Wikiposts
Search
Military Aviation A forum for the professionals who fly military hardware. Also for the backroom boys and girls who support the flying and maintain the equipment, and without whom nothing would ever leave the ground. All armies, navies and air forces of the world equally welcome here.

NATO vs Russia

Thread Tools
 
Search this Thread
 
Old 31st Jan 2024, 11:09
  #41 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Glorious Devon
Posts: 2,691
Received 880 Likes on 513 Posts
Originally Posted by ORAC
Anders Puck Nielsen, a military expert, has published a YouTube video in which he discusses whether Russia can indeed attack NATO and whether a Russia-NATO war is really possible. His line of thought looks logical to me, so I want to share his conclusions with you.

Mr. Nielsen argues that, while Russia is indeed unable to launch a full-scale invasion against NATO countries, it is quite capable of attempting to break the Alliance apart. Russia is interested in establishing a new geopolitical reality in which NATO ceases to exist and Russia can have bilateral relations with each country separately, not through an "umbrella" of an alliance.

Russia might start by launching a small "military operation" on just one NATO country - Northern Finland seems a possible location. The scale of the strike should be enough to "trigger" Article 5, but not large enough for a guaranteed full-scale response by the NATO forces.

In that case, Russia would watch NATO's response closely. If other NATO countries (and the US, in particular) will decide that it is not necessary to get involved due to the "minor" nature of the incident, that would effectively mean that NATO Alliance is over. And that opens a lot of favorable opportunities for Russia.

If, on the other hand, NATO acts clearly and decisively and shows that the Alliance is indeed willing to go to war for a small piece of "insignificant" land, it is probable that Russia will back off.

What do you think about this scenario?

Source: https://youtu.be/ZY7GPBSyONU?si=VSlzvJwKucWlSPPb
I am sure this thesis was discussed recently on another thread ORAC.
Ninthace is online now  
Old 31st Jan 2024, 14:22
  #42 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Texas
Age: 64
Posts: 7,201
Received 397 Likes on 247 Posts
It sure was, and his entering assumption is necessary but invalid.
However, Putin may test the waters to see what happens.
FAFO.
--------------
Aviation content. Within the past day German jets intercepted Russian aircraft flying close to their (or was in NATO?) airspace.
Maybe Vlad is just living out his second childhood by getting a Second Cold War underway. He's not a young man ...

Last edited by Lonewolf_50; 31st Jan 2024 at 18:38.
Lonewolf_50 is offline  
Old 5th Feb 2024, 16:05
  #43 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Hanging off the end of a thread
Posts: 32,923
Received 2,847 Likes on 1,217 Posts
Swedens Ratification for NATO membership has stalled as Hungary did not turn up.


NutLoose is offline  
Old 5th Feb 2024, 16:52
  #44 (permalink)  

"Mildly" Eccentric Stardriver
 
Join Date: Jan 2000
Location: England
Age: 77
Posts: 4,141
Received 223 Likes on 65 Posts
Originally Posted by NutLoose
Swedens Ratification for NATO membership has stalled as Hungary did not turn up.



https://twitter.com/NOELreports/stat...10895818907659
I thought Hungary had come on side, after Sweden settled some problem concerning the Kurds. Get an agreement, then change your part of it???
Herod is offline  
Old 5th Feb 2024, 17:59
  #45 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Apr 2020
Location: Rhone-Alpes
Posts: 1,172
Received 281 Likes on 158 Posts
Originally Posted by Herod
I thought Hungary had come on side, after Sweden settled some problem concerning the Kurds. Get an agreement, then change your part of it???
When you say " problem concerning the Kurds. " think Turks.not Hungarians. Orban's bête noire is the EU blocking funds ( 10 billion Euros ) to Hungary because of what they see as anti-democratic developments ( interference in justice system, dealing with asylum seekers, homosexual rights etc )
Tartiflette Fan is offline  
Old 5th Feb 2024, 20:31
  #46 (permalink)  

"Mildly" Eccentric Stardriver
 
Join Date: Jan 2000
Location: England
Age: 77
Posts: 4,141
Received 223 Likes on 65 Posts
MY bad, of course Turkey.
Herod is offline  
Old 5th Feb 2024, 22:42
  #47 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Mar 2001
Posts: 1,057
Received 24 Likes on 11 Posts
The Manchurian Candidate ...

