Views on AAC
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Views on AAC
Good evening Gents.
Now, I know how some of you feel about "wannabee's" posting on this forum, but I am after sincere and honest advice from you please and I promise to keep this short!
At 25 years old, I am considering leaving civvy street and have enquired about Officer enlistment within, among other branches, the AAC.
Having searched the Pprune forums for previous advice, the picture that I am building of an Officers role within the AAC is quite a cr**** one! Pen-pushing and admin but not an awful lot of flying, which wasn't the result I was hoping for!
What realistically could an AAC Officer hope to achieve in say, 10 years of Army life?
Does anyone have any further opinions upon this? Admittedly, there were not many threads of use, so I am hoping for some good opinions from you guys please.
Many thanks,
SS
Now, I know how some of you feel about "wannabee's" posting on this forum, but I am after sincere and honest advice from you please and I promise to keep this short!
At 25 years old, I am considering leaving civvy street and have enquired about Officer enlistment within, among other branches, the AAC.
Having searched the Pprune forums for previous advice, the picture that I am building of an Officers role within the AAC is quite a cr**** one! Pen-pushing and admin but not an awful lot of flying, which wasn't the result I was hoping for!
What realistically could an AAC Officer hope to achieve in say, 10 years of Army life?
Does anyone have any further opinions upon this? Admittedly, there were not many threads of use, so I am hoping for some good opinions from you guys please.
Many thanks,
SS
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Stu, you haven't said what your aspirations are or what job you presently do. An AAC officer is an Army Officer and therefore will have a short flying career but a lengthy one in Army Aviation. If you want to stay in the cockpit then look at the Air Force.
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I'd say give it a try - if you get on AH then the army can't afford to have you flying a desk (at least that's the theory!!) - there are big changes afoot in the Corps and the flying rates are slowly improving, so it's not all doom and gloom!!
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It pains me to say this but as a non army officer who has served on an AAC unit I honestly couldn't recommend that you join the Air Corps as a commisioned rank. If you are lucky you may get a second tour of flying but then this penalises you later in your career against the rest of the regular army (if thats important to you). My advice would be to join the Air Force or Fleet Air Arm if flying is your priority.
I have to agree. As a serving AAC officer, the flying was great while it lasted, but now I've gone from Hero to Zero, shining my backside at a job which has as much to do with flying as Army Recruiting Officers have with honesty.
Cryptkeeper's theory is just that - a theory. Pity it doesn't hold any water. I once thought that surely with Apache things would change, and I notice a lot of young officers I have met recently think the same thing but it ain't gonna be so unless there is a radical overhaul - and when I say radical, I mean Socialist Worker saying the monarchy is a good idea!
At 25, even if you start RMAS in January, you'll be 26 when you finish, 27 and a half to 28 when you finish your pilot's course. There are changes in career structuring, so in theory you could do 2 tours of flying but at you age I wouldn't bank on it - as it is you'll be starting your first flying tour when most people have finished their second!
Don't want to rain on your parade, but as the Lt Col leading the Apache Briefing roadshow once said to a chap who was impertinent enough to suggest he might actually like to fly it -
"If you wanted to fly, you should have joined the RAF!"
...and that is the truth as those stunned people who were at the brief will testify.
Still think I'm just being pessimistic? Well ask yourself this:
Do you think that the AAC has any difficulty in attracting young officers?
Answer - of course not.
Well why then, is it two-thirds undermanned in the rank of Captain, a mere 4 to 6 years after brimming with talent from Sandhurst?
They ain't all leaving for airline jobs, that's for sure.
Cryptkeeper's theory is just that - a theory. Pity it doesn't hold any water. I once thought that surely with Apache things would change, and I notice a lot of young officers I have met recently think the same thing but it ain't gonna be so unless there is a radical overhaul - and when I say radical, I mean Socialist Worker saying the monarchy is a good idea!
At 25, even if you start RMAS in January, you'll be 26 when you finish, 27 and a half to 28 when you finish your pilot's course. There are changes in career structuring, so in theory you could do 2 tours of flying but at you age I wouldn't bank on it - as it is you'll be starting your first flying tour when most people have finished their second!
