Go Back  PPRuNe Forums > Aircrew Forums > Military Aviation
Reload this Page >

Can Wigston survive the onslaught?

Wikiposts
Search
Military Aviation A forum for the professionals who fly military hardware. Also for the backroom boys and girls who support the flying and maintain the equipment, and without whom nothing would ever leave the ground. All armies, navies and air forces of the world equally welcome here.

Can Wigston survive the onslaught?

Thread Tools
 
Search this Thread
 
Old 20th Jul 2023, 09:27
  #541 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: Welwyn Garden City
Age: 63
Posts: 1,854
Received 77 Likes on 43 Posts
Originally Posted by downsizer
Having been on Ops right up till resettlement this year- you are talking sh1te. We have no problem delivering effect. Look at the super non-woke russian armed forces, is that a better model.

Probably worth you pondering as well, were it not for the super lefty woke air force your special grandaughter wouldn't be in the RAF Regiment as a weekend warrior!
Yes indeed, a good point sir, but there are a variety of factors to take into account, none of which excuse the comprehensive abandonment of presentation and behaviour. The Russians, glad you asked, have never had a good track record, contrary to popular public perception, in the field of arms. To address your point about their being a non-woke army, well they're up against a non-woke army with better weaponry, albeit supplied by the west. Now cast your mind back to December (I believe that was the month) 1939, the invasion of Finland, similar circumstances to now. They got their noses beat in. Stalin's actions are said to have encouraged Hitler to invade the USSR, this after he witnessed the paltry showing of the Red Army, by far and away the largest army, in Finland.

Indeed, a bucket full of blame is due to Stalin for the preceding purge years, when he lopped off the heads of the Commanders of the army because he feared their ability and likely political opposition. Now, if you want an example of an adept, neigh, extremely adept, extremely non-woke army. Look to the record of Hitler's Werhmacht, and their hated helpmeets of the Wafffen SS. And before you say it, yes they were without question crushed by the end of the war, but the road to that defeat has many factors involved, not all visible at first glance.

FB
Finningley Boy is offline  
Old 20th Jul 2023, 10:27
  #542 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: May 2006
Location: Around
Posts: 1,203
Received 117 Likes on 53 Posts
Originally Posted by Finningley Boy
To address your point about their being a non-woke army, well they're up against a non-woke army with better weaponry, albeit supplied by the west.
FB
Are the Ukrainians non woke? They seem to have no problem with women on the front line, lax grooming standards, tattoos on hands neck and face, mixed dress...
downsizer is offline  
Old 20th Jul 2023, 11:40
  #543 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: Welwyn Garden City
Age: 63
Posts: 1,854
Received 77 Likes on 43 Posts
Originally Posted by downsizer
Are the Ukrainians non woke? They seem to have no problem with women on the front line, lax grooming standards, tattoos on hands neck and face, mixed dress...
They're not in a situation to pick and choose certainly.

FB
Finningley Boy is offline  
Old 20th Jul 2023, 11:52
  #544 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: Welwyn Garden City
Age: 63
Posts: 1,854
Received 77 Likes on 43 Posts
Ukraine Struggling to Recruit Troops, Some Young Men Pay to Flee: WSJ (businessinsider.com)

Regarding the point about taking all they can get, it does rather give credability to the recuitment problem in the UK, if you look at the image I know its only a couple of soldiers in full head wear, but it doesn't lend the image readily of an army of blokes with Tattoos and cornrows. As for women in the Ukrainian forces, the Russians are the same, all armed forces apart from some Islamic countries allow women to serve on the frontline, this has been the case for a while. However, the Ukrainians were noted for sending women away as evacuees while the men stayed to fight the invasion. Another point raised by Peter Hitchen recently, we don't hear much about Ukrainian casualties, but there will be quite few. Yet its the Western nations and our leaders, as well as the press and public, who are getting fractious expecting a short war with an outcome along the lines of the recent campaigns in Iraq.

FB

FB
Finningley Boy is offline  
Old 20th Jul 2023, 15:10
  #545 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: Canada
Age: 63
Posts: 5,209
Received 134 Likes on 61 Posts
Originally Posted by Finningley Boy
They're not in a situation to pick and choose certainly.

FB
Or They don't give a flying Fu*k about how their troops look only how they fight, which despite having lots of examples of the things you despise, seems to be quite well
Big Pistons Forever is offline  
Old 20th Jul 2023, 15:25
  #546 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: Baston
Posts: 3,285
Received 712 Likes on 250 Posts
Originally Posted by downsizer
Having been on Ops right up till resettlement this year- you are talking sh1te. We have no problem delivering effect. Look at the super non-woke russian armed forces, is that a better model.

