High altitude object shot down
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I would respectfully disagree. The latest war has shown that Russia’s Air Force is technologically not on a par with the West. A paper tiger if you will. I imagine the West is sitting pretty happy right now with the capabilities they have that they know work effectively, F22 being just one. And I doubt any valuable intelligence was given away by an F22 shooting a heat seeking missile at a balloon.
Don't need decryption if you're looking at countermeasures against the techniques being used.. In broad brush terms you can counter pretty much any threat if you have enough data. This isn't really about decrypting secure comms. It's about China playing catch up with sensors and weapons.
And maybe the USA realise what is going on, after all it isnt that hard to imagine is it, so maybe their response whatever it was, was designed so as to not give too much away if anything.
Lets face it, huge great unarmed slow moving object shot down by US fighter jet using whatever, not a very hard thing to do, and that isnt going to tell them anything they didnt already know.
Few moments ago General Glen VanHerck, commander of North American Aerospace Defense Command and U.S. Northern Command, when asked if those "crafts" were some Extraterrestrial origins he simply said "I haven't ruled out anything."
So...what more could be said?
https://www.reuters.com/world/us/rul...et-2023-02-13/
So...what more could be said?
https://www.reuters.com/world/us/rul...et-2023-02-13/
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UK to examine threat
Ben Wallace said he would work with the US and other partners to examine intelligence and assess the threat posed by the surveillance devices.
Westminster’s review will be used to determine whether changes need to be made to the surveillance of Britain’s skies. Mr Wallace said earlier this week that Chinese spy balloons may well have already circled the UK.
Speaking to The Sun, he said: “Is it the case that a Chinese satellite has probably circled Britain and looked at us? I should think yes’.
On Sunday night, he said: “The UK and her allies will review what these airspace intrusions mean for our security. This development is another sign of how the global threat picture is changing for the worse.”
The White House said Chinese balloons had been spotted over five continents, though it did not specify which ones.
Ecce Homo! Loquitur...
They coul£ have been flying balloons through NATO airspace for years and no one will even have been aware as the processing used to remove cloud clutter from radar (Doppler MTI/MTD), will also remove anything drifting with the wind.
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Ecce Homo! Loquitur...
Don’t knock it. Drifting with the (solar) wind is a reliable means of travel - if you’re not in a hurry.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Solar_sail
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Solar_sail
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We're unable to immediately determine the means by which any of the three latest objects were kept aloft or where they were coming from]
- There is a provocation in act, a sort of show of will and abilities directed against the US and it's allies.
- It doesn't just demonstrate the ability of getting above or very close to pretty much any point over the Noth, but also the ability of assembling and launching these from domestic soil, or Canadian one. Both are very worrying.
- The objects could be rotary wing(s) drones, fully enclosed? Maybe some expert could comment on the physics and technology needed to fly them to 40,000 ft.
- The shutdown by with live AIM missile is debatable. An unarmed missiles, like the one used with the ballon over sea would have preserved debris for analysis. Although, it could have been feared that it may have missed a small object.
- A kinetic knock out device should be used, something that can embed into the target or grab to it, then descend by chute.
Maybe true, but I wasnt answering that question, I was answering a question about a super computer decrypting messages.
And maybe the USA realise what is going on, after all it isnt that hard to imagine is it, so maybe their response whatever it was, was designed so as to not give too much away if anything.
Lets face it, huge great unarmed slow moving object shot down by US fighter jet using whatever, not a very hard thing to do, and that isnt going to tell them anything they didnt already know.
And maybe the USA realise what is going on, after all it isnt that hard to imagine is it, so maybe their response whatever it was, was designed so as to not give too much away if anything.
Lets face it, huge great unarmed slow moving object shot down by US fighter jet using whatever, not a very hard thing to do, and that isnt going to tell them anything they didnt already know.
This isn't what this is about though. There are no important "messages" during the key stages of acquisition and attack. It's about sensors. Knowing how any active sensors are finding, and getting a fire control solution, up to the point of impact has a high value. Even passive sensors have unwanted emissions. If you're close enough there is a chance those emissions could also be relayed via an uplink and used to gain insight into the detail of the way they work.
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There is so much about this that doesn’t add up. The first balloon was clearly identifiable as such, and the Chinese immediately laid claim to it. The next 3 were much smaller and couldn’t even be positively identified as balloons, one was cylindrical and now this latest one is described as octagonal - I haven’t seen any claims from the Chinese that any of the subsequent 3 “unknown aerial vehicles” belong to them, or did I miss that ?
I’m trying not to start forming the Bacofoil into a Trilby but I can’t help but wonder if the first balloon came from a very different source than those that followed ?
I’m trying not to start forming the Bacofoil into a Trilby but I can’t help but wonder if the first balloon came from a very different source than those that followed ?
Exploding Asteroid
What a shame the media have reported the exploding asteroid over the English Channel.
