Can we have your husband's salary back please?
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This little story surprises me not one jot! My heart goes out to this poor girl, but unfortunately nothing will be learnt from this. My personal experiences of the Service line when losing a very close member of family were appalling, and today 3 years later it continues to be a cancer in my life; to be told by a snot second tourist JO the day after I return from compassionate leave and less than a week after buring my mother who died very suddenly and unexpectedly that he didn't care was for me the last straw and a sea change in my attitude to the RAF. What made it worse that even my OC tried to cover up for him, 3 years later and the redress is still grinding along.
I sincerely hope that time will heal the wounds that this poor lady has experienced, but if what I went through is anything to go by she will have a long time to wait, notwithstanding grovelling apologies from Members of State.
I sincerely hope that time will heal the wounds that this poor lady has experienced, but if what I went through is anything to go by she will have a long time to wait, notwithstanding grovelling apologies from Members of State.
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Again slightly off track but on the same note, my father died on holiday in Ibiza several years ago. Total chaos ensued, eventually sorted out, Mum home widowed at 47. A few weeks later a letter arrived addressed to my dead father with an itemised bill for services of the undertakers in Ibiza, including 'the charges for the embalming of your body, Mr Wee Jock's Dad.' Thank you huge British holiday company, you only got a snot-o-gram from my freaked-out mother because she couldn't face letting let her solicitor sue you. (He wanted to, I can assure you, and boy did I).
Whether it was technically correct or within guidelines or whatever load of bo££ocks the MOD wants to trot out to send Mrs Seymour this letter, morally it stinks and the arrangements which need to be made should be done with a little more sensitivity and explanation. Thanks once again to Bufhoon etc. for reminding me that hanging up my blue suit was the best decision I ever made.
Whether it was technically correct or within guidelines or whatever load of bo££ocks the MOD wants to trot out to send Mrs Seymour this letter, morally it stinks and the arrangements which need to be made should be done with a little more sensitivity and explanation. Thanks once again to Bufhoon etc. for reminding me that hanging up my blue suit was the best decision I ever made.
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Just before GW1 assorted former officers were called back, told to dust off their SD and polish their Sam Browne's and called to a briefing at Crazyhall (HQ Scotland) to be told how to act as KINFORMING officers.
They were each given a cash imprest to issue money to any impecunious rellie who needed cash to get down to Brize to see VSI wee Jock. The GOC Scotland had to be called in to quell a near-riot after the command accountant had told them not to give anyone more than £50 in case wee Jock croaked and the money couldn't be recovered from his pay.
They were each given a cash imprest to issue money to any impecunious rellie who needed cash to get down to Brize to see VSI wee Jock. The GOC Scotland had to be called in to quell a near-riot after the command accountant had told them not to give anyone more than £50 in case wee Jock croaked and the money couldn't be recovered from his pay.
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Looks like a Royal Marine officer is going to carry the can over this one, a Capt Graham Adcock.
The War Widows Assoc say that widows are paid a 'short term pension' equal to the dead servicemans basic. They also say that MoD often reclaims pay.
They (WWA) are actually backing the Capt and saying he was only following policy.
Could have been handled better.
The War Widows Assoc say that widows are paid a 'short term pension' equal to the dead servicemans basic. They also say that MoD often reclaims pay.
They (WWA) are actually backing the Capt and saying he was only following policy.
Could have been handled better.
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I want to get this back to the top where it rightfully belongs.
JC (Gary) thanks for the pm. I do think that we need to lobby our MPs, and anyone else, and I am grateful fo your support - thank you.
In a couple of days or months, this particular incident will (sadly) have been forgotten about by most of the populus, and will have been brushed under the carpet and forgotton about by the faceless and spineless people at MOD. Nothing will be done, and God forbid, the next time this country goes into battle, the same appalling things will occur again.
Gentlemen, I am not on a crusade, however if we are to protect and care for our loved ones if the worst ever does happen to us, then we need to join forces and sort this disgraceful situation out once and for all. We need to be certain, all of us, that those most precious to us, will be cared for when we pay the ultimate price.
