Tutor Replacement
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Joined: Jan 2008
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From: Cayley's County - Yorkshire
Tutor Replacement
https://ukdefencejournal.org.uk/uk-s...replace-tutor/
Advance warning of a tender release in October 2026 - with the subsequent capability gap arriving around 2030
Advance warning of a tender release in October 2026 - with the subsequent capability gap arriving around 2030
Joined: Feb 2002
Posts: 1,145
Likes: 232
From: In the State of Denial
Will they go for a proper engine (ICE) or will it have to be electric?
I was on the staff at CFS when the Grob Course Design team was set up across the car park, I can’t believe it’s up for replacement already… (although that was nearly 30 years ago!). There was a suggestion box in their building for names for the Grob with a prize of a bottle of champagne, I wrote ‘Tutor’ as my suggestion but I’d left the station and gone back to Lyneham by the time the competition ended so I never received my prize although they couldn’t have tried very hard to find me…!
Unless of course there was more than one suggestion of that name…? Whatever, I still like to think I named it and I’m still flying it today.
I was on the staff at CFS when the Grob Course Design team was set up across the car park, I can’t believe it’s up for replacement already… (although that was nearly 30 years ago!). There was a suggestion box in their building for names for the Grob with a prize of a bottle of champagne, I wrote ‘Tutor’ as my suggestion but I’d left the station and gone back to Lyneham by the time the competition ended so I never received my prize although they couldn’t have tried very hard to find me…!
Unless of course there was more than one suggestion of that name…? Whatever, I still like to think I named it and I’m still flying it today.
Joined: May 1999
Aviation Qualifications: ATP+Mil
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From: Quite near 'An aerodrome somewhere in England'
The CFI at ULAS back in 1969/1970 told us that he'd been to a conference to look at the Chipmunk replacement. Contenders were the Bulldog (already ordered by Sweden), a Pitts of some sort, a Zlin of some sort or the SF260. The SF260 was deemed 'too complicated' and the retractable undercarriage worried some. Zlin was East European, which was awkward for a British military order and the Pitts, though nice to fly, didn't have a lot of fuel and wasn't really a basic trainer. Some thought that an updated Chipmunk with a more modern engine would have been better, but Bulldog won the day.
Joined: Jul 2022
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From: Down Sarf
The CFI at ULAS back in 1969/1970 told us that he'd been to a conference to look at the Chipmunk replacement. Contenders were the Bulldog (already ordered by Sweden), a Pitts of some sort, a Zlin of some sort or the SF260. The SF260 was deemed 'too complicated' and the retractable undercarriage worried some. Zlin was East European, which was awkward for a British military order and the Pitts, though nice to fly, didn't have a lot of fuel and wasn't really a basic trainer. Some thought that an updated Chipmunk with a more modern engine would have been better, but Bulldog won the day.
Joined: Feb 2002
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From: In the State of Denial
I had my only experience of an AEF flight as the passenger in the back of a Chipmunk at Woodvale in 1987. I wasn’t an ATC cadet, I was a UAS APO student who happened to be staying in the OM and blagged a trip on a Friday afternoon.
The experience was a little underwhelming, I don’t recall the pilot speaking to me except to warn me he was going to do his aeros, the overall impression was that it was more for his benefit than mine. I had logged around 70 hours by that point so at least I was used to being in an aircraft, what a 13 year old cadet made of being shut in the back of a Chippie, not being spoken to and thrown around I’m not sure.
I definitely channel that experience when I’m flying my RAFAC charges these days - it’s their flight and all about them, I get to throw it around on my SCTs. Being next to them I can observe them closely to ensure they’re ok and do my best to ensure they’re not unwell, nothing kills the joy of aviation in a youngster like air sickness. If it does go badly then I can at least help ensure they get it all in the bag to minimize the mess.
So whatever they do select needs to be side-by-side, aerobatic of course, and possibly one of the new Rotax powered ultralights rather than with a Lycoming lump on the front, to make it a little cheaper to run. The current contract works out at something like £2000/ hour which could surely be provided a bit cheaper.
The experience was a little underwhelming, I don’t recall the pilot speaking to me except to warn me he was going to do his aeros, the overall impression was that it was more for his benefit than mine. I had logged around 70 hours by that point so at least I was used to being in an aircraft, what a 13 year old cadet made of being shut in the back of a Chippie, not being spoken to and thrown around I’m not sure.
I definitely channel that experience when I’m flying my RAFAC charges these days - it’s their flight and all about them, I get to throw it around on my SCTs. Being next to them I can observe them closely to ensure they’re ok and do my best to ensure they’re not unwell, nothing kills the joy of aviation in a youngster like air sickness. If it does go badly then I can at least help ensure they get it all in the bag to minimize the mess.
So whatever they do select needs to be side-by-side, aerobatic of course, and possibly one of the new Rotax powered ultralights rather than with a Lycoming lump on the front, to make it a little cheaper to run. The current contract works out at something like £2000/ hour which could surely be provided a bit cheaper.
