MRH-90 crash Australia
Thanks champ!
1. On the surface it was a light hearted reference to Anchorman. Very funny movie, you should check it out sometime.
2. On another level, exposure is an element in overall risk. If you’re not flying then you’re perfectly safe on the ground and not being exposed to risk. Additionally, if flying rates are limited the crews have a lower overall level of proficiency. When this is the case high end tasks are usually restricted by formal or informal means.
3. Ongoing safety and airworthiness issues were reported in the media as cause for the grounding. From a crew proficiency and capability perspective it would make sense to try to maintain currency for the current generation of aircrew as a base for transition to 60M. In order to reduce risk when generating the new capability.
4. Finally ‘Sex Panther’ worked 60% of the time and was quoted to have ‘a formidable scent that stings the nostrils like a used diaper filled with Indian food’. Much like the smell emanating from what has been released to explain the circumstances surrounding this crash.
5. I’m off to watch Anchorman again.
1. On the surface it was a light hearted reference to Anchorman. Very funny movie, you should check it out sometime.
2. On another level, exposure is an element in overall risk. If you’re not flying then you’re perfectly safe on the ground and not being exposed to risk. Additionally, if flying rates are limited the crews have a lower overall level of proficiency. When this is the case high end tasks are usually restricted by formal or informal means.
3. Ongoing safety and airworthiness issues were reported in the media as cause for the grounding. From a crew proficiency and capability perspective it would make sense to try to maintain currency for the current generation of aircrew as a base for transition to 60M. In order to reduce risk when generating the new capability.
4. Finally ‘Sex Panther’ worked 60% of the time and was quoted to have ‘a formidable scent that stings the nostrils like a used diaper filled with Indian food’. Much like the smell emanating from what has been released to explain the circumstances surrounding this crash.
5. I’m off to watch Anchorman again.
Thanks Henra!
You are correct about the maint/spares issues.
I can’t reconcile:
If it was plain CFIT there would be a respectful pause before returning to flight. We’re not seeing this.
If it was a mech issue there would be maint action on the fleet. Not seeing this either.
Even people I know who are still connected aren’t even dropping hints. This is an unprecedented level of secrecy.
If the organisation can’t blame the pilots or maint, what’s the big secret?
You are correct about the maint/spares issues.
I can’t reconcile:
If it was plain CFIT there would be a respectful pause before returning to flight. We’re not seeing this.
If it was a mech issue there would be maint action on the fleet. Not seeing this either.
Even people I know who are still connected aren’t even dropping hints. This is an unprecedented level of secrecy.
If the organisation can’t blame the pilots or maint, what’s the big secret?
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I'm not going to 'guess' about the above secret. In any event some facts: https://www.nhindustries.com/website...ogram_180.html 29 Sep 2023
“...With reference to the accident involving an Australian MRH90 on 28th July, NHIndustries has already informed operators that it has not identified any information from the initial flight data analysis that relates to a failure, malfunction or defect linked to the aircraft design. NHI has not recommended any additional measures to be applied to the operating fleet. NHI will also offer a proposal to the Commonwealth of Australia to support the phasing out of the MRH90 fleet. This will produce a stock of parts for use by the other operators, who continue to successfully fly the aircraft worldwide....”
_______________________________
04 Oct 2023 “...The Taipan fleet was already due to be retired no later than December of next year, and the defense department announcement notes that its decision “does not presuppose or any way suggest the outcome” of the investigation into that crash....” https://breakingdefense.com/2023/10/...90-blackhawks/
“...With reference to the accident involving an Australian MRH90 on 28th July, NHIndustries has already informed operators that it has not identified any information from the initial flight data analysis that relates to a failure, malfunction or defect linked to the aircraft design. NHI has not recommended any additional measures to be applied to the operating fleet. NHI will also offer a proposal to the Commonwealth of Australia to support the phasing out of the MRH90 fleet. This will produce a stock of parts for use by the other operators, who continue to successfully fly the aircraft worldwide....”
_______________________________
04 Oct 2023 “...The Taipan fleet was already due to be retired no later than December of next year, and the defense department announcement notes that its decision “does not presuppose or any way suggest the outcome” of the investigation into that crash....” https://breakingdefense.com/2023/10/...90-blackhawks/
We were in the gallery yesterday when the house of representatives rose to pay their respects to our lost aviators.
Powerful speeches by our politicians.
Lest we forget
Mr and Mrs MJB
Powerful speeches by our politicians.
Lest we forget
Mr and Mrs MJB
The Privy Council ruled that Mahon had acted 'in breach of natural justice', so the official line remains in conflict with many of his key points. He died in 1986, and his legal fight against the Court of Appeal and Council with him. There's a number of interesting books on the subject, some taking advantage of Mahon's death by making claims he of course cannot reply to. But the most interesting papers are independent assessments of the CVR transcripts, which show beyond any doubt they were doctored.
212, the root cause was a change in waypoints that were not communicated to the flight crew, that on top of the entire operation failing to operate in accordance with proscribed procedures, just like offshore oil in some places.
I know - I was just asking what part of the CVR was supposed to be falsified?
