MRH-90 crash Australia

[rattman]

MRH-90 down in northern Queensland. 4 crew missing. Was participating in Talisman Sabre.

With the crash only a few months ago and blackhawks incoming expect a permanent grounding of these aircraft will be initiated

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2023-07-...days/102663620

[Not Long Here]

Originally Posted by SpazSinbad

The rumour maker - at the time the rumour was transmitted to me - did not know the names of the crew. This is a rumour network. Some rumoured definitions - more to be found if interested:
"a currently circulating story or report of uncertain or doubtful truth" [oxford]
OR
"an unofficial interesting story or piece of news that might be true or invented..." https://dictionary.cambridge.org/dic...english/rumour

So for the sake of passing on a "rumour" you have called into question the capabilities and experience of four aircrew who have unfortunately lost their lives in an accident whose cause hasn't been determined.

Shame on you.

[Not Long Here]

Originally Posted by SpazSinbad

The rumour maker - at the time the rumour was transmitted to me - did not know the names of the crew. This is a rumour network. Some rumoured definitions - more to be found if interested:
"a currently circulating story or report of uncertain or doubtful truth" [oxford]
OR
"an unofficial interesting story or piece of news that might be true or invented..." https://dictionary.cambridge.org/dic...english/rumour

So for the sake of passing on a "rumour" you have called into question the capabilities and experience of four aircrew who have unfortunately lost their lives in an accident whose cause hasn't been determined.

Shame on you.

[fdr]

Sad news as always.

The MRH-90 has had it's shares of issues, and has been considered a program of concern for some time, much of which relates to the OEM more than the helicopter itself. The engines have been involved in a number of incidents, according to public domain information. Night 2-ship overwater at anything near low level comes with it's own risks. The incidents that have been reported to date for the NH-90 really don't show a specific area of repetitive causation, most are related to operational risk issues that affect all helicopters equally.
The guys flying these things, like all helo pilots, operate in a demanding and unforgiving environment particularly at night.

[Godknows]

Sad to hear of another ditching with this type, especially at night. Whilst the waters are warm in that area the tides are very strong.
As ex army aviation I'm still hoping for the best for the crew.

[rattman]

Originally Posted by Godknows

Sad to hear of another ditching with this type, especially at night. Whilst the waters are warm in that area the tides are very strong.
As ex army aviation I'm still hoping for the best for the crew.

it was flying in formation with another when it when in. Other aircraft immediately started SAR, unless a miracle happens the crew went down with the aircraft

[Nescafe]

Not wishing to get pedantic with the media reporting, which can be woeful at best, but don’t the army fly the NH90 and the navy fly the MRH90? Or is that my mistake?

[HK144]

Originally Posted by Nescafe

Not wishing to get pedantic with the media reporting, which can be woeful at best, but don’t the army fly the NH90 and the navy fly the MRH90? Or is that my mistake?

In Australian service they are the MRH-90. Navy ceased flying the MRH90 a short while ago also.

[rattman]

Originally Posted by Nescafe

Not wishing to get pedantic with the media reporting, which can be woeful at best, but don’t the army fly the NH90 and the navy fly the MRH90? Or is that my mistake?

Because they are the exact same aircraft. You will regularly see navy pilots getting out aircraft with army written on the. The aircraft are pooled, it could based in townsville with the army. Go into maintainence and then come out a be given to the navy to fly

[Doors Off]

Originally Posted by rattman

MRH-90 down in northern Queensland. 4 crew missing. Was participating in Talisman Sabre.

With the crash only a few months ago and blackhawks incoming expect a permanent grounding of these aircraft will be initiated

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2023-07-...days/102663620

Sad event and I do hope that the crew are found.

Rattman, I truly wish I had your insight and knowledge to draw parallels between 2 separate accidents, before both have been fully examined. Permanent grounding would seem a big call to those who don’t have the same incredible crash investigation conduct and completion ability as yourself. I do hope that you share your report with both the ADF and the ATSB.