Don't want to rain on your parade, but as the Lt Col leading the Apache Briefing roadshow once said to a chap who was impertinent enough to suggest he might actually like to fly it -
"If you wanted to fly, you should have joined the RAF!"
...and that is the truth as those stunned people who were at the brief will testify.
Still think I'm just being pessimistic? Well ask yourself this:
Do you think that the AAC has any difficulty in attracting young officers?
Answer - of course not.
Well why then, is it two-thirds undermanned in the rank of Captain, a mere 4 to 6 years after brimming with talent from Sandhurst?
They ain't all leaving for airline jobs, that's for sure.
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flygunz, Cryptkeeper, Talksplit, Thom and especially ChristopherRobin, I would like to thank you all for your honest replies.
It is, alas, worse than I initially thought possible!
For a number of years, I have been quite full of enthusiasm for the Corps. but recently I have become aware of rumblings of discontent viz. the Officer role, but I have not been fully aware of the reality!
Of course, as a current GA flyer, the flying is what would have attracted me foremost, even above my strong desire to serve in the British forces.
However, I will still follow the enquiry through because I am also interested in other roles within the British Army, but will seriously consider whether leaving my City career, however ball-crunchingly boring it is, is worthwhile in the long-term!
Again, thank you for your honest opinions which I would have struggled to obtain anywhere else!
Regards,
SS
It is, alas, worse than I initially thought possible!
For a number of years, I have been quite full of enthusiasm for the Corps. but recently I have become aware of rumblings of discontent viz. the Officer role, but I have not been fully aware of the reality!
Of course, as a current GA flyer, the flying is what would have attracted me foremost, even above my strong desire to serve in the British forces.
However, I will still follow the enquiry through because I am also interested in other roles within the British Army, but will seriously consider whether leaving my City career, however ball-crunchingly boring it is, is worthwhile in the long-term!
Again, thank you for your honest opinions which I would have struggled to obtain anywhere else!
Regards,
SS
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Why are these threads always the same!
ie: I'd like to fly etc etc, followed with "not with us mate etc etc"
I have had the good fortune to fly with the Corps for a number of years and have met a great bunch of people in my time, had some fantastic fun, learnt to fly, and been well paid for it!
I have said this before, there is something special about life in the military and if flying is all you want, then try civvy street as military flying includes a lot of down time. Which, I have to add is often the best time!
If you want a challange, try the Army, you never know you might like it.
ie: I'd like to fly etc etc, followed with "not with us mate etc etc"
I have had the good fortune to fly with the Corps for a number of years and have met a great bunch of people in my time, had some fantastic fun, learnt to fly, and been well paid for it!
I have said this before, there is something special about life in the military and if flying is all you want, then try civvy street as military flying includes a lot of down time. Which, I have to add is often the best time!
If you want a challange, try the Army, you never know you might like it.
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Mutley
Its a fair comment but look at the question from Stu. If he was asking about a career as an Army Officer then different answers all round, but he wants to fly. No one would deny its a great life, I had a fantastic 23 yrs in the AAC and would tell anyone to give it a shot but whats the point in lying about what a regular officer is likely to expect?
Christopher Robin is particulary bitter and perhaps you have to balance what he says with a little less emotion. He is correct though and the AAC has to decide what it wants from its regular officers. Right now the emphasis is getting high quality people through staff college and then into influential positions where they can make a difference.
Flying is unimportant when that is the game plan, thats why the AAC has sncos and LEs as its aviator base.
Personally I dont think a career as an AAC officer is so bad and sometimes the bigger picture of aviation takes preference. Also, read and listen to the RAF threads here and elswhere, lots of complaints of excessive time away. Talk to a C130 pilot and you will begin to get a picture. I dont think that would bother Stu though.
Its a fair comment but look at the question from Stu. If he was asking about a career as an Army Officer then different answers all round, but he wants to fly. No one would deny its a great life, I had a fantastic 23 yrs in the AAC and would tell anyone to give it a shot but whats the point in lying about what a regular officer is likely to expect?
