Tutor Replacement
Joined: Dec 2001
Aviation Qualifications: Military
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From: The Roman Empire
Why bother to give Air Cadets air experience?
Just buy a whole load of cheap drones and get them flying those. Much more cost effective, and by the time they grow up (scheme starts in 2030, a 13 year old cadet wioild be 18 in 2035) that will be the way ahead.
Just buy a whole load of cheap drones and get them flying those. Much more cost effective, and by the time they grow up (scheme starts in 2030, a 13 year old cadet wioild be 18 in 2035) that will be the way ahead.
Last edited by Biggus; 8th August 2025 at 06:44.
Joined: Jan 2017
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From: Suffolk
On which note perhaps a mixed fleet of t
Integra with electric aircraft for the parts of the syllabus they suit?
Joined: May 1999
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From: Quite near 'An aerodrome somewhere in England'
Is the Bristell XLB Turbine aerobatic? If so, it would make good sense to have an all turboprop training fleet before whatever replaces the Hawk.
Joined: Jan 2017
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From: Suffolk
Robin was planning to put one in their DR401, I think they'd do a turbine Cap10 if anyone asked? A wooden turbine taildragger would have a certain charm...
Joined: Aug 2020
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From: UK
tech roadmap means there are new IT thingies coming online, and insertion means new flyers will use the new tech at RAF Valley, It's a bit like you describing the bits of high end HI FI components you're in the process of buying, and saying it'll be in the living room when assembled ;-)
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From: Wildest Surrey
Joined: May 2009
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From: Here
That's ... Interesting.
Keeping on this topic, if Tutor replacement is for just AEF and UAS, is it worth looking at a 4 seater? 3x the number of cadets given air experience per flight.
Joined: May 2003
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From: London/Oxford/New York
I do wonder at the senior RAF folks who approve things like this. So a student pilots first ever aeroplane will be T-6 Texan? No multi engine conversion training whatsoever?
Joined: Dec 2004
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From: Cluedo
Aside from the sheer cost delta between a Phenom 100 and a FL type in terms of hourly operating costs, I wonder if anyone currently nesting on cloud cuckoo land has considered the impact on airframes & instructors required on the FL to deliver a substantially “beefed up” OCU to those without ANY multi engine multi crew jet experience. The students get little enough as it is (especially live flying).
Regarding Tutor replacement-my money is on something light and rotax powered. Perhaps electric? Wasn't there a Pipistrel trial at Cranwell a few years back? Would be interesting to hear the battery endurance and charging time vs a full tank of fuel and a quick refuel.
Joined: Nov 2005
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From: Wildest Surrey
From a personal point of view (having flown microlights during the period of AEF at RAF Halton between 1991 and 1997) select something like a Rotax 912 engine in an airframe of about 600kg max for elementary flying training for both cadet AEF and UAS with both doing elementary flying training ie learning how to fly the aircraft and pilot navigation etc then the UAS students go on to the Prefect for the more advanced parts of the syllabus like aerobatics.
But as I said that's just my personal view.
By the way, the Pipistrelle trial with the electric motor was OK but you have to factor in a safety margin for how much 'charge' will be needed for what duration with a safety margin plus re-charge time in between sorties; I think something like 40 minutes was the minimum re-charge time but I could be wrong.
Joined: Feb 2002
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From: In the State of Denial
Some years ago I was a QFI on the C130J when they cut 15 hours out of the MELIN cse at Cranwell. A brilliant wheeze from some staff officer to ‘save’ money in training which no doubt boosted their promotion prospects. So we received student co-pilots with even less experience who if they needed any flex (which many did) to make up the deficiency then blew the ‘savings’ - £3000 for a flex sortie in the simulator, circa £15000 per hour in the aircraft.
If they’re going from a T6 straight to an operational ME type then the cost of any additional training would blow any savings out of the water. Although the modern ME types aren’t as demanding to fly engines-out as those of old you still need to learn on a small, cheaper aircraft rather than an A330 or A400.
