Waddington airshow
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[QUOTE]Well you lot certainly don’t come across as professional aircrew. You come across as whinging pretentious children.
The impression of the RAF sinks to new lows with this crap. You joined an armed force representing this country not a civvy company. There are rules to follow. If it doesn’t suit you leave.
Whinging like this does nothing for your public image. You just lost the support of (at least) one voter here.
Nothing but little boys with big toys.QUOTE]
Vortex,
Thanks for that. Much as I think I should not rise to your rantings .....
There has been much debate about the kit all the armed forces are issued with, and all are agreed that it could be better, and with respect to flying kit in particular, numerous contributors have summed it up nicely already, but as a quick resume, the new flying coverall is nothing more than a change of colour in reality, (but I am sure that someone will have got promoted out of it), and in the case of Waddington aircrew in particular (and other large a/c) , can anyone answer me, what is the point of the "J" knife? Give me a Leatherman any day, and it wouldn't even cost anything to modify the suits to accomodate the knife.
The issue sunglasses are barely worth a mention, and I am certain that you would not have found a single aircrew chappie/ess at Waddington last weekend actually wearing the things.
I do have to agree with you on one point though, your comments about if you don't like it, then leave. For various reasons, and yours is but a minor one, aircrew and other members of the Armed Forces will be leaving in their droves over the next few years, just watch this space.
Last point, were you actually at Waddington over the weekend? In my view all the Waddington personnel on duty, and that was the vast majority of the station strength, were all well turned out and did the RAF proud, well done everyone I am sure a load of money was raised for charity etc.
The impression of the RAF sinks to new lows with this crap. You joined an armed force representing this country not a civvy company. There are rules to follow. If it doesn’t suit you leave.
Whinging like this does nothing for your public image. You just lost the support of (at least) one voter here.
Nothing but little boys with big toys.QUOTE]
Vortex,
Thanks for that. Much as I think I should not rise to your rantings .....
There has been much debate about the kit all the armed forces are issued with, and all are agreed that it could be better, and with respect to flying kit in particular, numerous contributors have summed it up nicely already, but as a quick resume, the new flying coverall is nothing more than a change of colour in reality, (but I am sure that someone will have got promoted out of it), and in the case of Waddington aircrew in particular (and other large a/c) , can anyone answer me, what is the point of the "J" knife? Give me a Leatherman any day, and it wouldn't even cost anything to modify the suits to accomodate the knife.
The issue sunglasses are barely worth a mention, and I am certain that you would not have found a single aircrew chappie/ess at Waddington last weekend actually wearing the things.
I do have to agree with you on one point though, your comments about if you don't like it, then leave. For various reasons, and yours is but a minor one, aircrew and other members of the Armed Forces will be leaving in their droves over the next few years, just watch this space.
Last point, were you actually at Waddington over the weekend? In my view all the Waddington personnel on duty, and that was the vast majority of the station strength, were all well turned out and did the RAF proud, well done everyone I am sure a load of money was raised for charity etc.
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Certainly not trying to get anyone to “rise to my bait”. Simply saying what I see. Several people just came across as whingers saying ****** off when what appeared to be a valid point was made.
In reply to your point about equipment, if it doesn’t work then what are you doing about it, other than moaning on an internet BB? If much money was spent redesigning a flight suit and the only change was its colour what have those complaining done about it? Surely these people who worked on it are accountable. Have they pointed it out to their boss? I doubt it. Have they pushed it up to MoD? If you don’t contribute don’t complain about the results.
I read the complaints about the knife something like a year or so ago. Who has actually attempted to get the system to change it?
My point was that as officer aircrew you are supposed to be above average. Some of the posts on this thread paint a picture of pampered schoolboys who don’t like it when they have some criticism levelled at them. “I’m super FJ pilot, if you don’t like it bog off”. Hardly the riposte of an intelligent professional.
Like it or not that is the message that is put across and then re-enforced by people taking the mickey. If you don’t like my opinion of you then prove it wrong.
Not after a flame war here just telling it like I read it.