Christopher Robin is particulary bitter and perhaps you have to balance what he says with a little less emotion. He is correct though and the AAC has to decide what it wants from its regular officers. Right now the emphasis is getting high quality people through staff college and then into influential positions where they can make a difference.
Flying is unimportant when that is the game plan, thats why the AAC has sncos and LEs as its aviator base.
Personally I dont think a career as an AAC officer is so bad and sometimes the bigger picture of aviation takes preference. Also, read and listen to the RAF threads here and elswhere, lots of complaints of excessive time away. Talk to a C130 pilot and you will begin to get a picture. I dont think that would bother Stu though.
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Stu,
I'll give you some really good career advice, free of charge and possibly take some flak as well !! You obviously a switched on cookie, and I'll say that because your working in the City, you have suddenly decided that life means more then being bored and earning lots of money. You want a challenge, and a career in Army flying, and have thought about becoming an AAC officer pilot. Excellent choice at 25 years of age (Oh Man, I wish I could do that at 36 !!). But, the soldier side of the AAC is, I believe, an excellent career path for any individual who has common sense and intelligence, and ability to work and get the job done without resorting to being constantly lead by others. Do you fit into this category? If you believe you have these qualities (and more), you'll fly through the career structure, and get promotion fast. Then (and I don't believe the rules have changed) after four years you can go forward for flying selection. If you pass and become a fully fledged AAC pilot, you can look forward to MANY happy years of flying, from Corporal right through to WO1. And if you are a switched on cookie, there is nothing to stop you seeking a commission 10-15-20 years down the line. I have had loads of friends join up, promoted, become a pilot, promoted, and now seeking commissions.
Yes, this path may be long and hard, but so is trying to become an officer. If your headstrong and determined you'll be rewarded (with lots of Army flying). Plus the soldier side offers an excellent social life, more courses then you'd care to take, more variety to postings, a decent wage (considering after your food and accommodation is taken out, the rest is yours to keep) and lots of local women, dying to meet a squaddie every Saturday night !
What more could you ask for?
Good Luck !
I'll give you some really good career advice, free of charge and possibly take some flak as well !! You obviously a switched on cookie, and I'll say that because your working in the City, you have suddenly decided that life means more then being bored and earning lots of money. You want a challenge, and a career in Army flying, and have thought about becoming an AAC officer pilot. Excellent choice at 25 years of age (Oh Man, I wish I could do that at 36 !!). But, the soldier side of the AAC is, I believe, an excellent career path for any individual who has common sense and intelligence, and ability to work and get the job done without resorting to being constantly lead by others. Do you fit into this category? If you believe you have these qualities (and more), you'll fly through the career structure, and get promotion fast. Then (and I don't believe the rules have changed) after four years you can go forward for flying selection. If you pass and become a fully fledged AAC pilot, you can look forward to MANY happy years of flying, from Corporal right through to WO1. And if you are a switched on cookie, there is nothing to stop you seeking a commission 10-15-20 years down the line. I have had loads of friends join up, promoted, become a pilot, promoted, and now seeking commissions.
Yes, this path may be long and hard, but so is trying to become an officer. If your headstrong and determined you'll be rewarded (with lots of Army flying). Plus the soldier side offers an excellent social life, more courses then you'd care to take, more variety to postings, a decent wage (considering after your food and accommodation is taken out, the rest is yours to keep) and lots of local women, dying to meet a squaddie every Saturday night !
What more could you ask for?
Good Luck !
Last edited by thom; 27th Sep 2002 at 12:19.
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If flying is the important issue then there is only one choice, the RAF. I have friends in all 3 services and all have their own opinion, but the overwhelming concesus is that the RAF treats it's people better and that the flying (plenty of it) is generally better.
Mind you, these are just opinions. The NCO aircrew route in the AAC is an option, however, be very sure that this is what ou want to do before committing yourself.
Best of luck!
Mind you, these are just opinions. The NCO aircrew route in the AAC is an option, however, be very sure that this is what ou want to do before committing yourself.
Best of luck!
