Waddington airshow
Probably a different issue. In any case, we don't have short-sleeved flying suits....
Why is it that Yanks wear ties with short-sleeved shirts? No-one else does!
Why is it that Yanks wear ties with short-sleeved shirts? No-one else does!
Vortex what...ouch!
Accountable? HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA
Who are you kidding? Got promoted out of it more likely
Get the system to change it? HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA
Haven't laughed so much in ages!
Thanks whoever you are!
If much money was spent redesigning a flight suit and the only change was its colour what have those complaining done about it? Surely these people who worked on it are accountable.
Who are you kidding? Got promoted out of it more likely
I read the complaints about the knife something like a year or so ago. Who has actually attempted to get the system to change it?
Haven't laughed so much in ages!
Thanks whoever you are!
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PCD
Me too, this thread is a riot!
Speaking of uniform debaucheries, the US Air Force is designing its own unique Battle Dress Uniforms, or BDUs as we call them (the camouflage ones)...
Rumor has it that the new colors will be blue and gray(!), according to Air Force Times (our service tabloid). According to an official USAF statement, "The Air Force is considering an Air Force-distinctive uniform to replace the current BDU."
I am sure it will look great, feel great, and make us the envy of the entire world!
Cheers! M2
Me too, this thread is a riot!
Speaking of uniform debaucheries, the US Air Force is designing its own unique Battle Dress Uniforms, or BDUs as we call them (the camouflage ones)...
A fit and wear test will determine the best direction to respond to Air Force needs for a 21st century utility uniform. This wear test usually lasts between six months to one year but can be extended based upon the complexity of the uniform and feedback from the wear testers. Positive and negative feedback is collected to ensure necessary improvements are made to the uniform or item before any decision is made to adopt it or not.
I am sure it will look great, feel great, and make us the envy of the entire world!
Cheers! M2
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Where the hell did all this "civvies dont give a monkey's" come from...did anybody stop to ask the paying public at Waddington?
I can't vouch for "the Civvies" but I can say that I wasnt impressed to see all and sundry that could get a growbag had, and was wearing it like a god etc!!! I even have to admit to seeing several E3 crew changing badges on cue signals etc..
I walked past the Helicopter statics to see a bunch of UAS looking like a bunch of wasters..
The smartest bunch I saw were the ATC who were proudly marching around,,,though god knows why with the examples that were set by the serving members...
I can't vouch for "the Civvies" but I can say that I wasnt impressed to see all and sundry that could get a growbag had, and was wearing it like a god etc!!! I even have to admit to seeing several E3 crew changing badges on cue signals etc..
I walked past the Helicopter statics to see a bunch of UAS looking like a bunch of wasters..
The smartest bunch I saw were the ATC who were proudly marching around,,,though god knows why with the examples that were set by the serving members...
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FWIW, I was working at Waddington for the whole weekend and have to agree that -
1. The F18, SU26 and both Lynx displays were excellent - (The Back Flip always has what's left of my hair stood on end!)
2. The standards of dress and behaviour of the UAS and Cranditz types did the image of the RAF no favours at all.
Thanks to all those who worked hard to ensure a successful show.
1. The F18, SU26 and both Lynx displays were excellent - (The Back Flip always has what's left of my hair stood on end!)
2. The standards of dress and behaviour of the UAS and Cranditz types did the image of the RAF no favours at all.
Thanks to all those who worked hard to ensure a successful show.
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Well, it's nice to see a bit of healthy debate for once!
Just to clarify a couple of things;
I don't object to the wearing of sunglasses with uniform. As Beagle pointed out, as long as they are not of the outrageously flash variety, that’s fine. What I disagree with is the wearing of them on top of the head in a 'boy band fashion' when not using them as designed.
I would be the first to admit that our current flying suits are not the smartest/most practical/ideal bit of kit on the inventory but it is uniform. If some of you feel you do not need to maintain even the most basic of military bearing, especially in the public eye, then may I suggest you change career and resign you commission. It's called setting an example. Can't really blame the Cadet O's for their turnout.
Finally, I must praise the majority of RAF Waddington and visiting crews for throwing a top event. I felt it was the few that let the side down.
PS For the SD retentive, this is a BB, not a draft to Parliament!
Just to clarify a couple of things;
I don't object to the wearing of sunglasses with uniform. As Beagle pointed out, as long as they are not of the outrageously flash variety, that’s fine. What I disagree with is the wearing of them on top of the head in a 'boy band fashion' when not using them as designed.
