during the war (not too many miles from Waddo!) sunning himself next to Guy Gibson, both with their sleeves rolled up, no hats one with hands in pockets and the other smoking! Tut tut how working class Beagle!
Later in the War the RAF got its revenge on gramps as he was jailed for 3 days for refusing a Senior Officers order to stop wearing his 100 mission 'lucky' hat that was covered in Brylcream, oil and god knows what else. (He did not stop and went on to win great distinction in the air)
Not trying to make a point, but I do believe that the RAF has everything to be proud of, and in the whole we are juged by our results not our ironing. There may be one or two of us that are a little scruffy, but they all are prepared to put thier lives on the line for thier country just like everyone else in the service. There are very few perks left to those of us that remain, and I hope that all RAF aircrew attending major airshows make the most of it, have fun, look cool as you bloody deserve it, and may not be around next year (Well done for a very hard year)
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Perfectly acceptable, sleeves not rolled up.
And if either of them need some help washing their kit, I volunteer!
And if either of them need some help washing their kit, I volunteer!
OK - delete "Working Class".....mainly because there's no such thing! But sleeves rolled up ready for road-digging duty doesn't look good in the public eye, in my opinion. But I've bored you enough about that - there are far more interesting things to consider such as those ladies in flying suits! You can keep the chubby one in the green 'suit', but the lass in blue is very tasty! Proves that the RN has taste - and I 'll even overlook their flying suit sleeves as they're not in public 
Last edited by BEagle; 8th Jul 2003 at 06:34.
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More of the same here:
Body painting airshow
Now I bet that airshow was much more fun than Waddington.
Now say ahhhhhhh......
Body painting airshow
Now I bet that airshow was much more fun than Waddington.
Now say ahhhhhhh......
There's no air shows like that in my neck of the woods. Almost reminds me of NATO beer calls, from back in the day.Join Date: Dec 2002
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This sort of rubbish from Senior officers is the main reason I became a civilian.
Did the Patriot Sam that took out the 9 Sqdn Tornado check they were dressed correctly first?.
Did the bullets that killed Cornel H Jones and his boys at Goose Green inspect them first?
Leadership of the highest quality was demonstrated by the Boss of 9 Sqdn and his crews.
I suggest all you Idiots sitting in your safe little holes follow his example and learn the real qualities of an officer and that leading from the front generates honour and respect not nit-picking at the real people who do the job that you clearly are not capable of doing!!!
Did the Patriot Sam that took out the 9 Sqdn Tornado check they were dressed correctly first?.
Did the bullets that killed Cornel H Jones and his boys at Goose Green inspect them first?
Leadership of the highest quality was demonstrated by the Boss of 9 Sqdn and his crews.
I suggest all you Idiots sitting in your safe little holes follow his example and learn the real qualities of an officer and that leading from the front generates honour and respect not nit-picking at the real people who do the job that you clearly are not capable of doing!!!
My girlfriend
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I can't help it.
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And the relevance of the above is?
Im almost positive that the round that caught Col 'H' didn't stop to check his kit was in order, it probably assumed that, with him being a Lt Col in a disciplined army.
Self discipline and self pride are both valuable but free of charge, there are rules and codes of dress to be stood by, Im sure Col 'H' would have had something to say from the other side if at the funeral of those who fell if the bearers where turned out in rag order for a public ceremony, as would the queen if trooping the colour was held in tracksuits and pat butcher earrings.
So what is difference between this and members of the forces being turned out in front of the public and by the very nature of the occasion, 'on show'
Like Eagle says, if you want to slob around in front of the public that pay your wages then go and join the cloggy air force.
Im almost positive that the round that caught Col 'H' didn't stop to check his kit was in order, it probably assumed that, with him being a Lt Col in a disciplined army.
Self discipline and self pride are both valuable but free of charge, there are rules and codes of dress to be stood by, Im sure Col 'H' would have had something to say from the other side if at the funeral of those who fell if the bearers where turned out in rag order for a public ceremony, as would the queen if trooping the colour was held in tracksuits and pat butcher earrings.
So what is difference between this and members of the forces being turned out in front of the public and by the very nature of the occasion, 'on show'
Like Eagle says, if you want to slob around in front of the public that pay your wages then go and join the cloggy air force.
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Easy on, Orion 'ole boy, many if not most here have been there, done that, bought the shirt and got the plaque.
I suggest all you Idiots sitting in your safe little holes follow his example and learn the real qualities of an officer and that leading from the front generates honour and respect not nit-picking at the real people who do the job that you clearly are not capable of doing!!!
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Nooooooo having been viewing quietly and behaving.
A post like that though was enough to raise a bite and force a reply
Am just picturing the RAF band beating the retreat in a No2 dress, sleeves rolled up and raybans on while hammering out a hit from Destinies child instead of following the military way and being smart, disciplined and well presented for thier public
will now crawl back under my rock (unless anyone wants thier wife taunting)
A post like that though was enough to raise a bite and force a reply
Am just picturing the RAF band beating the retreat in a No2 dress, sleeves rolled up and raybans on while hammering out a hit from Destinies child instead of following the military way and being smart, disciplined and well presented for thier public
will now crawl back under my rock (unless anyone wants thier wife taunting)
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Aircrew Hosting
Just to nudge this thread away from the sartorial(?) theme, may I just take the opportunity to thank all those involved for making the show/weekend enjoyable for those aircrew attending?
Haven't had access to the internet since arrival from Waddo, so this might be a little tardy, but thanks to those, especially in Aircrew Hosting, who made it such an enjoyable event from my point of view. Flexible enough to cope with changes in plans and transport faffs!. How I wish the RIAT team of organisational buffoons would perform to the same standard!
Cheers guys...see you next year??
Haven't had access to the internet since arrival from Waddo, so this might be a little tardy, but thanks to those, especially in Aircrew Hosting, who made it such an enjoyable event from my point of view. Flexible enough to cope with changes in plans and transport faffs!. How I wish the RIAT team of organisational buffoons would perform to the same standard!
Cheers guys...see you next year??
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Vortex,
Another nice pic!
I think the paintshop boy is probably thinking:
"Now shall I do the chin with a full set of whiskers, goatee, Hollywood or just leave it Brazilian?"
Another nice pic!
I think the paintshop boy is probably thinking:
"Now shall I do the chin with a full set of whiskers, goatee, Hollywood or just leave it Brazilian?"