...
From the Kyiv Post Jan 31st 2024 ...- ... https://www.kyivpost.com/opinion/27402

Article by Andrei Piontkovsky ...
Donald Trump winning the November general election in the US would be a dangerous disaster for the US, Ukraine, and the West, essentially installing an instrument of the Kremlin in power in Washington, much like in the classic “The Manchurian Candidate” novel and subsequent films.
...
LFH
Lordflasheart is offline  
Old 6th Feb 2024, 00:17
  #48 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: Oz
Posts: 903
Received 16 Likes on 12 Posts
An interesting perspective on the question of nukes.

nomorecatering is offline  
Old 11th Feb 2024, 06:55
  #49 (permalink)  
Ecce Homo! Loquitur...
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Jul 2000
Location: Peripatetic
Posts: 17,400
Received 1,590 Likes on 727 Posts
https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/...dont-pay-bills

Donald Trump says he would encourage Russia to attack Nato allies who pay too little
ORAC is offline  
Old 11th Feb 2024, 07:26
  #50 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Nov 2011
Location: Japan
Posts: 1,955
Received 145 Likes on 88 Posts
Putin was looking at attacking Japan and possibly even taking Hokkaido, but then switched focus to Ukraine.

Trump used to complain constantly that Japan was not paying for the upkeep of US bases in Japan, as if he had heard nothing about the heavy and increasing subsidies US bases already receive there.

This latest outburst (on top of the US Steel buyout block) sounds as if he is encouraging Putin to attack 'NATO allies' anywhere, even, or especially, in Asia.
jolihokistix is offline  
Old 11th Feb 2024, 09:32
  #51 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: UK
Posts: 2,451
Likes: 0
Received 9 Likes on 5 Posts
"Donald Trump says he would encourage Russia to attack Nato allies who pay too little"

Suggests that Trump cannot count as far as 5; article 5 of the NATO charter.
Conversely if you break a commitment then who will trust whom.
'Trust and verify - carry a big stick', but waving a big stick at your allies does not ensure that trust will follow, nor that the resultant situation will reduce US costs long term.
safetypee is offline  
The following 4 users liked this post by safetypee:
Old 11th Feb 2024, 15:28
  #52 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jun 2001
Location: Formerly resident of Knoteatingham
Posts: 957
Received 116 Likes on 57 Posts
Originally Posted by safetypee
"Donald Trump says he would encourage Russia to attack Nato allies who pay too little"

Suggests that Trump cannot count as far as 5; article 5 of the NATO charter.
Conversely if you break a commitment then who will trust whom.
'Trust and verify - carry a big stick', but waving a big stick at your allies does not ensure that trust will follow, nor that the resultant situation will reduce US costs long term.
Like much of what Trump says and does, I have a certain amount of sympathy for what I believe he tries to achieve but he is about as subtle as a train crash in his execution.
BANANASBANANAS is online now  
Old 11th Feb 2024, 15:36
  #53 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: May 2003
Location: London/Oxford/New York
Posts: 2,924
Received 139 Likes on 64 Posts
Originally Posted by BANANASBANANAS
Like much of what Trump says and does, I have a certain amount of sympathy for what I believe he tries to achieve but he is about as subtle as a train crash in his execution.
What?!

You have sympathy for the view that you should encourage Russia to attack NATO states that don't meet the 2% commitment?

Insane...
pr00ne is offline  
Old 11th Feb 2024, 15:44
  #54 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jan 2001
Location: Clarty Waters, UK
Age: 58
Posts: 950
Received 60 Likes on 31 Posts
Originally Posted by pr00ne
What?!