In reply to your point about equipment, if it doesn’t work then what are you doing about it, other than moaning on an internet BB? If much money was spent redesigning a flight suit and the only change was its colour what have those complaining done about it? Surely these people who worked on it are accountable. Have they pointed it out to their boss? I doubt it. Have they pushed it up to MoD? If you don’t contribute don’t complain about the results.
I read the complaints about the knife something like a year or so ago. Who has actually attempted to get the system to change it?
My point was that as officer aircrew you are supposed to be above average. Some of the posts on this thread paint a picture of pampered schoolboys who don’t like it when they have some criticism levelled at them. “I’m super FJ pilot, if you don’t like it bog off”. Hardly the riposte of an intelligent professional.
Like it or not that is the message that is put across and then re-enforced by people taking the mickey. If you don’t like my opinion of you then prove it wrong.
Not after a flame war here just telling it like I read it.
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Many moons ago I was in the USA to see the Red Arrows and the Thunderbirds performing at the same show together for the first time. The Thunderbird pilots and groundcrew looked absolutely immaculate down to the last detail but the team flew a large, boring and not particularly challenging routine. The Arrows pilots and groundcrew looked, well, rather workmanlike - even in their tailored suits - but in the air they absolutely wowed the American crowd. This proves that even the Arrows don't know how to dress for the occasion, and how you look doesn't necessarily determine how well you do your job. But it would be nice to see a team looking as smart as the Thunderbirds and flying as well as the Arrows.
Last edited by Zoom; 3rd Jul 2003 at 04:11.
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Well I have it on good authority that not all the servicemen in flying suits were aircrew. There was a certain waddo Ops O who donned his old suit complete with old sqn badges. He was posing for the public and no doubt the ladies. He even had the cheek to wear his old brevet from the branch he turned his back on .
I do agree, with Eagle, we should be setting an example to the so called cranditz mob, I believe "beyond reproach"should be our stance.
Who said you cant iron flying suits eh? nothing wrong with a cool iron run over the creases . appearence and bearing dear chaps and ladies....
To all those who wish to walk round scruffy go join a civvy airline some of those pilots can make tramps look smart!
To the sado who has to wear a flying suit to look good at an airshow, give it up , you deserted the branch long ago had your brain removed and you now have to pay the price! You know who you are ......
I do agree, with Eagle, we should be setting an example to the so called cranditz mob, I believe "beyond reproach"should be our stance.
Who said you cant iron flying suits eh? nothing wrong with a cool iron run over the creases . appearence and bearing dear chaps and ladies....
To all those who wish to walk round scruffy go join a civvy airline some of those pilots can make tramps look smart!
To the sado who has to wear a flying suit to look good at an airshow, give it up , you deserted the branch long ago had your brain removed and you now have to pay the price! You know who you are ......
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Has being 'uniform' ever been a requirement in the RAF, save for the rare ceremonial stuff? Stick your head through the door of any section on an RAF station and you'll have a job finding two persons dressed alike. Come to think of it, at the moment, you'll have a job finding two persons, but that's another story.
Whatever the regulations, and despite the best efforts of the SWO, you will never prevent people from following the prevailing fashions and trends. Have a look at a group photograph of RAF personnel, in uniform, from any decade since WW2. Notwithstanding any changes to uniform patterns (and, God knows, there have been few enough of those), you'll be able to name the decade, simply by looking at the people (their haircuts, spectacles etc). There is no excuse for scruffiness, but 'uniformity' is constantly evolving.
Whatever the regulations, and despite the best efforts of the SWO, you will never prevent people from following the prevailing fashions and trends. Have a look at a group photograph of RAF personnel, in uniform, from any decade since WW2. Notwithstanding any changes to uniform patterns (and, God knows, there have been few enough of those), you'll be able to name the decade, simply by looking at the people (their haircuts, spectacles etc). There is no excuse for scruffiness, but 'uniformity' is constantly evolving.
Champagne anyone...?
I'm sorry, I'm clearly not paying enough attention to this ferocious debate. 