If we had been quicker, we could have claimed that the RAF's QRA bravely launched and shot down a threatening object before it made landfall.
If we had been quicker, we could have claimed that the RAF's QRA bravely launched and shot down a threatening object before it made landfall.
A series of incursions by suspected Chinese spy balloons into Western airspace has prompted the UK defence secretary to call for a security review.
Ben Wallace said he would work with the US and other partners to examine intelligence and assess the threat posed by the surveillance devices.
Westminster’s review will be used to determine whether changes need to be made to the surveillance of Britain’s skies. Mr Wallace said earlier this week that Chinese spy balloons may well have already circled the UK.
Speaking to The Sun, he said: “Is it the case that a Chinese satellite has probably circled Britain and looked at us? I should think yes’.
On Sunday night, he said: “The UK and her allies will review what these airspace intrusions mean for our security. This development is another sign of how the global threat picture is changing for the worse.”
The White House said Chinese balloons had been spotted over five continents, though it did not specify which ones.
Ben Wallace said he would work with the US and other partners to examine intelligence and assess the threat posed by the surveillance devices.
Westminster’s review will be used to determine whether changes need to be made to the surveillance of Britain’s skies. Mr Wallace said earlier this week that Chinese spy balloons may well have already circled the UK.
Speaking to The Sun, he said: “Is it the case that a Chinese satellite has probably circled Britain and looked at us? I should think yes’.
On Sunday night, he said: “The UK and her allies will review what these airspace intrusions mean for our security. This development is another sign of how the global threat picture is changing for the worse.”
The White House said Chinese balloons had been spotted over five continents, though it did not specify which ones.
Laughingly or not ago over the decades when I commuted up the A14 to midlands for work, 7 am, see Virgin Atlantic balloon over Cambs countryside in the summer. Drifting over Molesworth (re JAC) direction or wyton ….looking back now get…never know if the Pax have some other ideas bar sightseeing or if they have any ulterior motives in their minds or electronic stuff. probably not but hey ho.
May last year was drinking with mate in the King of the Belgians in Hartford (plenty of aviation stickers on the bar , probably due to locals from Wyton and Alconbury) and saw Virgin balloon drifting over Wyton..
Potentially a mini DIY ELINT SIGINT in a rucksack..
Anyhow his good self has added humor to
cheers
I muss say I am a bit lost here.
I think that by far the most likely scenario is these “UFOs” are some kinds of balloons, which are being exploited by many countries in many ways for decades - basically routine non event. The question being: why now - aka what is “new” that all the sudden the USAF is shooting them down left, right and center ?
Now, obviously, if those are NOT balloons things are getting much, much more interesting !
I think that by far the most likely scenario is these “UFOs” are some kinds of balloons, which are being exploited by many countries in many ways for decades - basically routine non event. The question being: why now - aka what is “new” that all the sudden the USAF is shooting them down left, right and center ?
Now, obviously, if those are NOT balloons things are getting much, much more interesting !
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Avoid imitations
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One of the latest objects was reported to have strings on it. I’ve seen octagonal and cylindrical kites being flown in China….
Don’t knock it. Drifting with the (solar) wind is a reliable means of travel - if you’re not in a hurry.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Solar_sail
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Solar_sail
All these comments of "no visible means of propulsion", "unable to confirm terrestrial origin" etc, translate to "I am not cleared to tell you that the balloon is a balloon".
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Which balloons? From the interview to the head of US NORAD linked above:
I was hoping that a flight community would offer at least some speculation on that., but I saw none, so here's my 5c.
I was hoping that a flight community would offer at least some speculation on that., but I saw none, so here's my 5c.
- There is a provocation in act, a sort of show of will and abilities directed against the US and it's allies.
- It doesn't just demonstrate the ability of getting above or very close to pretty much any point over the Noth, but also the ability of assembling and launching these from domestic soil, or Canadian one. Both are very worrying.
- The objects could be rotary wing(s) drones, fully enclosed? Maybe some expert could comment on the physics and technology needed to fly them to 40,000 ft.
- The shutdown by with live AIM missile is debatable. An unarmed missiles, like the one used with the ballon over sea would have preserved debris for analysis. Although, it could have been feared that it may have missed a small object.
- A kinetic knock out device should be used, something that can embed into the target or grab to it, then descend by chute.
Do you think the first big balloon was the launch vehicle for the much smaller subsequent vehicles?
Different altitudes, positions/time for each one have been reported. So can the wind at the various altitudes account for the subsequent vehicles positions. That would lend weight to them all being balloons of Chinese origin.
In my experience, (over 35 years of watching radar screens) UK air defence can use totally uncancelled/unprocessed radar when they need to and that will show ALL targets both moving and static no matter how slowly they are moving.
Last edited by chevvron; 13th Feb 2023 at 09:57.
It seems strange that the US routinely tracks small items of satellite debris in orbit, but apparently cannot track a balloon that is carrying a metallic payload and in some cases a large solar array with copper cables.