Red Arrows Replacement............
Ecce Homo! Loquitur...
Joined: Jul 2000
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From: Peripatetic
IOC for the USAF has slipped to 2028, mainly due to massive supply chain problems. When they are solved priority will go to trying to catch up on the existing USAF order for 350 which will mx out the supply chain even further.
That’s before you look at any changes required for UK certification and service needs. 7-10 years?
That’s before you look at any changes required for UK certification and service needs. 7-10 years?
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From: Near the coast
Aeralis
I see they’re back to the old jet design again. The wings appear to be halfway between low wing and high wing. It looks like a stubbier combination of Alphajet and M346.
So, basically, they still have absolutely no idea what their final design will be. They are just certain that they want to build an aircraft.
I had expected BAE to buy the concept and come up with a proposal in the next few years. But BAE have thrown their hat in the ring with Boeing and Saab. That for me is basically the final nail in the coffin of the Aeralis concept.
BV
So, basically, they still have absolutely no idea what their final design will be. They are just certain that they want to build an aircraft.
I had expected BAE to buy the concept and come up with a proposal in the next few years. But BAE have thrown their hat in the ring with Boeing and Saab. That for me is basically the final nail in the coffin of the Aeralis concept.
BV
Last edited by Bob Viking; 20th November 2025 at 15:15.
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From: Quite near 'An aerodrome somewhere in England'
BAe/Boeing/SAAB T-7A RedHawks would appear to be the best option. I can't see whatever Aerolas dream up next being a worthwhile contender.
Last edited by BEagle; 20th November 2025 at 20:09.
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From: Wildest Surrey
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From: the far south
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From: Royal Berkshire
Have to sadly agree with that.
The Reds were fantastic for the RAF of the 60's, 70's & 80's, era but seem completely at odds with the massively reduced size (and contractorised) RAF of the 2020's and onwards (even more so as we move into ever more UAV use)
The Reds were fantastic for the RAF of the 60's, 70's & 80's, era but seem completely at odds with the massively reduced size (and contractorised) RAF of the 2020's and onwards (even more so as we move into ever more UAV use)
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From: Hampshire
A replacement Red Arrows / AJT aircraft requires first deliveries around 2929. After being ‘forced’ into a political Hawk T2 solution in 2002 there will almost certainly be a competition this time around. This has to be launched next year. The competition will be for a training solution and will specify that contenders must be low risk, in production and certifiable in the UK. This will exclude development and ‘paper’ aircraft.
The only 3 viable contenders are the BAES / Boeing /SAAB T7, the Leonardo 346 and the KAI T50. Realistically looking at UK content and regulations the competition will be between the T7 and the 346 Block20. Either will make an excellent AJT.
The only 3 viable contenders are the BAES / Boeing /SAAB T7, the Leonardo 346 and the KAI T50. Realistically looking at UK content and regulations the competition will be between the T7 and the 346 Block20. Either will make an excellent AJT.
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From: Budapest
A replacement Red Arrows / AJT aircraft requires first deliveries around 2929. After being ‘forced’ into a political Hawk T2 solution in 2002 there will almost certainly be a competition this time around. This has to be launched next year. The competition will be for a training solution and will specify that contenders must be low risk, in production and certifiable in the UK. This will exclude development and ‘paper’ aircraft.
The only 3 viable contenders are the BAES / Boeing /SAAB T7, the Leonardo 346 and the KAI T50. Realistically looking at UK content and regulations the competition will be between the T7 and the 346 Block20. Either will make an excellent AJT.
The only 3 viable contenders are the BAES / Boeing /SAAB T7, the Leonardo 346 and the KAI T50. Realistically looking at UK content and regulations the competition will be between the T7 and the 346 Block20. Either will make an excellent AJT.
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From: Near the coast
Expatrick
If the plan was to go down the low performance route then PC21 would probably be a better option than L39.
If we still view ourselves as a nation that wants a first rate trainer aircraft and Air Force then T7 or T50 should be the best options. M346 is already a little legacy and I have doubts about Leonardo’s ability to produce and support a decent sized fleet. I also worry about the fuel load of the M346 having fought them and seen how quickly they run out of fuel.
BV
If we still view ourselves as a nation that wants a first rate trainer aircraft and Air Force then T7 or T50 should be the best options. M346 is already a little legacy and I have doubts about Leonardo’s ability to produce and support a decent sized fleet. I also worry about the fuel load of the M346 having fought them and seen how quickly they run out of fuel.
BV
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From: the far south
Following an agreement with the Italian Air Force in August 2025, the U.S. Air Force is now training ten of its student pilots at the International Flight Training School (IFST), Decimomannu Air Base, Italy. The two services have partnered to execute an undergraduate flying training program Small Group Tryout, which will test modernized syllabi and streamlined training timelines with the goal of reducing pilot certification to less than one year.
As part of the “Concept of Operations (CONOPS) for Flight Training of the USAF Military Personnel in Italy,” the IFTS was chosen for its proven excellence and ability to offer an innovative and challenging training program, with the Leonardo T-346A jet trainer defined as a further strength behind this agreement
As part of the “Concept of Operations (CONOPS) for Flight Training of the USAF Military Personnel in Italy,” the IFTS was chosen for its proven excellence and ability to offer an innovative and challenging training program, with the Leonardo T-346A jet trainer defined as a further strength behind this agreement
Joined: Oct 2009
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From: the far south
If we got either of the supersonic options they would ( presumably) be much more expensive to buy/operate. So either a smaller fleet or taking money from elsewhere... It would also be a longer wait to get the T-7.
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From: Wildest Surrey