MRH-90 crash Australia
Nice to see nothing has changed at Pprune!
Talk about confected outrage over Spaz's comments, something I'm sure those posters would accuse "woke folk" of doing. Nowhere did I read Spaz disparaging the crew, he made a comment about the experience level of some of the crew that turned out to be inaccurate, he never used "inexperienced" in a demeaning manner. However, I guess if your view of being inexperienced is demeaning, I might be wrong.
Talk about confected outrage over Spaz's comments, something I'm sure those posters would accuse "woke folk" of doing. Nowhere did I read Spaz disparaging the crew, he made a comment about the experience level of some of the crew that turned out to be inaccurate, he never used "inexperienced" in a demeaning manner. However, I guess if your view of being inexperienced is demeaning, I might be wrong.
Go back to reading your W. E. Johns little man.
For those that hate rumours there is one about that the aircraft had just dropped off members of 2nd Commando Regiment.
Mods, putting considerable work on your shoulders with this link, please delete if it's too much.
https://www.defence.gov.au/news-even...sabre-incident
For those that hate rumours there is one about that the aircraft had just dropped off members of 2nd Commando Regiment.
Mods, putting considerable work on your shoulders with this link, please delete if it's too much.
https://www.defence.gov.au/news-even...sabre-incident
Go back to reading your W. E. Johns little man.
For those that hate rumours there is one about that the aircraft had just dropped off members of 2nd Commando Regiment.
Mods, putting considerable work on your shoulders with this link, please delete if it's too much.
https://www.defence.gov.au/news-even...sabre-incident
For those that hate rumours there is one about that the aircraft had just dropped off members of 2nd Commando Regiment.
Mods, putting considerable work on your shoulders with this link, please delete if it's too much.
https://www.defence.gov.au/news-even...sabre-incident
Thread Starter
OK children stop fighting. The crew was not inexperienced. The captain was blackops instructor as was the load master, the other 2 were experienced crew but its unknown how long they had been black ops qualified
In other news the a first replacement blackhawk has arrived. A few pictures have popped up of it being unloaded unloaded. Its the first of 4 expected to be delivered this year, on ADSB its A60002 and already had a flight. Might be the second one with that serial
In other news the a first replacement blackhawk has arrived. A few pictures have popped up of it being unloaded unloaded. Its the first of 4 expected to be delivered this year, on ADSB its A60002 and already had a flight. Might be the second one with that serial
Last edited by rattman; 5th Aug 2023 at 05:43.
Australian Aviation magazine reports that RNZAF had put a pause on their NH90 operations after the loss of the Australian Army MRH-90, A40-040, but have since removed that restriction again based on a risk assessment:
https://australianaviation.com.au/20...ops-head-home/
This makes me wonder what insights have been shared with the RNZAF by the ADF since the accident?
There is also this earlier ABC News item titled: "Army's first new Black Hawks arrive as 'secretive' Taipan crash investigation continues":
https://www.abc.net.au/news/2023-08-...nues/102695564
The tail end of the article by Andrew Greene has:
Separately, sticking with topic of public reporting, I don't recall hearing the findings into the cause of the loss of the first MH-60R of the RAN back in October 2021:
https://www.smh.com.au/politics/fede...14-p58zyw.html
https://aviation-safety.net/wikibase/268515
https://australianaviation.com.au/20...ops-head-home/
This makes me wonder what insights have been shared with the RNZAF by the ADF since the accident?
There is also this earlier ABC News item titled: "Army's first new Black Hawks arrive as 'secretive' Taipan crash investigation continues":
https://www.abc.net.au/news/2023-08-...nues/102695564
The tail end of the article by Andrew Greene has:
A military insider with knowledge of the investigation process claims information about last month's crash is being closely guarded with a "significant level of secrecy" hanging over the safety findings so far.
"The usual open and transparent behaviour of dealing with safety in general, let alone incidents is noticeably reduced," the army figure told the ABC, speaking on the condition of anonymity.
Lets hope early findings will / are at least being shared with other NH90 operators (if it believed to be any type specific issue), even if not the general public.Separately, sticking with topic of public reporting, I don't recall hearing the findings into the cause of the loss of the first MH-60R of the RAN back in October 2021:
https://www.smh.com.au/politics/fede...14-p58zyw.html
https://aviation-safety.net/wikibase/268515
Thread Starter
Know a few guys from 5th aviation, but I haven't asked them about the accident and they haven't said anything, but it sounds like SD and just flew into the water.
Oops, my post on the loss of the RAN MH-60R has cause 'thread drift'. But please junior.VH-LFA, can you clarify what report you are referring to? Is it in the public domain? If so, you could mention it in the thread on that loss, which I have brought back to the 'front'. So far, it only has an unconfirmed account of the cause as published in a newsletter of the FAA Association of Australia (Flyby Newsletter, Nov 2021, page 24).
Just observed the flypast for the funeral Of Lt. Maxwell Nugent from his old school, near me. A contingent of about 1000 military are expected, according to reports. The Pacific Highway and surrounding roads are closed.
