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Gaza Air War

Old 9th Oct 2023, 23:24
  #21 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by ORAC
Historically the Israeli’s have given a warning when a building is about to be attacked - both via radio and via a “tap”, a small charge dropped on the roof to allow evacuation before the main strike a few minutes later.

That did, of course, allow the probable targets to escape - they news today is they have announced that no further advance warning will be given - and Hamas has said a hostage will be killed for every attack made without a warning.

Example of a “tap”

https://youtu.be/fOSFBTbSBdU
This the beginning of the sequence I referred to in my post above.......which was followed by the building being dropped a few minutes later, and explains why the cameras were there, which Lonewolf was questioning.
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Old 10th Oct 2023, 01:48
  #22 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by B Fraser
IIRC, they are using powered paragliders. Fly a helicopter over the top and the wing will collapse.
If the pilot has a rifle, the helicopter might be at risk on the approach.
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Old 10th Oct 2023, 04:37
  #23 (permalink)  
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Simple, sneak up from behind. The pilot has a 180 degree arc where he cannot point the rifle.
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Old 10th Oct 2023, 05:43
  #24 (permalink)  
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BFM with para motors

I hear what you’re saying about a 180 degree arc but remember he can manoeuvre! Aside from that it’s worth remembering that any small arms fired from a very unstable platform at a moving target at the kind of engagement range of an Apache would have to be incredibly lucky to get a round within 100’ let alone score a DH! Even if it did hit it is still a relatively small calibre round against a reasonably well protected machine. The bottom line is I’d feel pretty safe taking on a para motor armed with an AK in an Apache.

BV
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Old 10th Oct 2023, 08:38
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Originally Posted by NutLoose
A burst from an Israeli Cobra would see the trikes off.
Would be a neat trick, as the Israelis haven't flown Cobras for about a decade.

All this talk of helicopters taking down paragliders is predicated on one very important element that was missing on Saturday, that the Israelis know they are coming in time to have the necessary helicopters in the vicinity.
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Old 10th Oct 2023, 09:10
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Originally Posted by atakacs
There have been some video (obviously can't find them now) of what was supposedly 'home brewed' SAM. Anyone with more specifics?!
You mean the HAmas Hostile Aircraft Holy Artichoki Homebuilt Artillery or HAHAHA?

https://x.com/Alfaiomi/status/1711300065262764316?s=20

Love the liberated white hotel phone used to call Mission Control.

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Old 10th Oct 2023, 09:14
  #27 (permalink)  
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Originally Posted by Bob Viking
I hear what you’re saying about a 180 degree arc but remember he can manoeuvre!
I remember, it comes in handy for getting back to where I parked.

A motor glider turns very slowly and the pilot would first need to hear you over the racket of the engine. The manoeuvre requires one hand to enter the turn and the opposite hand to exit. Using a two handed weapon would be a bit of a challenge.
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Old 10th Oct 2023, 09:20
  #28 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by B Fraser
I remember, it comes in handy for getting back to where I parked.

A motor glider turns very slowly and the pilot would first need to hear you over the racket of the engine. The manoeuvre requires one hand to enter the turn and the opposite hand to exit. Using a two handed weapon would be a bit of a challenge.
That is why, like many military aircraft, including the Apache, it has a crew of two!
But as had been said, in the case of a low level surprise assault in the dark, the helo will no good to you.
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Old 10th Oct 2023, 10:31
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Originally Posted by B2N2
You mean the HAmas Hostile Aircraft Holy Artichoki Homebuilt Artillery or HAHAHA?

https://x.com/Alfaiomi/status/1711300065262764316?s=20

Love the liberated white hotel phone used to call Mission Control.
Unguided? Good luck with that. Maybe they're intended to deplete IAF countermeasure stocks...
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Old 10th Oct 2023, 10:51
  #30 (permalink)  

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How could they build thousands of these without Israeli intelligence knowing?
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Old 10th Oct 2023, 13:16
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Originally Posted by GeeRam
Because what you're seeing is an edited version.
It actually happened on live TV on the Al Jazeera TV news show (I happened to be watching it at the time) and they had a female news reporter on the roof, dressed in helmet/flak jacket etc., with that building as backdrop, just behind her, and she was doing a feed to camera, when the first strike hit the roof, and she dropped down, screamed etc., and studio anchor was asking are you OK etc.,etc., get to safety etc., or can you continue, so the camera was still running when the following strikes hit which dropped most of the building (which is just the bit you see in the video clips being shown around)
Thank you for the clarification. ORAC: Thank you also.