As far as my interest will allow, I gather my mick-taking of an internet bunfight over flying suits, sunglasses and a general decline standards in the RAF is in fact indicative of said decline and of a precocious, childish attitude in general?
Furthermore, the fact that we haven't all resigned over, say, the poor quality of aircrew sunglasses proves that we are all in fact part of the problem?
Blimey. And there was me going to wash the car when in fact there are such great wrongs to be righted.
I do think that perhaps you are reading a bit too much into some gibberish posted on an internet site, old fruit.
PS. As for enjoying my day, I always do cos I've got a rather good job
Sorry to hear we're losing your vote though.....
As far as my interest will allow, I gather my mick-taking of an internet bunfight over flying suits, sunglasses and a general decline standards in the RAF is in fact indicative of said decline and of a precocious, childish attitude in general?
Furthermore, the fact that we haven't all resigned over, say, the poor quality of aircrew sunglasses proves that we are all in fact part of the problem?
Blimey. And there was me going to wash the car when in fact there are such great wrongs to be righted.
I do think that perhaps you are reading a bit too much into some gibberish posted on an internet site, old fruit.
PS. As for enjoying my day, I always do cos I've got a rather good job
Sorry to hear we're losing your vote though.....
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RAF "uniforms" were a constant source of amusement to the RN in my day.
At stand easy on board the Ark, as a joke one day, all the RAF guys turned up in different kit.
Shorts with SS shirt and bundoo boots.
Ditto with black shoes.
No 5's
Long sleeve shirt long trousers black shoes
Ditto with bundoo boots
The two above with SS shirts
Plus other combinations all apparently acceptable in various places around the globe.
Our only commonality was the crap flying gear we all suffered with.
At stand easy on board the Ark, as a joke one day, all the RAF guys turned up in different kit.
Shorts with SS shirt and bundoo boots.
Ditto with black shoes.
No 5's
Long sleeve shirt long trousers black shoes
Ditto with bundoo boots
The two above with SS shirts
Plus other combinations all apparently acceptable in various places around the globe.
Our only commonality was the crap flying gear we all suffered with.
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Flyboy007 read my post properly. IDO wear Oakleys and roll my sleeves up and yes it is comfortable. What I said was hands in pockets and looking scruffy was not on. I agree with you.....
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Rude c'man,
Get a life.... iron a flying suit? Not until the hole in my a**e grows over. To the muppet who posted this thread. Some aircrew will look scruffy whatever they are dressed in. They are (mostly)human. To smoke in a flying suit has never been against QRs. To roll ones sleeves up is likewise not illegal (otherwise arrest the blunty fraternity in spades). I suppose you will be advocating tidying up the crewroom next! Shiny boots are happy boots......
Get a life.... iron a flying suit? Not until the hole in my a**e grows over. To the muppet who posted this thread. Some aircrew will look scruffy whatever they are dressed in. They are (mostly)human. To smoke in a flying suit has never been against QRs. To roll ones sleeves up is likewise not illegal (otherwise arrest the blunty fraternity in spades). I suppose you will be advocating tidying up the crewroom next! Shiny boots are happy boots......
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Rude C`man said:
Who said you cant iron flying suits eh? nothing wrong with a cool iron run over the creases .
The "Care" instructions inside the flying suit along with "Do not starch" oh and dont tumble dry, I thought mine had shrunk!
.....and before someone else says it, not I have not got larger!!
I think that the aeroplane tyres should have some shiney stuff painted on them an Michelin highlighted in white. Some US style 50s white rings on them would look a treat, and Elvis was there at Waddington.
Any naked UAS chicks at this years event then? Was last year
SG You should be ashamed of yourself, what are you on!
The "Care" instructions inside the flying suit along with "Do not starch" oh and dont tumble dry, I thought mine had shrunk!
.....and before someone else says it, not I have not got larger!!
I think that the aeroplane tyres should have some shiney stuff painted on them an Michelin highlighted in white. Some US style 50s white rings on them would look a treat, and Elvis was there at Waddington.