Joined: Nov 2005
Aviation Qualifications: PPL
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From: Wildest Surrey
My first dual flight as an ATC cadet back in '62 was in a Piston Provost. Never liked the Chipmunk much after that although I had quite a few flights in them but to be seated next to the pilot so he could demonstrate how to handle the controls was much better. Never flew in a Bulldog; (although I did fly a Pup 100 for a short time) unlikely to fly in a Tutor.
There are lots of choices for a 2 seat side by side aircraft starting with microlights; my first of these I flew was a Cyclone AX3 which had a central stick and was easy to fly albeit a bit slow (55 mph ish) but was excellent for air experience flying (bit like a Sedbergh as regards control response) but when HQAC (nowadays it would be 2 FTS) evaluated them at Halton they decided they didn't like the Rotax engines although they did allow us to operate them for AEF with a special blood chit adapted from the example in AP1919.
A 20 min trip meant you had time to demonstrate primary and further effects; climb a bit longer and you could demonstrate stalling. This aircraft was non aerobatic so that was another reason for the stuffed shirt brigade to turn it down but at least it got cadets airborne especially if they were on a first flight.
We did operate Chevvron 2-32s later gaining 19 Microlight Flying Scholarships funded by HQAC until the money ran out.
There are lots of choices for a 2 seat side by side aircraft starting with microlights; my first of these I flew was a Cyclone AX3 which had a central stick and was easy to fly albeit a bit slow (55 mph ish) but was excellent for air experience flying (bit like a Sedbergh as regards control response) but when HQAC (nowadays it would be 2 FTS) evaluated them at Halton they decided they didn't like the Rotax engines although they did allow us to operate them for AEF with a special blood chit adapted from the example in AP1919.
A 20 min trip meant you had time to demonstrate primary and further effects; climb a bit longer and you could demonstrate stalling. This aircraft was non aerobatic so that was another reason for the stuffed shirt brigade to turn it down but at least it got cadets airborne especially if they were on a first flight.
We did operate Chevvron 2-32s later gaining 19 Microlight Flying Scholarships funded by HQAC until the money ran out.
Last edited by chevvron; 7th August 2025 at 15:25.
Joined: Apr 2008
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From: Ashwell
I believe the Victa Airtourer was considered for the Chipmunk replacement but the RAF didn't like the central stick and Victa wouldn't replace it. Ironically when the Kiwis built it they did replace it and the RAAF bought a bunch. I believe it's just been revamped again with a bigger engine and glass screens. Could be a possible contender?
Joined: May 2003
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From: The 24th & a Half Century
If an industry player went at risk & purchased c75 aircraft (CAPEX c£38m) it shouldn’t be too difficult to unseat the incumbent. Full aerobatic capability and side-by-side seating limits you to 2 potential options which are:
https://www.zlinaircraft.eu/Airplanes/Z-242-L-ZEUS-EN/
or,
https://aura-aero.com/en/integral/integral-r/#video
Both EASA certified, shouldn’t be too difficult to comply with CAP 562 and Leaflet B-20. Of course, I’m sure somebody is about to say Swift 🫣
https://www.zlinaircraft.eu/Airplanes/Z-242-L-ZEUS-EN/
or,
https://aura-aero.com/en/integral/integral-r/#video
Both EASA certified, shouldn’t be too difficult to comply with CAP 562 and Leaflet B-20. Of course, I’m sure somebody is about to say Swift 🫣
Joined: Feb 2002
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From: In the State of Denial
What's wrong with just buying PA-28s or 172s ?
Joined: Dec 2007
Aviation Qualifications: PPL
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From: Westnoreastsouth
The experience was a little underwhelming, I don’t recall the pilot speaking to me except to warn me he was going to do his aeros, the overall impression was that it was more for his benefit than mine. I had logged around 70 hours by that point so at least I was used to being in an aircraft, what a 13 year old cadet made of being shut in the back of a Chippie, not being spoken to and thrown around I’m not sure.
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I did lots of Chippie flying both as a cadet and also whilst groundcrew on 6 AEF,most pilots were very good at chatting to cadets to put them at their ease.The Chippie was a lovely a/c to fly,my impression of the Bulldog was that whilst it was lovely to see ahead
- it's handling was not quite as nice as the Chippie - of course the 'Dog also had more power Joined: May 1999
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From: Quite near 'An aerodrome somewhere in England'
Swift has yet to fly, Z242 has limited rearwards visibility, but the Integral S looks very promising.
Hopefully no weeny-greeny electric or ultralight nonsense though!
Hopefully no weeny-greeny electric or ultralight nonsense though!
Joined: Jul 2003
Aviation Qualifications: Military (Retired)
Posts: 2,692
Likes: 1,532
From: Near the coast
Trim it out
I can’t help but agree with you. However, after precisely zero research I’m willing to bet that the Prefect is not a very cheap option. I’d be delighted to be proven wrong though.
BV
BV
Joined: Jun 2016
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From: Alles Über