Please, all you 'legal minded' souls, if you have any other suggestions other than letter writing, please let us know.
I should have hated for my wife and family to have been treated in such a way if I had 'copped it' during the last 30+ years, and I am extremely anxious to ensure that it never happens again to another servicemans family.
Your thoughts please gentlemen........thank you.
Kind regards
The Swinging Monkey
'Caruthers, a large one old boy!"'
JC (Gary) thanks for the pm. I do think that we need to lobby our MPs, and anyone else, and I am grateful fo your support - thank you.
In a couple of days or months, this particular incident will (sadly) have been forgotten about by most of the populus, and will have been brushed under the carpet and forgotton about by the faceless and spineless people at MOD. Nothing will be done, and God forbid, the next time this country goes into battle, the same appalling things will occur again.
Gentlemen, I am not on a crusade, however if we are to protect and care for our loved ones if the worst ever does happen to us, then we need to join forces and sort this disgraceful situation out once and for all. We need to be certain, all of us, that those most precious to us, will be cared for when we pay the ultimate price.
Please, all you 'legal minded' souls, if you have any other suggestions other than letter writing, please let us know.
I should have hated for my wife and family to have been treated in such a way if I had 'copped it' during the last 30+ years, and I am extremely anxious to ensure that it never happens again to another servicemans family.
Your thoughts please gentlemen........thank you.
Kind regards
The Swinging Monkey
'Caruthers, a large one old boy!"'
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I'm not in the military but I am fully informed on it as I have a military background and I am a journalist (but nothing posted here would ever be touched).
My advice; get a few of you together and approach a Sunday redtop, they love campaigns and this would be a very topical one as it was splashed all over the daily redtops.
The Times or Sunday Times would be a good bet too, although the Telegraph may be a bit too rooted in the system to be of a mind to go against their readership.
If the papers see there's a group of ex or current military bods very angry about the treatment of war widows they'd be on the case in a flash. The reason they're not already is because they don't know the daily reality of service rules but when informed they'll be gleefully sticking it to the MOD and His Hooness.
I wish you every support in your campaign, if you decide to press on, as I had many friends who were ex-RAF of WWII vintage and spoke of such archaic rules with resignation with regard to lost colleagues.
My advice; get a few of you together and approach a Sunday redtop, they love campaigns and this would be a very topical one as it was splashed all over the daily redtops.
The Times or Sunday Times would be a good bet too, although the Telegraph may be a bit too rooted in the system to be of a mind to go against their readership.
If the papers see there's a group of ex or current military bods very angry about the treatment of war widows they'd be on the case in a flash. The reason they're not already is because they don't know the daily reality of service rules but when informed they'll be gleefully sticking it to the MOD and His Hooness.
I wish you every support in your campaign, if you decide to press on, as I had many friends who were ex-RAF of WWII vintage and spoke of such archaic rules with resignation with regard to lost colleagues.
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I really believe that it is time the military had a 'federation'. The Netherlands military has one, and it works. The federation that the Police have works really well also. A federation is not a Union, i.e They don't call strikes, but what they do ensure is that issues surrounding welfare, families, pay etc are brought to the notice of the People and the Government. A federation would already have this issue plastered on all the tabloids.
So - how do we start one?
So - how do we start one?
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Tigs,
I've been wondering how to address welfare issues for a long time now and a federation is the only long-term measure that would keep servicemen's concerns in the spotlight. Unfortunately, the media take temporary interest in sensational stories (widow and pay, melting boots etc.), so they're not much use. I honestly believe that in today's harsh financial world the Forces obedience is being used to save cash - or worse, cover up problems that have/may cause someone to die.
Folks like AMPLT, RAFA, SSAFA et al simply don't have the teeth to get airtime with those who can change things - both at day-to-day unit level or with the policy makers - and there is an increasing gulf between shop floor and the hierarchy. Put quite simply, the framework isn't in place for problems to go up, explanations for strange decisions to go down (even those at the top are told to just cope) or any form of communication that doesn't involve filling in a complaint such as QR1001.