My father-in-law went from the Vampire T33 at the end of his training in 1960 straight to the Shackleton without doing ME training on the Varsity, he described the experience as ‘quite tricky…!’
As to having a non-aerobatic aircraft for AEF, it would take away a key part of what the kids love and you might have fewer volunteers to be pilots too. As for a 4-seater, almost all of my cadets love doing the flying themselves and it helps distract them from feeling airsick. With 2 pax in the back seats you’d be almost guaranteed to have at least one throw up on every flight so you’d never get anything done.
If they’re going from a T6 straight to an operational ME type then the cost of any additional training would blow any savings out of the water. Although the modern ME types aren’t as demanding to fly engines-out as those of old you still need to learn on a small, cheaper aircraft rather than an A330 or A400.
My father-in-law went from the Vampire T33 at the end of his training in 1960 straight to the Shackleton without doing ME training on the Varsity, he described the experience as ‘quite tricky…!’
As to having a non-aerobatic aircraft for AEF, it would take away a key part of what the kids love and you might have fewer volunteers to be pilots too. As for a 4-seater, almost all of my cadets love doing the flying themselves and it helps distract them from feeling airsick. With 2 pax in the back seats you’d be almost guaranteed to have at least one throw up on every flight so you’d never get anything done.
Joined: May 1999
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From: Quite near 'An aerodrome somewhere in England'
We had a student who arrived on the VC10K course who had been off sick during his Jetstream Refresher course. Not only that but he had never flown solo at night and hadn't even finished the few hours they'd given him. He found the course quite challenging at first, but did OK in the end.
Teaching people to fly night close formation in the '10 who hadn't flown close formation during ealier training was quite stress-inducing and I didn't think that it was a terribly good idea.
Another student arrived who had never been taught jet engine theory - he thought that 83% rpm meant 83% thrust. I rang the ME groundschool at Cranwell and they told me that the only engine lecture they did was for the Astazou....... But he went on to do extremely well both on the VC10K and on other large ME aircraft.
Teaching people to fly night close formation in the '10 who hadn't flown close formation during ealier training was quite stress-inducing and I didn't think that it was a terribly good idea.
Another student arrived who had never been taught jet engine theory - he thought that 83% rpm meant 83% thrust. I rang the ME groundschool at Cranwell and they told me that the only engine lecture they did was for the Astazou....... But he went on to do extremely well both on the VC10K and on other large ME aircraft.
Joined: Nov 2005
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From: Wildest Surrey
Didn't the spec for the RAF version of the Bulldog originally cater for seats in the back?
Joined: Feb 2002
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From: In the State of Denial
Didn't the spec for the RAF version of the Bulldog originally cater for seats in the back?
Guest
Joined: Oct 2006
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From: Scotland
Will they go for a proper engine (ICE) or will it have to be electric?
I was on the staff at CFS when the Grob Course Design team was set up across the car park, I can’t believe it’s up for replacement already… (although that was nearly 30 years ago!). There was a suggestion box in their building for names for the Grob with a prize of a bottle of champagne, I wrote ‘Tutor’ as my suggestion but I’d left the station and gone back to Lyneham by the time the competition ended so I never received my prize although they couldn’t have tried very hard to find me…!
Unless of course there was more than one suggestion of that name…? Whatever, I still like to think I named it and I’m still flying it today.
I was on the staff at CFS when the Grob Course Design team was set up across the car park, I can’t believe it’s up for replacement already… (although that was nearly 30 years ago!). There was a suggestion box in their building for names for the Grob with a prize of a bottle of champagne, I wrote ‘Tutor’ as my suggestion but I’d left the station and gone back to Lyneham by the time the competition ended so I never received my prize although they couldn’t have tried very hard to find me…!
Unless of course there was more than one suggestion of that name…? Whatever, I still like to think I named it and I’m still flying it today.
Last edited by Deep Throat; 9th August 2025 at 11:11.