Thread Starter
Haven't heard any specfics except that Jervis bay ditching and this one are not related. Whitsunday the engines were operating normally at time of accident. Suspect it going to cover of the Jervis bay than whitsunday accident
https://www.abc.net.au/news/2023-10-...pper/103017500
https://www.abc.net.au/news/2023-10-...pper/103017500
The ABC News article mentions the prospect of questions being asked in Senate yesterday. If that was the case, the transcript would eventually appear at: https://www.aph.gov.au/Parliamentary...dget_estimates
Based on the program of discussion, questions would likely have come up under "Program 2.6: Army Capabilities" some time yesterday morning.
Based on the program of discussion, questions would likely have come up under "Program 2.6: Army Capabilities" some time yesterday morning.
Senator Shoebridge asked some interesting questions during Senate Estimates. Starting to look like they’ve been having problems with Topowl:
Substantial risk of CFIT
Unacceptable risk to flight safety
Not airworthy
Breached FAR regulations
Very high risk of catastrophic outcomes
Degraded peripheral vision
Substantial risk of CFIT
Unacceptable risk to flight safety
Not airworthy
Breached FAR regulations
Very high risk of catastrophic outcomes
Degraded peripheral vision
Last edited by Toppingline; 26th Oct 2023 at 09:01.
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Thanks. Looks like it starts Top of Page 47 numbered (or 49 physical) PDF: 25 Oct 2023 (PDF 1.1Mb) https://www.aph.gov.au/-/media/Estim...47A0940E00EB7F
Don’t know if anyone will be able to give a definitive answer.
Senator Shoebridge did raise some serious concerns which Jobson didn’t seem to answer terribly well at all.
If Topowl was not compliant then someone cleared it for use. Considering 4 people are now dead, that someone has some serious explaining to do.
It could also explain the degree of secrecy surrounding this accident.
Senator Shoebridge did raise some serious concerns which Jobson didn’t seem to answer terribly well at all.
If Topowl was not compliant then someone cleared it for use. Considering 4 people are now dead, that someone has some serious explaining to do.
It could also explain the degree of secrecy surrounding this accident.
The degree of secrecy is quite worrying. Sadly, the families of the deceased have to suffer even more with the Circus that Oz Army Air Corps is presenting.
TopOwl is an interesting question. What most TopOwl pilots say, is that it is an incredible safety/SA enhancer. They are able to see through the visor to determine colour, they do not have to tilt their heads upwards to view other info on the cockpit display, a very big improvement on NVG HUD. All of the most critical information is in their field of view no matter where they look. If the NVG tubes fail, or vis reduces, they have a fantastic display for Instrument recovery initiation.
TopOwl is an interesting question. What most TopOwl pilots say, is that it is an incredible safety/SA enhancer. They are able to see through the visor to determine colour, they do not have to tilt their heads upwards to view other info on the cockpit display, a very big improvement on NVG HUD. All of the most critical information is in their field of view no matter where they look. If the NVG tubes fail, or vis reduces, they have a fantastic display for Instrument recovery initiation.
That is they didn’t test in the accident conditions because the risk was too high.
I think the families need to get a lawyer and a technical advisor
Last edited by Toppingline; 27th Oct 2023 at 12:32.
Doctored to suggest what? It's a while since I've read them, but my recollection is that the the crew were essentially demonstrating that they were lost, and the polar explorer in the jump seat was helping them with a 'risky shift' based adaptation of what they could see versus what they expected to see. This feeling of comfort helped offset clues like losing VOR and RT with McMurdo base (blocked by the mountain!)
Regarding the CVR recording, a transcript was made by the NTSB in Washington, and agreed by the 'CVR Committee'. Air New Zealand's investigator and chief pilot then took it upon themselves to make 55 changes; mostly adding words and phrases, and on one occasion completely deleting an entire phrase. No investigation protocol permits such a thing. At the very least the Committee is reconvened and a formal decision made on any proposed 'error'.
ANZ said the pilots knew they were heading for Erebus. But their briefing notes indicated otherwise. They had been given the wrong route. This error was known by the chief pilot, but not the lead investigator. The folder containing the briefing was recovered intact, but by the time it was returned to NZ for analysis the relevant pages had been removed. ANZ also visited the homes of deceased aircrew and removed other copies of the notes.
ANZ always denied this, but the chief pilot, Capt Gemmell, confessed to it on his deathbed. The CE of ANZ had ordered the shredding of all relevant material.
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If the information is reliable, this doesn't sound good:
https://asiapacificdefencereporter.c...n-helicopters/
https://asiapacificdefencereporter.c...n-helicopters/
Thread Starter
If the information is reliable, this doesn't sound good:
https://asiapacificdefencereporter.c...n-helicopters/
https://asiapacificdefencereporter.c...n-helicopters/
Been told by a few people its completely unreliable
The aircraft are being stripped with the parts being sold back to other users. Yes the airframes are being destroyed but only after ever useble part is removed. Most of the parts are being returned to the manufacturer / airbus. Moving an airframe back to europe costs more than the airframe is worth