I would be the first to admit that our current flying suits are not the smartest/most practical/ideal bit of kit on the inventory but it is uniform. If some of you feel you do not need to maintain even the most basic of military bearing, especially in the public eye, then may I suggest you change career and resign you commission. It's called setting an example. Can't really blame the Cadet O's for their turnout.
Finally, I must praise the majority of RAF Waddington and visiting crews for throwing a top event. I felt it was the few that let the side down.
PS For the SD retentive, this is a BB, not a draft to Parliament!
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As a civvie pilot who doesn't give a $hite what I wear at an Air Display, I think the new RAF flying suits look rather nice. Anybody want to donate one for 'Trial purposes'?
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Vortex, Vortex Vortex.
If only you knew.
The rest, Don't think anyone here is saying we should go out and look scruffy, just that we don't think wearing non-issue sunglasses and rolling up sleeves is not scruffy. Obviously we're all wrong, and about two of you are right! Oh well, best I go and starch my flying suit before tomorrow.
Have a good weekend
ps.
Jayteeto, Apologies me old son. Right you are; obviously couldn't see it properly for steam in my eyes!
If only you knew.
The rest, Don't think anyone here is saying we should go out and look scruffy, just that we don't think wearing non-issue sunglasses and rolling up sleeves is not scruffy. Obviously we're all wrong, and about two of you are right! Oh well, best I go and starch my flying suit before tomorrow.
Have a good weekend
ps.
Jayteeto, Apologies me old son. Right you are; obviously couldn't see it properly for steam in my eyes!
Avoid imitations
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Next year I'm going to wear my Dayglo orange flying suit, Chinese rank insignia, my 3 different pilot's brevets, medals and boy scout badges.
Oh yes, and my Foster Grants and that old RAF chipbag hat. And that spare pair of desert boots I bought in the NAAFI at Aldergrove. No, I don't know why they sell them there either.
That should show those UAS upstarts a thing or two......
Roll the sleeves up? No! Good grief man, we have to have to set standards, you know!
Oh yes, and my Foster Grants and that old RAF chipbag hat. And that spare pair of desert boots I bought in the NAAFI at Aldergrove. No, I don't know why they sell them there either.
That should show those UAS upstarts a thing or two......
Roll the sleeves up? No! Good grief man, we have to have to set standards, you know!
Just a minor point, but unless the dress regs have changed, you are not allowed to wear sunglasses with uniform. The aircrew issue ones are for use in the cockpit.
But there again, my eyes have always been susceptible to strong sunlight and some rules are there to be broken!
But there again, my eyes have always been susceptible to strong sunlight and some rules are there to be broken!
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It is an extremely bright and sunny day. Do I:
a. Slavishly adhere to even the most obscure dress regs and walk around all day squinting into the sun looking like I'm turning Japanese and possibly damaging my eyesight?
or
b. Wear a pair of sunglasses, look cool, and not walk around all day squinting into the sun looking like I'm turning Japanese etc?
Guidance of wise men, obedience of fools etc etc
a. Slavishly adhere to even the most obscure dress regs and walk around all day squinting into the sun looking like I'm turning Japanese and possibly damaging my eyesight?
or
b. Wear a pair of sunglasses, look cool, and not walk around all day squinting into the sun looking like I'm turning Japanese etc?
Guidance of wise men, obedience of fools etc etc
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If that person in civilian clothes is a senior officer then he/she should identify themselves as such. If inappropriate behaviour/dress is observed, then that officer should take names and do something about it. Rather that than just whining about the standard of dress.
Sunglasses??? Well honestly, who gives a toss about sunglasses and if they happen to be worn on top of someones head for a few moments? That shows the absolute micro-management, nit-picky, horse manure attitude that has destroyed the character of many air forces around the world. If I have to stand next to my jet for eight to ten hours in the sun, I will wear a good pair of sunglasses and even a non issue hat if I have to.
I suppose eye damage and a self inflicted wound (sunburn) would be much more appealing to the public image.
Sunglasses??? Well honestly, who gives a toss about sunglasses and if they happen to be worn on top of someones head for a few moments? That shows the absolute micro-management, nit-picky, horse manure attitude that has destroyed the character of many air forces around the world. If I have to stand next to my jet for eight to ten hours in the sun, I will wear a good pair of sunglasses and even a non issue hat if I have to.