[rattman]

Originally Posted by Doors Off

Rattman, I truly wish I had your insight and knowledge to draw parallels between 2 separate accidents, before both have been fully examined. Permanent grounding would seem a big call to those who don’t have the same incredible crash investigation conduct and completion ability as yourself. I do hope that you share your report with both the ADF and the ATSB.

Dont have to be a patronising asshole. The first of the blackhawks will be delivered this year why bother trying to keep flying something that is already on its way out. Why continue to fly something that in 12 months will be gone. My personal opinion is that they will permanently grounded. 5th aviation will continue to operate Ch-47 and its 2 AW-189. I know 3 5th aviation pilots, of course I haven't talked to them because they are out on exercise, i think this is the nail in airframes coffin

[212man]

Originally Posted by rattman

Dont have to be a patronising asshole. The first of the blackhawks will be delivered this year why bother trying to keep flying something that is already on its way out. Why continue to fly something that in 12 months will be gone. My personal opinion is that they will permanently grounded. 5th aviation will continue to operate Ch-47 and its 2 AW-189. I know 3 5th aviation pilots, of course I haven't talked to them because they are out on exercise, i think this is the nail in airframes coffin

So far this year to date, there have been 4 Blackhawk accidents with 30 fatalities (2 were a mid-air). Last year there were 18 accidents with 16 fatalities. If we grounded aircraft types every time they have an accident, or two, there would be nothing flying!

[henra]

Originally Posted by rattman

Dont have to be a patronising asshole. The first of the blackhawks will be delivered this year why bother trying to keep flying something that is already on its way out. Why continue to fly something that in 12 months will be gone.

Why permanently ground a helicopter because of an accident that may very well have been simply due to operational risks (low flying at nicht over water has proven very accident prone -almost never tech related- over the past decades)? Pilots will be flying desks for a year and lose currency. Do you think that will benefit the safety on the new type? When then the first Blackhawk plows in do you want to ground them as well?

[Bengo]

A wise senior once said to me " Never ground an aircraft type until you understand what will have to be done to unground it".

There is no reported evidence of cause, so far, so no reported evidence of any need to stop flying .

N

[212man]

Originally Posted by Bengo

A wise senior once said to me " Never ground an aircraft type until you understand what will have to be done to unground it".

There is no reported evidence of cause, so far, so no reported evidence of any need to stop flying .

N

Quite!

[Copy that]

MRH 90 loss

Looking at the accident history of this helicopter as presented in this link ( https://aviation-safety.net/wikibase/type/NH90 ), it hardly calls for a fleet grounding.

It does in fact seem that several of the accidents may have been the result of some indelicate manipulation of the controls rather than the machine falling out of the sky.

[finestkind]

Normal military procedure, unless it has changed since my time, to ground that aircraft type if there is a serious incident or accident.

[rattman]

Originally Posted by finestkind

Normal military procedure, unless it has changed since my time, to ground that aircraft type if there is a serious incident or accident.

its already ground, they grounded it next day. The issue is will it be permanent or temp grounding. Rumors I have been hearing is that 5th aviation was already winding down the MRH-90 concentrationg on the CH-47 and AW-189. With blackhawks starting to arrive this year for 6th out of holdsworthy and starting to prepare the base and facilities for 1st aviation converting from tigers to apache and moving from darwin to townsville where they will be based with 5th aviation

[golder]

We will all wait and see. Last time, it's hard to blame the pilot, when the engine/gearbox blows up. The cause of this one will be known too.
https://www.abc.net.au/news/2023-04-...hing/102201316
Defence grounded the army's entire Taipan fleet after an MRH-90 suffered an engine failure and ditched during a training exercise

[megan]

Families have approved the public release of names.

Captain Daniel Lyon, Lieutenant Maxwell Nugent, Warrant Officer Class Two Joseph Laycock and Corporal Alexander Naggs, all members of the 6th Aviation Regiment,

RIP

[SpazSinbad]

RIP the crew. This is a rumour network - so here goes: "Two junior pilots and two inexperienced loadies, flew into the sea at cruise speed, so I have been told."

[9BIT]

Speculation doesn’t help

How many hours does one need to be experienced and have you considered the quality of the hours flown versus the quantity? LT and CPL maybe, CAPT and WO2 I doubt.