High altitude object shot down
No...Forget the balloons, forget the helium, forget those earthly mundane things...for the last hours US are talking with their respective Chinese and Russian counterparts because they are also experiencing the same "issues" regarding shooting down UAP these last days on their airspace ... Is it so bloody painful to admit we are dealing with some entities wich we don't know anything about..? Or is it some syndrome of arrogance that we must understand everything?
People doesn't deserve the truth because they are not prepared at all...
People doesn't deserve the truth because they are not prepared at all...
Give it a rest, please.
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They also say that all three objects crash landed in remote areas that are difficult to search in the winter. No surprise.
Both types of balloon float or fly for the same reason.
Helium has a lower density than air so it floats above it, make the Helium balloon big enough and the difference is large enough to carry a payload, instruments or people, or bombs, or missiles or chocolate eggs.
Hot air balloons heat the air trapped inside the envelope which reduces its density to less than the surrounding atmospheric air so it rises up for exactly the same reason as a helium balloon. !!!
Helium has a lower density than air so it floats above it, make the Helium balloon big enough and the difference is large enough to carry a payload, instruments or people, or bombs, or missiles or chocolate eggs.
Hot air balloons heat the air trapped inside the envelope which reduces its density to less than the surrounding atmospheric air so it rises up for exactly the same reason as a helium balloon. !!!
Oh, this will be fun...
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They say they reset the parameters for what they looked for on radar, which is why they spotted three unknown objects floating on the wind.
He also says that it is difficult for a high speed jet to get a good look at what is essentially/relatively a stationary object.
They also say that all three objects crash landed in remote areas that are difficult to search in the winter. No surprise.
They also said that it was reasonable to shoot down things that were floating at an altitude that could encounter commercial aviation.
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He also says that it is difficult for a high speed jet to get a good look at what is essentially/relatively a stationary object.
They also say that all three objects crash landed in remote areas that are difficult to search in the winter. No surprise.
They also said that it was reasonable to shoot down things that were floating at an altitude that could encounter commercial aviation.
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Fulton Recovery.
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The first balloon may have prompted NORAD to adjust their radar settings whereupon the smaller objects showed up on the scopes.
A possibility is that hobbyists lost control of their toys over months, possibly years, and they have only lately shown up on radar.
They may be motivated to keep quiet lest they get billed for the cost of a Sidewinder.
A possibility is that hobbyists lost control of their toys over months, possibly years, and they have only lately shown up on radar.
They may be motivated to keep quiet lest they get billed for the cost of a Sidewinder.
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A Canadian CF-18 pilot, told me during flights we did on the Airbus , that the CF-18 A in track/scan mode couldn't track a target with a ground speed below about 120 knots. It would be invisible to the onboard radar. So a C-150 could penetrate NORAD airspace,
and aircraft scrambled to look for an intruder, wouldn't "see it". This was 10 years ago or so..
Any comments?
and aircraft scrambled to look for an intruder, wouldn't "see it". This was 10 years ago or so..
Any comments?
Last edited by Retired DC9 driver; 14th Feb 2023 at 00:00. Reason: added details
A Canadian CF-18 pilot, told me during flights we did on the Airbus , that the CF-18 A in track/scan mode couldn't track a target with a ground speed below about 120 knots. It would be invisible to the onboard radar. So a C-150 could penetrate NORAD airspace,
and aircraft scrambled to look for an intruder, wouldn't "see it". This was 10 years ago or so..
Any comments?
and aircraft scrambled to look for an intruder, wouldn't "see it". This was 10 years ago or so..
Any comments?
Ground based radars operating in pure 'primary' mode with no forms of processing or MTI can see traffic at all speeds.
If we can shoot satellites out of space with ground/sea/air based lasers, why spend the money and resources to send up fighter jets and expend missiles when a quick burst will burn a hole and deflate these 'objects'? Even getting school kids to shine mirrors up at them will heat them and make them drift off course.
Alternately, can't we just send Biggles up with a nail gun to pop holes in them? A twenty second burst of three inch nails will surely make some slow leaking holes and they can be brought down slowly and safely for investigation? Cheaper than a SideWInder each time.
Given their speed and drift patterns, I would be surprised if many more were not already aloft and lined up in the stratosphere for closer inspection by the military over the next few weeks The mystery won't be around for much longer - somebody that has been briefed will break down and confess to the baying media.
PS: Why does the forum change 'l-a-ser' to 'l@ser' on display but not in edit?
Alternately, can't we just send Biggles up with a nail gun to pop holes in them? A twenty second burst of three inch nails will surely make some slow leaking holes and they can be brought down slowly and safely for investigation? Cheaper than a SideWInder each time.
Given their speed and drift patterns, I would be surprised if many more were not already aloft and lined up in the stratosphere for closer inspection by the military over the next few weeks The mystery won't be around for much longer - somebody that has been briefed will break down and confess to the baying media.
PS: Why does the forum change 'l-a-ser' to 'l@ser' on display but not in edit?
Salute!
Do not forget, Chevron, that most ATC and other ground radars have various filters in place to dimish detection of flocks of birds, very small objects like escaped birthday balloons, and so forth.
