Buccaneer Flying Qualities
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if you want to download the images I posted, big versions are here, just scroll through the album.
Thread Starter
Thanks for all the comments.
Photo of me and the model for size reference.
A video shot at a recent fly-in at Houston in June. Not a long sequence for the Buccaneer, but it gives an idea.
For those interested in it's construction, follow the link below for a build thread.
RCUniverse - Buccaneer Build Thread
It was completely own-designed and scratch built from some 3-view plans, a 3D scan of a plastic model, lots of photos, the AP Maintenance manual, and a good dose of TLAR (That Looks About Right).
ORAC's links to BEagles comments were really helpful in understanding the full scale characteristics - I think if I had read those before I started, I would have chosen something more straightforward. I can confirm this particular comment in the landing pattern "At this stage the ac is very unstable in all planes and must be flown very carefully indeed." also applies to this model. It has a 3-axis rate gyro working at maximum gain settings to make it manageable.
The addition of all the maintenance stencil markings and a detailed cockpit and crew is next up.
XW547 was chosen as it was one of the few Buccaneers to retain the extended wingtips throughout it's life. It was on XII Sqn books on and off between 1974 and 1985 and again from May 1986 until disposal in 1993. It was "Guinness Girl/ Pauline/ The MacAllan" during the Gulf War.
Thanks, and let's keep the Buccaneer stories coming.
Photo of me and the model for size reference.
A video shot at a recent fly-in at Houston in June. Not a long sequence for the Buccaneer, but it gives an idea.
For those interested in it's construction, follow the link below for a build thread.
RCUniverse - Buccaneer Build Thread
It was completely own-designed and scratch built from some 3-view plans, a 3D scan of a plastic model, lots of photos, the AP Maintenance manual, and a good dose of TLAR (That Looks About Right).
ORAC's links to BEagles comments were really helpful in understanding the full scale characteristics - I think if I had read those before I started, I would have chosen something more straightforward. I can confirm this particular comment in the landing pattern "At this stage the ac is very unstable in all planes and must be flown very carefully indeed." also applies to this model. It has a 3-axis rate gyro working at maximum gain settings to make it manageable.
The addition of all the maintenance stencil markings and a detailed cockpit and crew is next up.
XW547 was chosen as it was one of the few Buccaneers to retain the extended wingtips throughout it's life. It was on XII Sqn books on and off between 1974 and 1985 and again from May 1986 until disposal in 1993. It was "Guinness Girl/ Pauline/ The MacAllan" during the Gulf War.
Thanks, and let's keep the Buccaneer stories coming.
The following 11 users liked this post by JSF-TC:
Great landing and it doesn’t have that jerky handling that a lot of RC models have!
I do think you could improve with either a smoked canopy or a properly kitted out crew.
Great build thread.
Hats off, great skills.
I do think you could improve with either a smoked canopy or a properly kitted out crew.
Great build thread.
Hats off, great skills.
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XW547 was chosen as it was one of the few Buccaneers to retain the extended wingtips throughout it's life. It was on XII Sqn books on and off between 1974 and 1985 and again from May 1986 until disposal in 1993. It was "Guinness Girl/ Pauline/ The MacAllan" during the Gulf War.
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In no way to detract from Paul’s truly superb Bucc. heres another extraordinary achievement !
1/6 scale, 4 30 kilo thrust engines, 300 pounds t.o.w. and flies superbly, even been looped !
1/6 scale, 4 30 kilo thrust engines, 300 pounds t.o.w. and flies superbly, even been looped !
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The addition of all the maintenance stencil markings and a detailed cockpit and crew is next up.
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So when building it do you go for a full blown scale representation first and hope for a successful flight or build it with the intention of it flying and adapt the shape to that, if that makes sense.
Thread Starter
I aimed to get a scale representation first, followed by HOPE.........
The wing section is not scale as I couldn't find any info on it, so I used other well established sections of about the appropriate t/c ratio.
If I had to add a significantly bigger tailplane, or extend the wing span to make it work, then to me at least it wouldn't be a Buccaneer.
Keeping the relatively small engine exhaust diameters drove limitations on the exhaust pipe and engine selection.
Making larger, non-scale landing gear doors to avoid having to get the main gear to shrink on retraction would have been sooooo much easier than keeping the scale doors and the gear. But that's cheating.......
The wing section is not scale as I couldn't find any info on it, so I used other well established sections of about the appropriate t/c ratio.
If I had to add a significantly bigger tailplane, or extend the wing span to make it work, then to me at least it wouldn't be a Buccaneer.
Keeping the relatively small engine exhaust diameters drove limitations on the exhaust pipe and engine selection.
Making larger, non-scale landing gear doors to avoid having to get the main gear to shrink on retraction would have been sooooo much easier than keeping the scale doors and the gear. But that's cheating.......
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When you add the cockpit, remember, if you are unaware, the seats are staggered slightly to each side, to allow the rear seater a clear fwd view.