I suppose eye damage and a self inflicted wound (sunburn) would be much more appealing to the public image.
The trick is to have a jet inside which one can have the odd cold one...
Probably not in the Kingdom though.....
Probably not in the Kingdom though.....
Last edited by BEagle; 5th Jul 2003 at 21:38.
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Not sure if it still happens or not, what with extreme-PC being the soup-du-jour these days, but in the '80s it was was beer companies that were the major sponsors at Air Shows. If guys are worried about sunglasses and public image, God only knows what the public thought of us walking around with Molson Light hats and zaps!
And then, retiring to the crew beer tent which was only steps away from the line. Ah, memories...and crashing a wedding reception at the hotel whilst our AC wheezed out a few tunes on his pipes. All to the glee of the bride and groom. Brings a tear to me eyes, it does.
And then, retiring to the crew beer tent which was only steps away from the line. Ah, memories...and crashing a wedding reception at the hotel whilst our AC wheezed out a few tunes on his pipes. All to the glee of the bride and groom. Brings a tear to me eyes, it does.
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I don't know if the great public out there cares what the RAF looks like - I don't think the RAF cares what the RAF looks like! On the base where I work, toilets are blocked for weeks on end, the base it littered with untaxed derelict cars, there are heaps of rubble and spoil from uncompleted roadworks, paint is peeling, roofs leak, there doesn't seem to be any budget to fix anything and the only the reason that the whole place doesn't go down the pan is because the pan is blocked!
Moleskins? Are you serious..??
But there again, after a year or so in the Great Sandtray I guess even Labatts would taste good!
The only 'beer' I can recall from Gulf War One was 'Moussie' (or something like that) - a non-alcoholic brew which wasn't too bad if you cooled it to 1 degree above freezing point. Or 'Swan Light' - equally appealing.
But at a certain desert $hithole where BWoS employed people, there was a horrid brew made from Kaliber, 'Jeddah Gin' and gravy browning (for colour......and taste!). As I recall, Jeddah Gin was made from 5lbs each of potatoes, lemons, oranges and sugar. Plus some yeast - then put in a polythene dustbin with a gallon of water and hidden from the locals until brewed. Allegedly. The resulting brew did the trick for the local BWoS inmates - but meths would probably have been cheaper!
But there again, after a year or so in the Great Sandtray I guess even Labatts would taste good!
The only 'beer' I can recall from Gulf War One was 'Moussie' (or something like that) - a non-alcoholic brew which wasn't too bad if you cooled it to 1 degree above freezing point. Or 'Swan Light' - equally appealing.
But at a certain desert $hithole where BWoS employed people, there was a horrid brew made from Kaliber, 'Jeddah Gin' and gravy browning (for colour......and taste!). As I recall, Jeddah Gin was made from 5lbs each of potatoes, lemons, oranges and sugar. Plus some yeast - then put in a polythene dustbin with a gallon of water and hidden from the locals until brewed. Allegedly. The resulting brew did the trick for the local BWoS inmates - but meths would probably have been cheaper!
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I agree with Damien B, I don't think that the majority of the general public at airshows actually even KNOW what is standard and non-standard about a flying suit wearer, let alone care. There are so many posers/wannabees/spotters etc that non-standard shades, hats on/off, rolled up shirtsleeves will be neither here or there to most. If we're going to keep any sort of standards up, it should be in these departments:
Talking to the public in a friendly, informative manner, not adopting the 'look at me, but don't bother me' attitude, especially those manning the display ac (and I have seen real dedication here e.g. Hawk driver who did an early display and spent the rest of the very hot day in front of his ac, no breaks, no g/cs to help, etc).
Anyone with rank, or who serves on a sqn, GRIPPING posing UAS and Cranwell offenders with a word or two - "Excuse me, can I see your ID please?" always gets the attention (and I think its only a minority, they just get right up our noses and we remember them). IOT/UAS Flt Cdrs pse note.
JHC: Please let us display our military helicopters in public and not cancel our air display bookings because you're afraid it might 'offend' public sensibilities because we were in the Iraq war.
Talking to the public in a friendly, informative manner, not adopting the 'look at me, but don't bother me' attitude, especially those manning the display ac (and I have seen real dedication here e.g. Hawk driver who did an early display and spent the rest of the very hot day in front of his ac, no breaks, no g/cs to help, etc).