Word on the street is a lotta NORAD radar filters are being adjusted.
Gums sends...
Do not forget, Chevron, that most ATC and other ground radars have various filters in place to dimish detection of flocks of birds, very small objects like escaped birthday balloons, and so forth.
Word on the street is a lotta NORAD radar filters are being adjusted.
Gums sends...
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mathias_Rust
Small plane lands near Red Square by the Kremlin in 1987.
Small plane lands near Red Square by the Kremlin in 1987.
A teenage amateur pilot, he flew from Helsinki, Finland, to Moscow…
The Soviet fighters did not receive permission to shoot him down, and his aeroplane was mistaken for a friendly aircraft several times.
…Rust, aged 18, was an inexperienced pilot, with about 50 hours of flying experience at the time of his flight.
The Soviet fighters did not receive permission to shoot him down, and his aeroplane was mistaken for a friendly aircraft several times.
…Rust, aged 18, was an inexperienced pilot, with about 50 hours of flying experience at the time of his flight.
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Salute!
Do not forget, Chevron, that most ATC and other ground radars have various filters in place to dimish detection of flocks of birds, very small objects like escaped birthday balloons, and so forth.
Word on the street is a lotta NORAD radar filters are being adjusted.
Gums sends...
Do not forget, Chevron, that most ATC and other ground radars have various filters in place to dimish detection of flocks of birds, very small objects like escaped birthday balloons, and so forth.
Word on the street is a lotta NORAD radar filters are being adjusted.
Gums sends...
Someone asked the question, what if people loaded up a Cessna with explosives and wandered along at 90 knots, on a one way trip. That resulted in
Aegis being deployed with sailors stood on the deck to operate Stinger missiles, trained off the coast at Point Mugu tracking and firing at 1/2 scale Cessna 150’s launched from a USN barge.
Thats over 30 years ago, but I can imagine much the same thing happened here, now.
Too much clutter, never happen, oh dear, turn the gain all the way up, zero the lower scale, now we will chase everything and anything.
At $400k+ each AIM, that’s going to get expensive quickly.
Salute!
Do not forget, Chevron, that most ATC and other ground radars have various filters in place to dimish detection of flocks of birds, very small objects like escaped birthday balloons, and so forth.
Word on the street is a lotta NORAD radar filters are being adjusted.
Gums sends...
Do not forget, Chevron, that most ATC and other ground radars have various filters in place to dimish detection of flocks of birds, very small objects like escaped birthday balloons, and so forth.
Word on the street is a lotta NORAD radar filters are being adjusted.
Gums sends...
Ecce Homo! Loquitur...
ATC radars do, but I was talking about UK air defence radars (apart from Fylingdales) which are entirely different and as for NORAD radars, they were designed with ICBM type speeds in mind.
In the old days you could play around manually with processing to tweak it (MTI, PLD, swept gain, reverse swept gain, dickie fix etc) even drop out beams. But they are there for a reason, without them a picture could get so cluttered, especially from cloud and precipitation it became hard to pick out aircraft. There were times in summer where ANAPROP became so bad that, regardless of processing, we couldn’t safely control at all.
Once you got to digital 3D radars where the processing is done automatically in thousands of small discrete blocks defined range, azimuth and height it’s impossible to do except by programming and changing it has implications for certification and flight safety. e.g. will the increase in background noise affect track forming? (either not forming a track or forming numerous false tracks)
When they say “tweak” it’s not someone just turning a knob up or down any more.
(p.s. NORAD radars on the DEW line are exactly the same and designed to pick up manned bombers and cruise missiles. BMEWS radars for space watch are a different type, and the OTH-B radars got handed over to the civilians for scientific research)
Last edited by ORAC; 14th Feb 2023 at 06:02.
Shooting down a balloon is not as easy as it sounds, said Kim.
"These balloons use helium... It's not the Hindenburg, you can't just shoot it and then and then it goes up in flames."
"If you do punch holes in it, it's just kind of going to leak out very slowly."
Kim recalled that in 1998 the Canadian air force sent up F-18 fighter jets to try and shoot down a rogue weather balloon.
"They fired a thousand 20-millimeter cannon rounds into it. And it still took six days before it finally came down. These are not things that explode or pop when you shoot at them."
He said it was not clear if using surface-to-air missiles would work, because their guidance systems are designed to hit fast-moving missiles and aircraft.
Any ideas?
If it is at 100k have we anything that can get up there?
"These balloons use helium... It's not the Hindenburg, you can't just shoot it and then and then it goes up in flames."
"If you do punch holes in it, it's just kind of going to leak out very slowly."
Kim recalled that in 1998 the Canadian air force sent up F-18 fighter jets to try and shoot down a rogue weather balloon.
"They fired a thousand 20-millimeter cannon rounds into it. And it still took six days before it finally came down. These are not things that explode or pop when you shoot at them."
He said it was not clear if using surface-to-air missiles would work, because their guidance systems are designed to hit fast-moving missiles and aircraft.
Any ideas?
If it is at 100k have we anything that can get up there?
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