MRH-90 crash Australia
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It was quoted they were formation flying low level over water at night, is that inaccurate too?
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I think the Chief of the Army hit the right note. (Transcript of media conference at Holsworthy Barracks, Sydney 1445K 30 July 2023)
JOURNALIST: Sir, can you tell us a bit more about these soldiers, their experience, how they were regarded by their colleagues and, of course, how their families are holding up?
LIEUTENANT-GENERAL SIMON STUART: Yeah, look, you've really got to feel for their families and their mates, and I would ask everybody to keep that in the front of their minds as they think and comment and speak about what has occurred. They're part of a really tight team in a very highly professional, highly skilled aviation unit. This is the aviation unit that supports and performs our special operations set of missions. I couldn't be more proud of them as professionals, as soldiers, and as people.
JOURNALIST: Sir, can I ask you about software upgrade issues on the Taipan helicopter? Is that going to be part of this current investigation that you're talking about? And also, is it part of the previous probe into the Jarvis Bay crash, similar with the Taipan helicopter?
LIEUTENANT-GENERAL SIMON STUART: Alright, so the Air Safety Investigation team arrived in Queensland today. They will do their work. It's very thorough investigative work, and the aim is to understand exactly what happened and why it happened. Speculation between now and them doing their work is really unhelpful. I'm not going to speculate, and I would ask others just to consider the families, the other aviators that are involved, and let's let that team do its work. We will find out what those outcomes are in due course. And the aim of being armed with that knowledge is to ensure that we understand what happened and we can prevent it happening again. As you probably know, we are not flying the MRH today, and we wait until we think it is safe to do so.
JOURNALIST: Sir, can you tell us a bit more about these soldiers, their experience, how they were regarded by their colleagues and, of course, how their families are holding up?
LIEUTENANT-GENERAL SIMON STUART: Yeah, look, you've really got to feel for their families and their mates, and I would ask everybody to keep that in the front of their minds as they think and comment and speak about what has occurred. They're part of a really tight team in a very highly professional, highly skilled aviation unit. This is the aviation unit that supports and performs our special operations set of missions. I couldn't be more proud of them as professionals, as soldiers, and as people.
JOURNALIST: Sir, can I ask you about software upgrade issues on the Taipan helicopter? Is that going to be part of this current investigation that you're talking about? And also, is it part of the previous probe into the Jarvis Bay crash, similar with the Taipan helicopter?
LIEUTENANT-GENERAL SIMON STUART: Alright, so the Air Safety Investigation team arrived in Queensland today. They will do their work. It's very thorough investigative work, and the aim is to understand exactly what happened and why it happened. Speculation between now and them doing their work is really unhelpful. I'm not going to speculate, and I would ask others just to consider the families, the other aviators that are involved, and let's let that team do its work. We will find out what those outcomes are in due course. And the aim of being armed with that knowledge is to ensure that we understand what happened and we can prevent it happening again. As you probably know, we are not flying the MRH today, and we wait until we think it is safe to do so.
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Go here for more: SpazSinbad A4G - Fleet Air Arm Association of Australia (faaaa.asn.au)
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We will all wait and see. Last time, it's hard to blame the pilot, when the engine/gearbox blows up. The cause of this one will be known too.
https://www.abc.net.au/news/2023-04-...hing/102201316
Defence grounded the army's entire Taipan fleet after an MRH-90 suffered an engine failure and ditched during a training exercise
https://www.abc.net.au/news/2023-04-...hing/102201316
Defence grounded the army's entire Taipan fleet after an MRH-90 suffered an engine failure and ditched during a training exercise
Most probably no relation to this tragic accident.
RIP.
I would have thought fellow ADF aircrew would be smarter than to throw out speculation before the lads have even been recovered. Instead you have decided to win some prize by throwing out disparaging comments about the crew, like you’re in the know - then wagging your willie about being a FJ guy like that get you credibility and excuses your behaviour.
I don’t have to throw out a comment telling you how that makes you look amongst your fellow ADF aircrew.
While I get that speculation is natural, those lads are not inexperienced. That was a Black Role Crew in a challenging flight regime at low level.
Rest in easy lads, I really hope you all come home soon.
Last edited by Parrot Pilot; 31st Jul 2023 at 00:13.
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Hopefully there is data to be extracted from various devices (assuming they don't have traditional FDR + CVR - do they?)
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'henra' opined above: "...hit the surface really hard...." 31 Jul 2023 "...Campbell [chief of the ADF, Gen Angus Campbell] declined to say whether an explosion may have occurred on the aircraft, but Marles said parts of the wreckage retrieved to date indicated that “there was a catastrophic impact of the helicopter when it hit the water”...." https://www.theguardian.com/australi...litary-victims
How many global BH hours flown, and how many global NH hours flown?