Any naked UAS chicks at this years event then? Was last year
SG You should be ashamed of yourself, what are you on!
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Interesting that Eagle 270 started this thread, but has not been back to offer up any more thoughts regarding holding of hands and sunglasses!!
OK then, to summarise:
Nothing wrong with wearing clean flying suits in public, as long as you don't look like a Christmas tree covered in silly badges. Just one per sleeve.
The old RAF sunglasses were fine - don't know what the new ones are like but if they're anything like the style of the 'corrective flying spectacles', then it's hardly surprising that people wear their own. 'Military' style RayBan aviators or Oakleys are probably fine - but some garish Gino Fellatio poseur's killer blade-shades would be out of place in my view.
Sleeves rolled-up? Not 'cool' - just looks scruffy and working-class. So if that's how you want to be perceived, then that's up to you.
As for washing a flying suit - it's not a 'flight suit' by the way unless it's some Spam thing - the old Cyprus APC trick was to wear it in the shower and wash it, then take it off and wash yourself normally. Hang it out on the 'Animal House' balcony and it would be dry again before the first jug of brandy sour had been quaffed...
And if someone in civilian clothes suggests to you that your appearance is inappropriate in the public eye, it might be that he's a senior officer. So perhaps it isn't a bright idea to tell him to ram it......
Nothing wrong with wearing clean flying suits in public, as long as you don't look like a Christmas tree covered in silly badges. Just one per sleeve.
The old RAF sunglasses were fine - don't know what the new ones are like but if they're anything like the style of the 'corrective flying spectacles', then it's hardly surprising that people wear their own. 'Military' style RayBan aviators or Oakleys are probably fine - but some garish Gino Fellatio poseur's killer blade-shades would be out of place in my view.
Sleeves rolled-up? Not 'cool' - just looks scruffy and working-class. So if that's how you want to be perceived, then that's up to you.
As for washing a flying suit - it's not a 'flight suit' by the way unless it's some Spam thing - the old Cyprus APC trick was to wear it in the shower and wash it, then take it off and wash yourself normally. Hang it out on the 'Animal House' balcony and it would be dry again before the first jug of brandy sour had been quaffed...
And if someone in civilian clothes suggests to you that your appearance is inappropriate in the public eye, it might be that he's a senior officer. So perhaps it isn't a bright idea to tell him to ram it......
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Ah ha!
It makes you look working class!
So, it is really just all about snobbery and the great British class sysytem.
Just remember Lord Plonker, it is the working class that attend your airshows and pay your wages (the rich are too busy paying accountants to find loopholes to get out of paying anything to bother).
Back to the original thread - joe public doesn't give a toss. He's there to watch the show, same as he doesn't go to Tescos and check everything is filled, faced and in date. Only anally retentive billy no-mates fill their lives with such trivial pointless crap.
It makes you look working class!
So, it is really just all about snobbery and the great British class sysytem.
Just remember Lord Plonker, it is the working class that attend your airshows and pay your wages (the rich are too busy paying accountants to find loopholes to get out of paying anything to bother).
Back to the original thread - joe public doesn't give a toss. He's there to watch the show, same as he doesn't go to Tescos and check everything is filled, faced and in date. Only anally retentive billy no-mates fill their lives with such trivial pointless crap.
Perhaps.
Go sing the Internationale.
For really pointless snobbery, I was once told that it "wasn't done" to roll ones sleeves up beyond the elbow. Why? Because that's what labourers did as they needed to have freedom of arm movement when wielding a pick and shovel (whatever those might be). Whereas a gentleman might roll up his sleeves by no more than two folds.... Honest - we really were taught such things once.
Go sing the Internationale.
For really pointless snobbery, I was once told that it "wasn't done" to roll ones sleeves up beyond the elbow. Why? Because that's what labourers did as they needed to have freedom of arm movement when wielding a pick and shovel (whatever those might be). Whereas a gentleman might roll up his sleeves by no more than two folds.... Honest - we really were taught such things once.