Fair skies, soldier.
Fair skies, soldier.
The following users liked this post:
Thread Starter
Sad event and I do hope that the crew are found.
Rattman, I truly wish I had your insight and knowledge to draw parallels between 2 separate accidents, before both have been fully examined. Permanent grounding would seem a big call to those who don’t have the same incredible crash investigation conduct and completion ability as yourself. I do hope that you share your report with both the ADF and the ATSB.
Rattman, I truly wish I had your insight and knowledge to draw parallels between 2 separate accidents, before both have been fully examined. Permanent grounding would seem a big call to those who don’t have the same incredible crash investigation conduct and completion ability as yourself. I do hope that you share your report with both the ADF and the ATSB.
Why permanently ground a helicopter because of an accident that may very well have been simply due to operational risks (low flying at nicht over water has proven very accident prone -almost never tech related- over the past decades)? Pilots will be flying desks for a year and lose currency. Do you think that will benefit the safety on the new type? When then the first Blackhawk plows in do you want to ground them as well?
Guess I can be smug and laugh at you. Richard Marles, Australian defence minister has just announced a permanent grounding of taipans. It was bleeding obvious to anyone with half a brain that taipan would be never fly again regardless of it being a technical or pilot error.
Guess I can be smug and laugh at you. Richard Marles, Australian defence minister has just announced a permanent grounding of taipans. It was bleeding obvious to anyone with half a brain that taipan would be never fly again regardless of it being a technical or pilot error.
The investigation will make for incredibly sad reading. Be interesting to see the flow on effects for the worldwide fleet airworthiness of NH90’s. No doubt, the flow on effects for battlefield lift capability in the Aus Army will be drastic. The bottleneck of training continues to restrict.
Thread Starter
Congratulations. It would appear you are correct. Anyone with a full brain, probably like the Defence Minister, would have waited for facts from an investigation before making such a big decision on permanent grounding of a fleet.
The investigation will make for incredibly sad reading. Be interesting to see the flow on effects for the worldwide fleet airworthiness of NH90’s. No doubt, the flow on effects for battlefield lift capability in the Aus Army will be drastic. The bottleneck of training continues to restrict.
The investigation will make for incredibly sad reading. Be interesting to see the flow on effects for the worldwide fleet airworthiness of NH90’s. No doubt, the flow on effects for battlefield lift capability in the Aus Army will be drastic. The bottleneck of training continues to restrict.
https://www.minister.defence.gov.au/...r-fleet-update
This doesn’t add up. After the crash the CDF publicly stated the MRH was airworthy. Now its not airworthy because of well known problems. And, these problems are so bad they are willing to accept the contractual penalties, loss of capability and associated loss of flying proficiency.
Something smells
Something smells
It is curious. The OEM has had problems with the project, no question, but they mainly have been related to support issues. The incidents and accidents of the type have various causations, none other than operational appear to have common factors, and this class of helicopter has always had operational losses, it goes with the task. The justification for the removal of the type may have more to do with the cost of operation which comes down to the acquisition and support contract than the helicopters safety record. There have been some write offs, from the complete fleet, of which public information does not indicate any of these as yet having a mechanical cause. The Jarvis Bay ditching, where the machine did suffer an engine failure, may have been suitable to avoid being a W/O, but as the fleet is being withdrawn, that probably is not going to be the case. 3 incidents/accidents arose from engine failure, 2 in the ADF, and one with the French with an inflight fire/failure. All of the other events have been operational, such as the Italian, Dutch, Omani events.
The operational readiness appears to have been fairly dismal, but that is par for the course for complex tactical systems for the mission specialist cases. The design did have a number of compromises, and they were accepted in the selection phase, and then suddenly become an impediment later... about par for most systems acquisitions.
The project cost of these helicopters is considerable, and given that all helicopters operate in a challenging environment, that seems to be one of those things that has to be accepted or the designs selected should be less capital intensive. The task systems are always expensive, and the more they are integrated into the system with bespoke engineering the more problematic they are. When they have a USB-C connection for AEW/C or ASW change outs, then it may be that the cost of the systems over their life will become more rational. At present, if you want a specific capability, it comes with issues.
smelling? maybe.
The operational readiness appears to have been fairly dismal, but that is par for the course for complex tactical systems for the mission specialist cases. The design did have a number of compromises, and they were accepted in the selection phase, and then suddenly become an impediment later... about par for most systems acquisitions.
The project cost of these helicopters is considerable, and given that all helicopters operate in a challenging environment, that seems to be one of those things that has to be accepted or the designs selected should be less capital intensive. The task systems are always expensive, and the more they are integrated into the system with bespoke engineering the more problematic they are. When they have a USB-C connection for AEW/C or ASW change outs, then it may be that the cost of the systems over their life will become more rational. At present, if you want a specific capability, it comes with issues.
smelling? maybe.
Why would the minister ground the aircraft if it wasn’t caused by mechanical failure? To save money. How much is coming out of the Defence operating vote to pay for AUKUS?
Beez
Beez