TOP GUN : Inside the RAF (where did it go?)
Awful kit. It wasn't untill we got Goretex wet weather gear that things were fit for purpose. Still got my Sqn Goretex as we disbanded and nobody wanted it.
Last edited by Diff Tail Shim; 1st Sep 2023 at 15:11.
Even then the RAF had to trial Goretex clothing before it could be introduced into service. Never mind that Goretex had been up Everest and such! Rumour was Kennel Maids trialled it first.
Tell that to the SWO on episode Two.. He muttered something about smartness and haircuts making Engineers better at their jobs and more dilligent in their approach to It...
My instant thought was bull****, keeping warm / cool and dry were more important than how your kit looked and what you wore, scarves, wooley hats and aquired bits and bobs were the norm, has he ever been out on a line?
Spend 12 hours crawling around an engine at night fixing it on an open apron in the middle of winter and a nice crease in your trousers and shiny shoes are the last thing you have on your mind, try shining a pair of shoes that have had engine oils, skydrol and a myriad of other fluids spilt on them. VC10 cabin compressor oil levels come to mind..
You often had parts of the RAF that were working against you, the storeman who wouldn't change my DMS boots that the soles were almost smooth on and slippy, they are dangerous when working on aircraft... You have safety boots for that comes the reply... so you expect me to change my boots out in the field everytime I need to work on a Puma top deck? It took my bosses interjection to get those changed.
Refusing to issue cold weather clothing, so we end up in Canada changing an engine out on an apron in mid winter wearing standard nylon cold weather kit.
My instant thought was bull****, keeping warm / cool and dry were more important than how your kit looked and what you wore, scarves, wooley hats and aquired bits and bobs were the norm, has he ever been out on a line?
Spend 12 hours crawling around an engine at night fixing it on an open apron in the middle of winter and a nice crease in your trousers and shiny shoes are the last thing you have on your mind, try shining a pair of shoes that have had engine oils, skydrol and a myriad of other fluids spilt on them. VC10 cabin compressor oil levels come to mind..
You often had parts of the RAF that were working against you, the storeman who wouldn't change my DMS boots that the soles were almost smooth on and slippy, they are dangerous when working on aircraft... You have safety boots for that comes the reply... so you expect me to change my boots out in the field everytime I need to work on a Puma top deck? It took my bosses interjection to get those changed.
Refusing to issue cold weather clothing, so we end up in Canada changing an engine out on an apron in mid winter wearing standard nylon cold weather kit.
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Aahh, presumably the green nylon stuff we were issued as Linies in the 70s. It was made from a fabric specially developed at Porton Down, tailored by the usual suspects and marketed as anti-goretex. Completely impermeable to sweat, yet still allowed the cold and rain to penetrate unhindered.
And when you try and tell the kids of today .......
And when you try and tell the kids of today .......
Not so fondly remembered for the reasons you state, also ripped easily, thankfully bodge tape was not in short supply, and stained with as many substances as it came into contact with.
But, to be fair, when nice and shiny, was ideal for those making the arduous trek from their cars to the office in inclement wx, or, forced to walk around the station in the same.
They were probably the demographic selected for the trials hence the acceptance.
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Probably no one cares these days.
But what a lot of scruffy Ground crew. I know things have changed since I left and beards are allowed. But if you have to have a beard, at least groom it. I think it shows complete lack of discipline, which is evident in the programme too.
BTW: We need more TYPHOONS and why is the F35 order on go slow?
But what a lot of scruffy Ground crew. I know things have changed since I left and beards are allowed. But if you have to have a beard, at least groom it. I think it shows complete lack of discipline, which is evident in the programme too.
BTW: We need more TYPHOONS and why is the F35 order on go slow?
He would have had a hissy fit with this lot. Well I bet the SWO at Binbrook did 40 years ago as well!. The standard of dress I remember seeing there on an ATC camp the year before. The LTF boys at RIAT 1983, from a FB post on the Lightning group. Of course the display pilot was tragically soon to be killed at Scarborough. Some good under the hat hairstyles.
It often rained somewhat (and still does) in Borneo. Monsoon cape never arrived!
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Ah yes, another M.o.D Procurement "success".
Not so fondly remembered for the reasons you state, also ripped easily, thankfully bodge tape was not in short supply, and stained with as many substances as it came into contact with.