You're better than that.....
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Throughout 2013 Sergeant Laycock was primarily employed as the 171st Aviation Squadron Training Sergeant. Additionally, he was the Senior Qualified Aircrewman Instructor for the squadron. While performing these roles there were periods where he was also temporarily conducting the duties of the Regimental Aircrewman Standards Warrant Officer. This is a noteworthy achievement as very few similarly ranked members could manage the same responsibility. It was through superior knowledge, dedication and an exemplary work ethic that he excelled in all these positions.
Sergeant Laycock’s exceptional standards of professionalism, organisation, and commitment are an inspiration to his peers and subordinates and are in keeping with the highest traditions of the Australian Army.
Sergeant Laycock’s exceptional standards of professionalism, organisation, and commitment are an inspiration to his peers and subordinates and are in keeping with the highest traditions of the Australian Army.
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Fair enough about the 'experience' of some of the crew. Research is always good. [Perhaps you do not realise the crew were not known at the time the comment about their experience was made - I take the comment of inexperience is about their [b]SD on a black night over water issue perhaps.] However I'm not pulling my head in. The rumour (not generated by me but passed on by me here) seems accurate in that the helo catastrophically impacted the water. Perhaps Spatial Disorientation at Night had an evil hand in the loss of the crew, especially perhaps if the crew were not used to flying low over the ocean on a black night. Just my guess. SD can be experienced at any time depending upon many factors. Your research about 'black night SD low over water' will help you understand. SD affects all aircrew in flight - unrecognised SD can be fatal as in the instance below.
A very experienced Japanese Air Force pilot probably experienced unrecognised SD at night in an F-35A at high altitude but he flew into the water at a very high speed: Japan blames spatial disorientation for F-35 crash (defensenews.com)
A very experienced Japanese Air Force pilot probably experienced unrecognised SD at night in an F-35A at high altitude but he flew into the water at a very high speed: Japan blames spatial disorientation for F-35 crash (defensenews.com)
Last edited by SpazSinbad; 1st Aug 2023 at 02:37. Reason: add [ ] & last para
its already ground, they grounded it next day. The issue is will it be permanent or temp grounding. Rumors I have been hearing is that 5th aviation was already winding down the MRH-90 concentrationg on the CH-47 and AW-189. With blackhawks starting to arrive this year for 6th out of holdsworthy and starting to prepare the base and facilities for 1st aviation converting from tigers to apache and moving from darwin to townsville where they will be based with 5th aviation
Fair enough about the 'experience' of some of the crew. Research is always good. [Perhaps you do not realise the crew were not known at the time the comment about their experience was made - I take the comment of inexperience is about their [b]SD on a black night over water issue perhaps.] However I'm not pulling my head in. The rumour (not generated by me but passed on by me here) seems accurate in that the helo catastrophically impacted the water. Perhaps Spatial Disorientation at Night had an evil hand in the loss of the crew, especially perhaps if the crew were not used to flying low over the ocean on a black night. Just my guess. SD can be experienced at any time depending upon many factors. Your research about 'black night SD low over water' will help you understand. SD affects all aircrew in flight - unrecognised SD can be fatal as in the instance below.
A very experienced Japanese Air Force pilot probably experienced unrecognised SD at night in an F-35A at high altitude but he flew into the water at a very high speed: Japan blames spatial disorientation for F-35 crash (defensenews.com)
A very experienced Japanese Air Force pilot probably experienced unrecognised SD at night in an F-35A at high altitude but he flew into the water at a very high speed: Japan blames spatial disorientation for F-35 crash (defensenews.com)
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The 'YOU' in this instance was the 'rumour maker' which I passed on. At that time I could not know the names hence experience but trusted the 'rumour maker' who may have been referring to the accident conditions as I have outlined above. But hey criticise me all you want but don't lose sight of this fatal accident with potential causes such as SD that give any aircrew pause for thought. For example from the great GOOGLE: https://www.faa.gov/pilots/safety/pi...d_visillus.pdf "Any differences or discrepancies between visual, vestibular, and proprioceptive sensory inputs result in a “sensory mismatch” that can produce illusions and lead to spatial disorientation.... [just one example] False Visual Reference Illusions may cause you to orient your aircraft in relation to a false horizon; these illusions are caused by flying over a banked cloud, night flying over featureless terrain with ground lights that are indistinguishable from a dark sky with stars, or night flying over a featureless terrain [water] with a ... dark, starless sky...."
For more and there is plenty GOOGLE: "Helicopter" Spatial Disorientation at night Low over Water
For more and there is plenty GOOGLE: "Helicopter" Spatial Disorientation at night Low over Water