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Stu, I'm a SNCO in the RAF - and I'm also aircrew! I'm obviously not a pilot because SNCOs were responsible enough to fly in the second world war but not responsible enough to drop the bomb!!! Anyway - I've seen lots of army and navy guys come across to the air force both on attachments and transfers and without exception all have said that they wished they had done it long ago!!! You are treated ( I believe ) much more like a human being in the air force - and again this is something they generally commented on as well.
However, it's not all a bed of roses! There is unfortunately in the air force a LOT of holding involved in flying training - two years of sitting around scratching your ar$e is quite common. While this sounds great - no responsibility, getting paid and pi$$ing it up - it is I'm afraid quite soul destroying and really saps the initial enthusiasm! Which really is a great pity! Best advice is to try to talk to a young PO, FO or Flt Lt going through or having recently gone through training for the horses mouth ! But again be warned - sometimes the idea of having ' got there' dulls the memory a little. Anyway whatever you decide best of luck mate - make no rash decisions and if you can, ask at RAF CIO for exact details of flying training and double check all facts!!!!!
However, it's not all a bed of roses! There is unfortunately in the air force a LOT of holding involved in flying training - two years of sitting around scratching your ar$e is quite common. While this sounds great - no responsibility, getting paid and pi$$ing it up - it is I'm afraid quite soul destroying and really saps the initial enthusiasm! Which really is a great pity! Best advice is to try to talk to a young PO, FO or Flt Lt going through or having recently gone through training for the horses mouth ! But again be warned - sometimes the idea of having ' got there' dulls the memory a little. Anyway whatever you decide best of luck mate - make no rash decisions and if you can, ask at RAF CIO for exact details of flying training and double check all facts!!!!!
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9.81 - a bit pessimistic on the holding situation at the moment. The legendary 2 or 3 year holds were happening 8-10 years ago; recently people have been going from IOT to fast-jet OCUs with only a couple of months off total! Having said that, Valley is starting to clog up a bit, but I can't see a return to the long holds of yesteryear. Friends in the rotary stream seem to have gone through very smoothly as well, and not aware of snags at METS, so I would say you don't need to budget in any more than, say, 8 months in total for holding.
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Option 3 of course is to take a commission in another cap badge and apply for a secondment to the AAC as a pilot for a period of up to 5 years. You will then be eligible to apply for a transfer, however if you aren't successful you will have to return to your original employment for anything up to 3 years. Again, there will be mixed views and age may count against you as you are fast pushing the upper limit for direct entry, but if you pick up the phone to the SO3 recruiting at Middle Wallop, explain your position and ask to speak to people he should be able to arrange that.
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Stu, as someone who was in the Forces and is now in the City I can vouch for the sense in joining up and leaving the grey and dismal office life behind. Money is not everything and that is all that the City offers. Why do you think there are so few middle aged to older people in the City? Folks make as much as they can for as long as they can stand it and then leave. It's a fact.
You've got one chance to join the Forces. Do it now while you can and you'll probably be glad you did. If you don't you'll always wonder. You can always come back to the City but you can't join the Forces if you miss the boat now.
If you join the Forces you'll meet great people, get to experience real camraderie and have a pride in yourself that you will definitely not have if you remain where you are. You'll get more stories out of your basic training than a life time in the City could afford.
All good advice on the previous postings however I would urge a note of caution on joining the AAC as a soldier in the hope that you can get selected for aircrew after four years. A lot get this carrot dangled in front of them but never get to realise their dream four years down the line. Personally with hindsight I'd take kbf1's advice and join under another cap badge and then do a secondment.
You've got one chance to join the Forces. Do it now while you can and you'll probably be glad you did. If you don't you'll always wonder. You can always come back to the City but you can't join the Forces if you miss the boat now.
If you join the Forces you'll meet great people, get to experience real camraderie and have a pride in yourself that you will definitely not have if you remain where you are. You'll get more stories out of your basic training than a life time in the City could afford.
All good advice on the previous postings however I would urge a note of caution on joining the AAC as a soldier in the hope that you can get selected for aircrew after four years. A lot get this carrot dangled in front of them but never get to realise their dream four years down the line. Personally with hindsight I'd take kbf1's advice and join under another cap badge and then do a secondment.
