UPO Travel Claims
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UPO Travel Claims
Recently found out that a claim for an extra flight I had to pay for when leave dates were changed will not be reimbursed, leaving me 170 quid out of pocket for a flight I can't change or use. Had I waited any longer to book, I wouldn't have gotten a seat at all and spent 12 hours to get home on the train. VISA didn't want to know so far as insurance for purchases goes. Surely I must have some options here to get my money back from the service. I have no problem with the fact that my leave etc can be changed or withdrawn when required, but should I be out of pocket for it? Am I doomed to a life of losing wads everytime dates are changed? Please say i'm not.
Thanks for any suggestions
BL
Thanks for any suggestions
BL
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BL
Unfortunately not a lot you can do on this occasion as it is a well known and publicised fact that we are told to ensure we have a comprehensive travel insurance policy in place. Pop into your nearest NAAFI and look for the Serviceguard Travel Protection Policy. This will cover everything for you, including leave cancellation etc, but remember, the military will only ever pay the premium excess and not the full amount; this is what is claimed off the insurance Co.
NAAFI Financial can also be called on 01603 205209.
Hope this helps.
HPT
Unfortunately not a lot you can do on this occasion as it is a well known and publicised fact that we are told to ensure we have a comprehensive travel insurance policy in place. Pop into your nearest NAAFI and look for the Serviceguard Travel Protection Policy. This will cover everything for you, including leave cancellation etc, but remember, the military will only ever pay the premium excess and not the full amount; this is what is claimed off the insurance Co.
NAAFI Financial can also be called on 01603 205209.
Hope this helps.
HPT
Join Date: Apr 2002
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I had to cancel my hols due to the company and, after a bit of negotiation, the insurers look like they're going to pay up. The expression they used was "...if as a member of HM Forces, Police etc you are unexpectedly and unavoidably called upon for emergency duty, with a supporting letter from your supervisor etc..." Providing you have your boss include the 3 key words - unexpectedly, unavoidably and emergency, they can't really argue. (mine was, btw, so it wasn't fraud !!)
As for the RAF, they have a little-publicised form to claim "nugatory holiday expenses" which will (or should) reimburse you up to £200 of qualifying costs. This also includes the actual premium you paid (makes sense - why should you be out of pocket buying insurance for a holiday you couldn't go on ?), but 'an adminner' says that although it says so fairly clearly on the form, they don't tend to pay that bit. As ever, be nice to the adminners and you might be lucky !
As for the RAF, they have a little-publicised form to claim "nugatory holiday expenses" which will (or should) reimburse you up to £200 of qualifying costs. This also includes the actual premium you paid (makes sense - why should you be out of pocket buying insurance for a holiday you couldn't go on ?), but 'an adminner' says that although it says so fairly clearly on the form, they don't tend to pay that bit. As ever, be nice to the adminners and you might be lucky !
Why should we have to be "nice" to the adminers. Surely they are there to support the rest of us, and should be doing their job to the best of their ability by helping us to claim everything that we are entitled to, instead of behaving as if every penny came out of their personal pockets!
I fell foul of the thieving ba$tards at Binnsworth a couple of years ago over NHE. Despite support from everyone including my boss, some faceless Warrant Officer Blunty at Binnsworth refused to pay up. Yes, OK - I could afford it. But had I been SAC Penniless with a clutch of kids.....
It's one thing to insure against reasonable risk, but NOT against the manning incompetence of the total idiots at Binnsworth. Investors in People? My ar$e!!
It's one thing to insure against reasonable risk, but NOT against the manning incompetence of the total idiots at Binnsworth. Investors in People? My ar$e!!
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Vortex & Beagle
Agree with both your posts but, as you know, the niceties of rule books are used to substantiate 'not entitled' cases and become a matter of interpretation by the 'faceless', often based on little more than wind direction.
I didn't say it was right, just said that's how it is. That said, when you do stumble across a good adminner, avoid treating him/her as a baffoon and normally you get more help. If you choose the baffoon option, don't expect much back.
Agree with both your posts but, as you know, the niceties of rule books are used to substantiate 'not entitled' cases and become a matter of interpretation by the 'faceless', often based on little more than wind direction.
I didn't say it was right, just said that's how it is. That said, when you do stumble across a good adminner, avoid treating him/her as a baffoon and normally you get more help. If you choose the baffoon option, don't expect much back.