As to the air war, and specifically drones:
What about Israeli drones/surveillance assets? They have been using drones very well for decades.
Did Hamas spend a few months observing mapping out Israeli drone surveillance patterns? Did they find a gap to exploit? That might (in part) help to explain how they got across the border and achieve a surprise attack.

For Herod: they could build them in the basement or in other underground locations. .
Palestinian fascination with constructing tunnels is well documented.
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Old 10th Oct 2023, 13:27
  #32 (permalink)  
 
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Is that a Hamas Gunbus?
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Old 10th Oct 2023, 15:00
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A grappling hook on the end of a long winch cable should be able to collect a fair few.
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Old 10th Oct 2023, 15:06
  #34 (permalink)  
 
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From Avweb
It’s not clear how the Israeli Air Force’s readiness in the face of Saturday’s attack by Hamas was affected by a months-long boycott of flying by some of its most experienced pilots. It’s also not clear if any of the more than 400 reserve pilots, including 300 fighter pilots, are still refusing to fly in a protest over judicial reforms. The changes allow the government to overrule the judiciary and the pilots, who are among 1,100 reservists to withdraw their services, have said they would refuse to attack other countries at the behest of an “undemocratic” and “authoritarian” Israel.A few days before the Hamas attack, Israeli Air Force Commander Maj. Gen Tomer Bar gave the protesting pilots until Oct. 17 to get back in uniform or risk losing flying status and being kicked out of the military. At the time, Bar was concerned about getting the volunteer pilots requalified in time for a major military exercise planned for the end of the month. Most of the protesters had not flown for more than three months when the attacks started. When they announced their intention to not show up for training, Bar said it would hurt the IAF’s readiness, and he later described the air force’s readiness as “worsening.”
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Old 10th Oct 2023, 17:01
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Nice find, Megan, and I wonder if that figured in the Hamas plans to go ahead ... or not.
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Old 10th Oct 2023, 17:13
  #36 (permalink)  
 
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NOT the sort of news I would have wished to read.
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Old 10th Oct 2023, 17:14
  #37 (permalink)  
 
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Jordan has announced the opening of its military bases to US Air Force aircraft to provide military support to Israel.
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Old 10th Oct 2023, 23:34
  #38 (permalink)  
 
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Considering Megan's post.....does anyone think for one second any IAF Pilot, Crewmember, techie is sitting this one out on some sort of work action?

Gents.....the Black Flag has been two blocked!








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Old 11th Oct 2023, 01:13
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Originally Posted by B Fraser
IIRC, they are using powered paragliders. Fly a helicopter over the top and the wing will collapse.
Certainly - IF one knows the attack is coming, and is prepared.

This was a coordinated multi-prong (air, sea, land) surprise assault in force - at dawn - in parallel with heavy rocket fire (which tends to make for unhealthy airspace). The paragliders were likely in the air for 5 minutes or so, and were no doubt intended to be a one-way ride - get in fast, commit mayhem, get out on foot (or die trying).

Not so much an Air Force as Air Cav(alry) in miniature.

Of note, Israel's first air response to the assault took 3 hours (fixed-wing bombing attacks into Gaza).

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Old 11th Oct 2023, 07:31
  #40 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Lonewolf_50
I followed the video to the end.
Reminds me of a few tall buildings taken down by strikes in Iraq a couple of decades ago.
How did the Press know to be there? (go to about 0:35 in). Why was the building the one being watched? That fellow already had two cameras set up.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?app=desktop&v=e5OhTspt0g8
​​​​​​Having experience in the field, it appears they may have waited until al jazzerra crossed to the live interview.
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