But, to be fair, when nice and shiny, was ideal for those making the arduous trek from their cars to the office in inclement wx, or, forced to walk around the station in the same.
They were probably the demographic selected for the trials hence the acceptance.
Not so fondly remembered for the reasons you state, also ripped easily, thankfully bodge tape was not in short supply, and stained with as many substances as it came into contact with.
But, to be fair, when nice and shiny, was ideal for those making the arduous trek from their cars to the office in inclement wx, or, forced to walk around the station in the same.
They were probably the demographic selected for the trials hence the acceptance.
..
Last edited by NutLoose; 4th Sep 2023 at 09:52.
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Rather like the woolly pully with the stupid V neck on what was supposed to be an outdoors item to keep you warm in wartime etc but obviously had a shiny input so they could wear their ties, and do not get me started on sowing wings on them.
Sewing the cloth moth onto the woolly pully was originally a joke idea, I once heard. But then some idiot decided that it was A Good Idea.....
Is the woolly pully still a uniform item?
Shiney pen holder pocket on them that when issued, you couldn't use to hold a pen under pain of 252..
The original mention was that the guns were water cooled (not air cooled). The aircraft hydraulic system in those days would have been vegetable-based oil, I forget the RAF stores DTD number. These days it's 585/Fluid 41 or Skydrol.
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Those woolly-pullies had a built-in spare tyre around the waist when worn. As for those two-tone overalls (mid-70s onward), I defy them to fit anyone properly. If the legs were long enough, the chest was too big. Did the procurement teams ever test the clothing under working circumstances? Likewise with the previously-mentioned green wet weather kit. The hooded blue naval use gear with the face shields and peaks was far superior.
On the Top Gun subject, I noticed that the engineers always referred to their charges as a 'jet', as opposed to an 'aircraft'. New terminology, I guess. They used to be quaintly called 'kites' when I was in.
On the Top Gun subject, I noticed that the engineers always referred to their charges as a 'jet', as opposed to an 'aircraft'. New terminology, I guess. They used to be quaintly called 'kites' when I was in.
LB: Yes, I'm aware of that, despite only being 68. The original mention was that the guns were water cooled (not air cooled). The aircraft hydraulic system in those days would have been vegetable-based oil, I forget the RAF stores DTD number. These days it's 585/Fluid 41 or Skydrol.
The original mention was that the guns were water cooled (not air cooled). The aircraft hydraulic system in those days would have been vegetable-based oil, I forget the RAF stores DTD number. These days it's 585/Fluid 41 or Skydrol.The original woolly pully with a round neck was reasonably OK, but the V-neck was awful, I agree.
Sewing the cloth moth onto the woolly pully was originally a joke idea, I once heard. But then some idiot decided that it was A Good Idea.....
Is the woolly pully still a uniform item?
Sewing the cloth moth onto the woolly pully was originally a joke idea, I once heard. But then some idiot decided that it was A Good Idea.....
Is the woolly pully still a uniform item?
The advantage of round neck was that if [as I did] one spilt coffee on the shirt, the pully covered the blemish even if back to front.
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OM ( oil mineral )15 was hyd fluid.
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Last edited by NutLoose; 4th Sep 2023 at 09:55.
A few days ago I was at the supermarket checkout and the lady on the till had just received a text message from her son, and was fizzing with pride that he had just passed his Army driving test. A small thing, you might think, but I mentioned that I had had been in the RAF, said that I believed life in the military is what you make it and that I wished her son every success. I suspect that most of those airing their minor gripes here still look back on their time in uniform with pleasure and pride, remembering the unique experiences, achievements and friendships they had along he way. Of course you have to take the rough with the smooth, but that is true in every walk of life - as the saying goes, if you can't take a joke you shouldn't have joined. If they're anything like me they're not much interested in the opinion of failed air cadets and the other civilian clingons that hang around here.
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Just remembered - the vegetable-based hydraulic fluid was Lockheed 22, which was used with natural rubber seals. Obsolete so you can forget it. I've got a story about someone putting mineral oil in a museum aircraft's NLG oleo, which promptly ate the (irreplaceable) seals. No names, locations & pack drill!
Back to the thread.
Back to the thread.
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Watched a Liney topping up the oils on an Adour with the oil used in the Microturbo, one synthetic, one mineral, I asked him how long he had been getting it wrong, always was the reply and he was 1/2 way through a RAFG tour having arrived from Colt.