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Totally agree with Vortex on this one. These people are employed to process claims and administrate. Having to be nice to them is not an option in order to receive what is an entitlement. Admittedly no-one likes to be spoken to in a rude manner and it doesn't hurt to be polite but at the end of the day it is their job and it must be done.
A JNCO colleague of mine had a pay issue and went to see his PD clerk. The clerk assured him it would be sorted. Come next chit day and it hadn't been, the reason being that the correction hadn't hit Binnsworth before the pay run. Gunner accepted this and clerk promised it would be sorted, well it wasn't. Gunner spoke to SAC clerk who was very dismissive. Gunner then ordered him to complete the correction. Next month same problem, Gunner looked through out tray and found the paperwork untouched. It had been placed there because the clerk thought he would teach the Gunner a lesson. The Gunner stood the clerk up in Gen Office and charged him with disobeying an order.
You can imagine the row that followed from CHF Clerk to OC PSF and OC Admin at the heavy handed way in which the Gunner had behaved. He stuck to his guns and the clerk was found guilty and received jankers.
The Gunner is a good bloke and doesn't throw his weight about however, this time he had a genuine grievence and used the system. If any of us in the military deliberatley screwed our jobs up, have a think about what the results may be. We would be nailed for it. Clerks come under the same rules!
End of sermon according to me.
A JNCO colleague of mine had a pay issue and went to see his PD clerk. The clerk assured him it would be sorted. Come next chit day and it hadn't been, the reason being that the correction hadn't hit Binnsworth before the pay run. Gunner accepted this and clerk promised it would be sorted, well it wasn't. Gunner spoke to SAC clerk who was very dismissive. Gunner then ordered him to complete the correction. Next month same problem, Gunner looked through out tray and found the paperwork untouched. It had been placed there because the clerk thought he would teach the Gunner a lesson. The Gunner stood the clerk up in Gen Office and charged him with disobeying an order.
You can imagine the row that followed from CHF Clerk to OC PSF and OC Admin at the heavy handed way in which the Gunner had behaved. He stuck to his guns and the clerk was found guilty and received jankers.
The Gunner is a good bloke and doesn't throw his weight about however, this time he had a genuine grievence and used the system. If any of us in the military deliberatley screwed our jobs up, have a think about what the results may be. We would be nailed for it. Clerks come under the same rules!
End of sermon according to me.
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Royal
Nice to hear someone taking them to task and I tip my hat to your mate for sticking to his guns (no pun intended).
One of the problems I've encountered recently is there is little or no accountability within the admin world and, when a customer does get a raw deal, the walls go up.
One thing I find amazing is the only way to get something done - or to get someone higher up the food chain to take notice - is to stick a Redress in, which, no matter what your case is, instantly puts backs up and results in a 'troublemaker' label.
The 'open door' isn't, IIP is merely a tick and "people are our greatest asset" literature rubs salt in many wounds. There are far too many individuals at Innsworth who just 'do their jobs', with nobody checking what direction the ship is sailing in. Perhaps by taking some senior officers from 'Recruiting and PR' and giving them a new job in 'Retention and Customer Care' the jobsworths may have a new fear - accountability.
Moreover, why not appoint someone on each unit to act as the AMPLT's snitches, with direct access to AMP staff, so they can resolve clearly unfair treatment with a phonecall ?
If the chain can't cope, perhaps it's time to take out a few links until we get access to someone who maybe does care.
Nice to hear someone taking them to task and I tip my hat to your mate for sticking to his guns (no pun intended).
One of the problems I've encountered recently is there is little or no accountability within the admin world and, when a customer does get a raw deal, the walls go up.
One thing I find amazing is the only way to get something done - or to get someone higher up the food chain to take notice - is to stick a Redress in, which, no matter what your case is, instantly puts backs up and results in a 'troublemaker' label.
The 'open door' isn't, IIP is merely a tick and "people are our greatest asset" literature rubs salt in many wounds. There are far too many individuals at Innsworth who just 'do their jobs', with nobody checking what direction the ship is sailing in. Perhaps by taking some senior officers from 'Recruiting and PR' and giving them a new job in 'Retention and Customer Care' the jobsworths may have a new fear - accountability.