I worked on Buccaneer Flight Systems at what was then HSA Brough from 1970 until the aircraft went out of service in the early 90's. You are to be congratulated on building an outstanding flying model of an aircraft which had some pretty challenging flying characteristics in its full sized form.
The powerful trim changes arising from flap and aileron droop, particularly with BLC on, were well known from early flight testing. One of the early development batch aircraft was fitted with extended chord ailerons and was lost near Holme on Spalding Moor when the nose down pitch produced by a full droop selection could not be overcome. The extended chord ailerons were abandoned after that.
A decision was made, I am not sure by whom, to instruct the pilot to select flap and droop in small stages rather than complicate the system by having an automatic interlock if one surface failed to move when selected. I think the navigator was supposed to look over the pilots shoulder and monitor the indicators in what was a pretty high workload stage of flight, particularly if it was a carrier approach. After many years and several accidents in service, the company was tasked with introducing a comparator which would stop all the surfaces moving before the pitch change was uncontrollable if one failed to operate. This was quite challenging as the position sensors were Desynns which were not easy to interact with. The mod had to be 'minimal change' as the aircraft was by now quite long in the tooth. We were still working on the system and the final report and testing of a working mod was produced several months after the Buccaneer went out of service.
The powerful trim changes arising from flap and aileron droop, particularly with BLC on, were well known from early flight testing. One of the early development batch aircraft was fitted with extended chord ailerons and was lost near Holme on Spalding Moor when the nose down pitch produced by a full droop selection could not be overcome. The extended chord ailerons were abandoned after that.
A decision was made, I am not sure by whom, to instruct the pilot to select flap and droop in small stages rather than complicate the system by having an automatic interlock if one surface failed to move when selected. I think the navigator was supposed to look over the pilots shoulder and monitor the indicators in what was a pretty high workload stage of flight, particularly if it was a carrier approach. After many years and several accidents in service, the company was tasked with introducing a comparator which would stop all the surfaces moving before the pitch change was uncontrollable if one failed to operate. This was quite challenging as the position sensors were Desynns which were not easy to interact with. The mod had to be 'minimal change' as the aircraft was by now quite long in the tooth. We were still working on the system and the final report and testing of a working mod was produced several months after the Buccaneer went out of service.
A decision was made, I am not sure by whom, to instruct the pilot to select flap and droop in small stages rather than complicate the system by having an automatic interlock if one surface failed to move when selected. I think the navigator was supposed to look over the pilots shoulder and monitor the indicators
Thread Starter
I see from my logbook that I've actually flown XW547!
19th November 1976 Buccaneer S2B Self + Flt R** L***s Lo Nav 5 1:40 0:10 Act IF
Second trip of the day; earlier one was with the same navigator, 1:05 Formation 3 in Buccaneer S2 XN977.
19th November 1976 Buccaneer S2B Self + Flt R** L***s Lo Nav 5 1:40 0:10 Act IF
Second trip of the day; earlier one was with the same navigator, 1:05 Formation 3 in Buccaneer S2 XN977.
The wing section didn't show up with the usual suspects, like Dave Lednicer's list, it looks reminiscent of a 23010 or something similar. The VG's would have been handy at low speed, and necessary at high speed as well to keep reasonable aileron performance. The guys out of BAe would still have some corporate memory on that I would wager.
BAe has some nice pikkies, head on it shows a serious amount of elevator ANU to drive straight.... would have been a fun ride. Beagle, how was the trim sorted out on the machine?
BAe has some nice pikkies, head on it shows a serious amount of elevator ANU to drive straight.... would have been a fun ride. Beagle, how was the trim sorted out on the machine?
Ecce Homo! Loquitur...
JSF-TC,
The names and contact details posts in this old thread (which I posted earlier on this thread) might help.
Blackburn Buccaneer - Aerodynamic parameters/Flight Test results
In particular:
“The man you need to contact is John Cowper in the Brough Heritage Group. He was the aerodynamicist responsible for stability and control for many years. The group normally come in to Brough on a Thursday late morning/early afternoon and I still occasionally go and ask him questions (on Hawk) when I am really stuck for information.”
The names and contact details posts in this old thread (which I posted earlier on this thread) might help.
Blackburn Buccaneer - Aerodynamic parameters/Flight Test results
In particular:
“The man you need to contact is John Cowper in the Brough Heritage Group. He was the aerodynamicist responsible for stability and control for many years. The group normally come in to Brough on a Thursday late morning/early afternoon and I still occasionally go and ask him questions (on Hawk) when I am really stuck for information.”
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All the lumps and bumps must have taken some modelling.
The aforementioned XN977 18 July 1970 courtesy of Wikimedia - sadly assessed as a write off following an engine explosion over the Nordhorn ranges in 1982 (on books of 15 Sqn at the time)
Last edited by SLXOwft; 13th Sep 2023 at 10:26.
I’m curious how the area ruling works at the reduced scale.