You have sympathy for the view that you should encourage Russia to attack NATO states that don't meet the 2% commitment?

Insane...
I think BANANASBANANAS was categorising Trump's 'encouragement' of Russia as poor execution rather than sympathy......
Andy_S is offline  
Old 11th Feb 2024, 15:45
  #55 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: May 2003
Location: London/Oxford/New York
Posts: 2,924
Received 139 Likes on 64 Posts
Originally Posted by Andy_S
I think BANANASBANANAS was categorising Trump's 'encouragement' of Russia as poor execution rather than sympathy......
Still insane...
pr00ne is offline  
Old 11th Feb 2024, 15:49
  #56 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Mostly in my own imagination
Posts: 476
Received 304 Likes on 140 Posts
Originally Posted by BANANASBANANAS
I have a certain amount of sympathy for what I believe he tries to achieve
You sound as if you think he's actually motivated by something other than "what's in it for me?"
Sue Vêtements is offline  
The following users liked this post:
Old 11th Feb 2024, 15:51
  #57 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Dec 2020
Location: England
Posts: 528
Received 241 Likes on 123 Posts
Originally Posted by BANANASBANANAS
Like much of what Trump says and does, I have a certain amount of sympathy for what I believe he tries to achieve but he is about as subtle as a train crash in his execution.
Most of what Trump spouts is made up childish unverifiable rhetoric. He is extremely dangerous and should be kept out of power.
DogTailRed2 is offline  
The following 5 users liked this post by DogTailRed2:
Old 11th Feb 2024, 16:59
  #58 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Apr 2000
Location: here
Posts: 60
Received 18 Likes on 4 Posts
"Most of what Trump spouts is made up childish unverifiable rhetoric. He is extremely dangerous and should be kept out of power."

Most of what Trump............ IMHO I would say ALL of what he sprouts is..............

In the same vain, IMHO, I would say Biden is in the same boat. But that's American politics and, i think, the mindset of the American voter led by the "catchy one liners" and glitzy rallies.
Rescue3 is offline  
Old 11th Feb 2024, 18:00
  #59 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: Canada
Age: 63
Posts: 5,204
Received 133 Likes on 60 Posts
Rather ironic that Trump is castigating organizations for not paying their bills, when he is notorious for stifling everyone that does business with him, including his own lawyers.
Big Pistons Forever is offline  
The following 3 users liked this post by Big Pistons Forever:
Old 11th Feb 2024, 18:11
  #60 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: UK
Posts: 2,451
Likes: 0
Received 9 Likes on 5 Posts
Regression of Thought

"But that's American politics and, i think, the mindset of the American voter led by the "catchy one liners" and glitzy rallies."

Regression of Thought:
'
Democracy is in crisis on every continent:…' ' … an increasingly technocratic world, the progress of knowledge is unable to conceive the complexity of reality, especially human realities. This leads to a return of dogmatisms and fanaticisms, as well as a crisis of morality with the unleashing of hatreds and idolatries.'
https://footnotes2plato.com/2024/02/03/the-progress-of-knowledge-has-led-to-a-regression-of-thought-by-edgar-morin

Also Truth:
'We are rapidly becoming prototypes of a people that totalitarian monsters could only drool about in their dreams. All the dictators up to now have had to work hard at suppressing the truth.
We, by our actions, are saying that this is no longer necessary, that we have acquired a spiritual mechanism that can denude truth of any significance.
In a very fundamental way we, as a free people, have freely decided that we want to live in some post-truth world.”
https://blogs.nottingham.ac.uk/makin...and-post-fake/

"It is a tale told by an idiot, full of sound and fury, signifying nothing." Macbeth
safetypee is offline  


Contact Us - Archive - Advertising - Cookie Policy - Privacy Statement - Terms of Service

Copyright © 2024 MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands. All rights reserved. Use of this site indicates your consent to the Terms of Use.