Anyone with rank, or who serves on a sqn, GRIPPING posing UAS and Cranwell offenders with a word or two - "Excuse me, can I see your ID please?" always gets the attention (and I think its only a minority, they just get right up our noses and we remember them). IOT/UAS Flt Cdrs pse note.
JHC: Please let us display our military helicopters in public and not cancel our air display bookings because you're afraid it might 'offend' public sensibilities because we were in the Iraq war.
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Frankly I find it amazing (but not surprising) that some people posting on here should be so ana1 in their views. With all the talk of IOT flt cdrs I am thinking that there is a large pool of wannabe flt cdrs right here!!!!!!
Berate me if Im wrong but most of the young guys at airshows wearing the "non standard" but effective eyewear, with their flying suit sleeves rolled up, are doing exactly what is expected of them nowadays. Getting out in the public eye and talking to joe public in a down to earth manner!!! Are we struggling with retention and recruitment?
Maybe they volunteered to help out (in the hope of pulling a fit bird) or maybe they were volunteered but they were there. How many times do you see the more experienced guys standing by the statics. Not much, but probably coz they have done it when they were young. I would be willing to bet that the reasons were much the same then but that is quickly forgotten by some.
Beagle Im surprised with some of your comments, maybe the time spent in blues at BZN is getting to you.
Im not surprised in the slightest that we strut about airshows with a bit of swagger, after all we do fly fast jets (and other stuff). If we didnt have a bit of self confidence and pride then we probably would not have got where we are. Making the issue kit look good is just an aside. Even if you do have to accessorize with Mr Oakley.
Enjoy the rest of the airshow season. May all of them be sunny enough for Oakleys and rolled up sleeves.
I cant believe I replied to this! Must go and iron creases into my flight suit. After I pluck the flying pig out of my ar*e.
Berate me if Im wrong but most of the young guys at airshows wearing the "non standard" but effective eyewear, with their flying suit sleeves rolled up, are doing exactly what is expected of them nowadays. Getting out in the public eye and talking to joe public in a down to earth manner!!! Are we struggling with retention and recruitment?
Maybe they volunteered to help out (in the hope of pulling a fit bird) or maybe they were volunteered but they were there. How many times do you see the more experienced guys standing by the statics. Not much, but probably coz they have done it when they were young. I would be willing to bet that the reasons were much the same then but that is quickly forgotten by some.
Beagle Im surprised with some of your comments, maybe the time spent in blues at BZN is getting to you.
Im not surprised in the slightest that we strut about airshows with a bit of swagger, after all we do fly fast jets (and other stuff). If we didnt have a bit of self confidence and pride then we probably would not have got where we are. Making the issue kit look good is just an aside. Even if you do have to accessorize with Mr Oakley.
Enjoy the rest of the airshow season. May all of them be sunny enough for Oakleys and rolled up sleeves.
I cant believe I replied to this! Must go and iron creases into my flight suit. After I pluck the flying pig out of my ar*e.
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Is it not too much to ask that members of the Air Force on public display have just a little bit of personal pride? It's not a case of 'the civvies don't give a stuff'.
May I mention it is not the general variety of non-issue specs that are worn that concerns me, but the general basic turnout of our servicemen. I suggest any of you who disagree with this are perhaps the types who have no idea how important individual discipline is, even in this day and age.
Is it fashionable to look like a shower? Obviously, by some of the posts on here.
We don't require guardsman like knife-edges in flying suits, just remove the creases when you get it back from the sqippers! I saw some of the spotters with better turned out growbags!
Day one, week one. Why put your hands in your pockets? It just looks scruffy.
If you wish to smoke in public, in uniform, join the Dutch Air Force. Is that too much too ask?
I say again; if you don't have the capacity to uphold the most basic military traditions, without dripping, move along to civvy street.
May I mention it is not the general variety of non-issue specs that are worn that concerns me, but the general basic turnout of our servicemen. I suggest any of you who disagree with this are perhaps the types who have no idea how important individual discipline is, even in this day and age.
Is it fashionable to look like a shower? Obviously, by some of the posts on here.
We don't require guardsman like knife-edges in flying suits, just remove the creases when you get it back from the sqippers! I saw some of the spotters with better turned out growbags!
Day one, week one. Why put your hands in your pockets? It just looks scruffy.
If you wish to smoke in public, in uniform, join the Dutch Air Force. Is that too much too ask?
I say again; if you don't have the capacity to uphold the most basic military traditions, without dripping, move along to civvy street.