Moreover, why not appoint someone on each unit to act as the AMPLT's snitches, with direct access to AMP staff, so they can resolve clearly unfair treatment with a phonecall ?
If the chain can't cope, perhaps it's time to take out a few links until we get access to someone who maybe does care.
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Take a careful look at your holiday insurance policies post Sept 11. I have used Advantage Travevel Club, TSD Sigma as advertised in the forces discount brochure, for several years. Post 911 they suspended the leave cancellation clause on new policies. I don't know if this cancellation is still in force. Even good insurance policies do not always help. A couple of years ago I went on a trip to the states due to get back a full 13 days before my leave was due to begin. ( Trip to Capetown £1000ish). We arrived at Goose on the return leg 10 days late, u/s with a 3 day estimate for receipt of spares. I phoned the squdron to ask if I could be replaced. Certainly they said, if I paid for my own Air Canada flight home. ( £270 and covered by my insurance), and paid for a business class flight for my replacement (£2000 ish, and not covered by any policy). I did eventualy get back in time (just) but it is caring attitude like that that kept me in the service (not)
FOMere2eternity has pretty much hit the nail on the head. I recently had a situation where I believed I was entitled to something, so wrote to PMA for clarification. I received a fairly dismissive letter from a Warrant Officer quoting an ambiguous AP chapter and an equally vague QR. Dissattisfied, I redressed his department, and won. He had obviously tried to take the easy option, which resulted in an unnecessary expenditure of time, effort and, presumably, money. I wonder what action was taken to prevent similar situations occurring?
Whilst I am satisfied with the outcome of my redress, I am far from happy with the general quality of service, efficiency, and accountability to its customers (ie Me & You) that the Personnel Management Agency provides. Yet there seems to be no mechanism in place to highlight these concerns or point out the shortcomings, other than the redress system. And where does the redress go?…PMA!
I get the distinct impression that PMA would be an extremely efficient organisation and a great place to work............................if only the rest of the air force would stop bothering them!
Whilst I am satisfied with the outcome of my redress, I am far from happy with the general quality of service, efficiency, and accountability to its customers (ie Me & You) that the Personnel Management Agency provides. Yet there seems to be no mechanism in place to highlight these concerns or point out the shortcomings, other than the redress system. And where does the redress go?…PMA!
I get the distinct impression that PMA would be an extremely efficient organisation and a great place to work............................if only the rest of the air force would stop bothering them!
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Perhaps the really nice people who work in the UPO should be reminded that they work for the same side and that the money that is being claimed is not actually theirs and comes from somone elses wallet. Have you ever seen a poor supply officer or one who doesn't get what they are entitled to? They're always at the front of the queue for jollies and adventurous training while those at the sharp end can't have the time off. And when you do have a problem it isn't their fault and it takes 3 months to sort out at least.
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I think part of the problem is the sheer bulk of paperwork our admin people have to wade through. Most units have a SAMA network, so why can't this be adapted, so that we can just sit down at a terminal and submit claims and forms, direct to the relevant department or agency?
If a signature is required for fraud prevention purposes, this could be submitted via an electronic pad. I rarely touch any paperwork when dealing with my personal financial and administrative affairs, so, why is the RAF administrative system still so Dickensian?
As for having an AMPLT rep at each unit, nice idea. But, as we all know, RAF stations are run like little mafias and the CO and his execs would simply make the poor soul's life intolerable!
If a signature is required for fraud prevention purposes, this could be submitted via an electronic pad. I rarely touch any paperwork when dealing with my personal financial and administrative affairs, so, why is the RAF administrative system still so Dickensian?
As for having an AMPLT rep at each unit, nice idea. But, as we all know, RAF stations are run like little mafias and the CO and his execs would simply make the poor soul's life intolerable!
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Thanks for all the advice folks. As an ex RAF officer i've seen this nonsense from two different angles now, a shame it's no different in my new service. I'll be a lot more careful from now on about when I book things...bet my "social" life outside work'll be a riot!
BL
BL
Gentleman Aviator
But why is so much paper still paper? I understand that Cisco, the computer firm, has something like 15 people TOTAL doing the travel claims and allowances for mega thousands of people world wide. Understandably. they have good IT to make it work.
We've got more than that in the average Gen Office? Why? Come back Admin Guru and tell us!
We've got more than that in the average Gen Office? Why? Come back Admin Guru and tell us!