Federation may be the wrong word, but a body such as the AFPRB, who can ask questions in the right places - who can actually be contacted with grievances - might be the way forward. Oh and before someone suggests using the Commons Select Committee, that's not realistic when it comes to day-to-day fairly trivial moans (can't get kit, can't get a quarter, have been on 48hrs standby for 2 years solid etc.), but it's pointless spending millions recruiting if Bloggs is going to leave, disenchanted, 6 months later because quality of life is so poor.
We have a Drugs, Bullying, Equal Ops helpline, so as a start, how about having a 'I'm getting treated like crap' hotline ?
(I'm sure some PR company can come up with a catchy name)
Unless a federation was independent (as opposed to Flt Lt Smith having the secondary duty of Fed Rep), it will probably be a poodle, but the principle, for both the Service and the individual, can only be a good thing.
I've been wondering how to address welfare issues for a long time now and a federation is the only long-term measure that would keep servicemen's concerns in the spotlight. Unfortunately, the media take temporary interest in sensational stories (widow and pay, melting boots etc.), so they're not much use. I honestly believe that in today's harsh financial world the Forces obedience is being used to save cash - or worse, cover up problems that have/may cause someone to die.
Folks like AMPLT, RAFA, SSAFA et al simply don't have the teeth to get airtime with those who can change things - both at day-to-day unit level or with the policy makers - and there is an increasing gulf between shop floor and the hierarchy. Put quite simply, the framework isn't in place for problems to go up, explanations for strange decisions to go down (even those at the top are told to just cope) or any form of communication that doesn't involve filling in a complaint such as QR1001.
Federation may be the wrong word, but a body such as the AFPRB, who can ask questions in the right places - who can actually be contacted with grievances - might be the way forward. Oh and before someone suggests using the Commons Select Committee, that's not realistic when it comes to day-to-day fairly trivial moans (can't get kit, can't get a quarter, have been on 48hrs standby for 2 years solid etc.), but it's pointless spending millions recruiting if Bloggs is going to leave, disenchanted, 6 months later because quality of life is so poor.
We have a Drugs, Bullying, Equal Ops helpline, so as a start, how about having a 'I'm getting treated like crap' hotline ?
(I'm sure some PR company can come up with a catchy name)
Unless a federation was independent (as opposed to Flt Lt Smith having the secondary duty of Fed Rep), it will probably be a poodle, but the principle, for both the Service and the individual, can only be a good thing.
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FOMere2eternity
I agree with your points. Whatever the name of the body involved it has to be independant. Just as a point for discussion, during the last redundancy phase we lost 8000? jobs approx in the airforce alone, let alone the numbers from the other three services. If Sainsbury's were to close down some supermarkets with the loss of 2000 jobs it would be a headline on news at ten. We never even made it to that status! Bye the way the majority of the general public still think the uniformed boys get free rent! I run my own company now but would gladly give it up to start a tri-service federation. The puplic need educating. The British public are excellent, and if they are informed they tend to vote on what they believe is good for the country, and just like the NHS, they really believe(in my opinion) that the british military are the best in the world, and are good for this country! Any one out there want to help me???
I agree with your points. Whatever the name of the body involved it has to be independant. Just as a point for discussion, during the last redundancy phase we lost 8000? jobs approx in the airforce alone, let alone the numbers from the other three services. If Sainsbury's were to close down some supermarkets with the loss of 2000 jobs it would be a headline on news at ten. We never even made it to that status! Bye the way the majority of the general public still think the uniformed boys get free rent! I run my own company now but would gladly give it up to start a tri-service federation. The puplic need educating. The British public are excellent, and if they are informed they tend to vote on what they believe is good for the country, and just like the NHS, they really believe(in my opinion) that the british military are the best in the world, and are good for this country! Any one out there want to help me???
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Tigs2,
Count me in.
I am 100% behind you, and if I can be of any help, then please feel free to PM me.