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And now for some urgent news:
If you want a commission you have to start at Sandhurst before your 26th birthday, and if you want your pilots course, you have to complete it before your 32nd birthday.
Better get a wriggle on!!!!!!!
If you want a commission you have to start at Sandhurst before your 26th birthday, and if you want your pilots course, you have to complete it before your 32nd birthday.
Better get a wriggle on!!!!!!!
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A lot of info and much of it sound. The bottom line is if you are thinking of the AAC speak to the RLO chap at Middle Wallop who WILL be able to help you. Call 01980 67100 and they should give you the number for the RLO HQ DAAVN Middle Wallop. I have been AAC for many years, have flown all over the world during both training and on ops and I would recommend it highly. It is not perfect (the army and the corps) but the good well outweighs the bad by some margin. The AH is an exciting beast for the MOD and hence the AAC is well in the forefront of many important proples thoughts, an exciting place to be for sure. (I am on Lynx as the name suggests). Best of luck with the enquiries. Post back if you need further.
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If you realy want to fly, JOIN THE RAF. Speaking with experience, DO NOT join the AAC as a soldier with the intention of flying, i did, and you'll find that alike most others CORPS they're undermanned and and your pilot application will find its way into 'file 13' i.e. the bin! If you're a half switched on cookie, the AAC will want to keep you as a groung pounder. My advice to you is the you join another CORPs, i believe artillery is the best (PS I'm a loggie), and then transfer to the AAC but be prepared to spend much time behind a desk. If you join the RAF, You are more likely to fly for longer.
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Probably giving the game away here but why not consider the Fleet Air Arm? In terms of flying hours available they at least compete with the RAF. As an RN officer you will have other duties such as division of Matelot's to look after but hey, thats what being an officer is all about. As for the RAF flying being better, well thats just c**p. Admittedly if all you want to do is fly jets then go light blue but ask any Junglie pilot if he/she thinks their job is dull when it comes to flying and you will get some pretty abrupt answers! As for holdovers, they are near non-existent in the pipeline now. Finally lets face it, the uniform is by far the flashiest of the three services, and ALL the women love it!!!
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I'm a little lost at your entry, in that you state that an application for pilot training will end up in File 13. No command can do that to any rank serving in the AAC or other Regt/Corps. An application has to be pushed through all phases and cannot be withheld except for operational reasons, as published in (me thinks) QR's. A 'switched-on cookie' is a much valued person in any Regt/Corps, but again, you cannot be withheld from selection, whether its pilot, SAS or whatever just because your an excellent 'ground pounder'. Sure, the AAC is like any other Corps, in that the path to whatever you want to do maybe long and hard, but it's littered with many individuals who have no ambition to progress, so a little effort pays and you will be rewarded. I think I can honestly say, that out of all my friends who I served with, those who had ambitions to be pilots, are now pilots. Those who aspired to do other things (RSI, Training, NBC instructor, etc), are doing them, and those who I served with who were less then switched on and had no ambition, are still troopers or lance jacks (even after 10 years.... GULP !!) on ground crew duties, or are now civvies.
I believe you can be whatever you want to be in the AAC, but there is only one person who can put you there, and that's you.
I'm a little lost at your entry, in that you state that an application for pilot training will end up in File 13. No command can do that to any rank serving in the AAC or other Regt/Corps. An application has to be pushed through all phases and cannot be withheld except for operational reasons, as published in (me thinks) QR's. A 'switched-on cookie' is a much valued person in any Regt/Corps, but again, you cannot be withheld from selection, whether its pilot, SAS or whatever just because your an excellent 'ground pounder'. Sure, the AAC is like any other Corps, in that the path to whatever you want to do maybe long and hard, but it's littered with many individuals who have no ambition to progress, so a little effort pays and you will be rewarded. I think I can honestly say, that out of all my friends who I served with, those who had ambitions to be pilots, are now pilots. Those who aspired to do other things (RSI, Training, NBC instructor, etc), are doing them, and those who I served with who were less then switched on and had no ambition, are still troopers or lance jacks (even after 10 years.... GULP !!) on ground crew duties, or are now civvies.
I believe you can be whatever you want to be in the AAC, but there is only one person who can put you there, and that's you.