Good luck
The swinging Monkey
'Caruthers, quick, get a pen and paper, looks like we're off!
Count me in.
I am 100% behind you, and if I can be of any help, then please feel free to PM me.
Good luck
The swinging Monkey
'Caruthers, quick, get a pen and paper, looks like we're off!
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Tigs
I'm willing to help but I'm not sure where to start. A few things to consider, I suggest are:
1. By design it has to be an improvement for British Forces as a whole, not a radical thorn in the side of the Govt. By that I mean it can't just be an arbitrary 'phone a moan' everytime Bloggs gets fizzed for being late for work. There would have to be, for want of a better word, a code of conduct. Bloggs, on the one hand, would get his moans heard at senior level (subject to substantiation), but also the Ministry would get to hear Bloggs' moans before the press (or, dare I say it Pprune), which is in the interests of the Service.
2. Confidentiality is a must - both for Bloggs with the snag and AVM Bloggs who wants to know the 'state of the service'.
Contradicting myself slightly, you then have to consider if strike action is off-limits, what are the teeth of the organisation ?
Perhaps, just perhaps, AVM Bloggs is kept unaware of the mood on the shop floor and WOULD do something tangible if only he/she knew. Hhmm, am I dreaming ?
3. I suggest it is paramount that the ethos of any military 'federation' be to complement the Service and not hinder it when it comes to operations. With the right balance it can do just that and solve all kinds of comms problems that currently exist. It's no good saying the Forces are working to rule because there's no toilet roll in Basra, but the hierarchy could at least listen to concerns first - perhaps even act - while any Fed Mag could also pass comment on existing policies and so on. Doesn't have to be militant at all, will promote two-way corporate comms AND could save the Forces millions in internal and external propaganda pamphlets !
The fact that we're discussing it here shows we need SOMETHING, but get it wrong and we'll be meeting Jimmy Hoffa
I'm willing to help but I'm not sure where to start. A few things to consider, I suggest are:
1. By design it has to be an improvement for British Forces as a whole, not a radical thorn in the side of the Govt. By that I mean it can't just be an arbitrary 'phone a moan' everytime Bloggs gets fizzed for being late for work. There would have to be, for want of a better word, a code of conduct. Bloggs, on the one hand, would get his moans heard at senior level (subject to substantiation), but also the Ministry would get to hear Bloggs' moans before the press (or, dare I say it Pprune), which is in the interests of the Service.
2. Confidentiality is a must - both for Bloggs with the snag and AVM Bloggs who wants to know the 'state of the service'.
Contradicting myself slightly, you then have to consider if strike action is off-limits, what are the teeth of the organisation ?
Perhaps, just perhaps, AVM Bloggs is kept unaware of the mood on the shop floor and WOULD do something tangible if only he/she knew. Hhmm, am I dreaming ?
3. I suggest it is paramount that the ethos of any military 'federation' be to complement the Service and not hinder it when it comes to operations. With the right balance it can do just that and solve all kinds of comms problems that currently exist. It's no good saying the Forces are working to rule because there's no toilet roll in Basra, but the hierarchy could at least listen to concerns first - perhaps even act - while any Fed Mag could also pass comment on existing policies and so on. Doesn't have to be militant at all, will promote two-way corporate comms AND could save the Forces millions in internal and external propaganda pamphlets !
The fact that we're discussing it here shows we need SOMETHING, but get it wrong and we'll be meeting Jimmy Hoffa
Federation?
Tigs2
I'm not sure which Police Federation you've observed to work well. The standing joke in Lancashire was that the force was offered 6% pay rise, but the fed. negociated it down to 4%!
I'm not sure which Police Federation you've observed to work well. The standing joke in Lancashire was that the force was offered 6% pay rise, but the fed. negociated it down to 4%!
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Why all the surprise? This company treats it's staff atrociously at the best of times, sad as it is. Almost like the Top Floor think that HMForces would be a great company, if it were not for the people. Oh well, as long as they get their next stripe!