Probably worth you pondering as well, were it not for the super lefty woke air force your special grandaughter wouldn't be in the RAF Regiment as a weekend warrior!
Leaving aside abuse and ad hominem, said gdaughter not special, all 5 are graduate 2.1 or above, but she had a day at Coningsby age 17 that I arranged. She was sufficiently impressed by the smart, clean, wellbehaved young people who she saw and met to consider a commission.
This track came second best (covid did not help) hence the rocks, where all have to pass a common standard.
HERE IS THE QUESTION.
Are a goodly number of suitables of all colour and gender put off these days by what they see and hear about the Wiggy agenda? Does it help or hinder recruiting and retention?
langleybaston is offline  
Old 20th Jul 2023, 16:48
  #547 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: Welwyn Garden City
Age: 63
Posts: 1,854
Received 77 Likes on 43 Posts
Originally Posted by Big Pistons Forever
Or They don't give a flying Fu*k about how their troops look only how they fight, which despite having lots of examples of the things you despise, seems to be quite well
Indeed Sir, the more ponderous rules always take a back seat when circumstances determine so. Those defending the anything goes argument seem to be a tad more intemperate and revert to extremes being the only option, I've never said I despise anything, I knew many people in the RAF who had beards, all looked a credit just as in the Navy. I do think though allowing an anything goes approach is wrong. Saying things like don't give a flying Fu*k suggests that the more disconnected, individual and out of control the apppearance the better. Whereas, to you, adherence to any standards and bearing at all is a mark of incompetence.

FB
Finningley Boy is offline  
Old 20th Jul 2023, 16:53
  #548 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: Welwyn Garden City
Age: 63
Posts: 1,854
Received 77 Likes on 43 Posts
https://www.google.co.uk/search?q=uk...vhysiPUg%3A168

Click on the link above, it shows the Ukrainian Army on parade in 2021, celebrating 30 years of independence from the old Soviet Union.

I think my old pal Smiffy would be proud!
FB

Last edited by Finningley Boy; 20th Jul 2023 at 16:57. Reason: Update
Finningley Boy is offline  
Old 20th Jul 2023, 18:10
  #549 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jun 2000
Location: UK
Posts: 220
Received 178 Likes on 68 Posts
I believe that by forcing members of the armed forces to comply with seemingly trivial rules related to appearance and behaviour conditions them to comply with really unpleasant orders to carry out horrendous acts. Pressing the button for example. Shooting the survivors of a nuclear exchange. Nasty stuff.
bugged on the right is online now  
Old 20th Jul 2023, 20:00
  #550 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: The sky mainly
Posts: 352
Received 6 Likes on 5 Posts
Originally Posted by downsizer
Having been on Ops right up till resettlement this year- you are talking sh1te. We have no problem delivering effect.
Just out of curiosity, in the latest survey, were you one on the small minority who still had any confidence in the senior management?
Sky Sports is offline  
Old 20th Jul 2023, 21:59
  #551 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: lincs
Posts: 89
Received 86 Likes on 30 Posts
Originally Posted by bugged on the right
I believe that by forcing members of the armed forces to comply with seemingly trivial rules related to appearance and behaviour conditions them to comply with really unpleasant orders to carry out horrendous acts. Pressing the button for example. Shooting the survivors of a nuclear exchange. Nasty stuff.
I take it you've never been in the military then. Because you're talking absolute nonsense, orders are either legal or they're not. 'Shooting the survivors of a nuclear exchange ' what a load of rubbish.
cheekychimp is offline  
Old 21st Jul 2023, 07:07
  #552 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: May 2006
Location: Around
Posts: 1,203
Received 117 Likes on 53 Posts
Originally Posted by Sky Sports
Just out of curiosity, in the latest survey, were you one on the small minority who still had any confidence in the senior management?
Absolutely not - one of many reasons I left.

downsizer is offline  
The following users liked this post:
Old 21st Jul 2023, 07:58
  #553 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: not scotland
Posts: 359
Received 60 Likes on 28 Posts
Originally Posted by bugged on the right
I believe that by forcing members of the armed forces to comply with seemingly trivial rules related to appearance and behaviour conditions them to comply with really unpleasant orders to carry out horrendous acts. Pressing the button for example. Shooting the survivors of a nuclear exchange. Nasty stuff.
In my 37 years of Service, I’ve never heard of a policy concerning shooting survivors of a nuclear exchange. When I next do Op Law, LOAC and CBRN training I’ll ask the question….

I have worked for people covered in tattoos, long hair and unkempt appearance however, seeing as they were SF, I thought it best not to ask if they were woke.
Toadstool is offline  
Old 21st Jul 2023, 08:16
  #554 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: uk
Posts: 3,225
Received 172 Likes on 65 Posts
Originally Posted by Toadstool
In my 37 years of Service, I’ve never heard of a policy concerning shooting survivors of a nuclear exchange. When I next do Op Law, LOAC and CBRN training I’ll ask the question….
Never had to deal with that, but have certainly had to manage one related project where the Army's requirement included a capability to remotely kill their own troops. The greater good. I sat next to the Colonel charged with the job as he explained the details to me, my guess being there weren't many who would have liked to be in his shoes.
tucumseh is offline  
Old 21st Jul 2023, 18:41
  #555 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Feb 2011
Location: Great Britain
Age: 51
Posts: 340
Likes: 0
Received 11 Likes on 5 Posts
I see that Wokeston’s henchmen, as detailed in the NSI that appear to have given the illegal orders to Gp Capt Nicholl, feature in the latest Air Rank Appointment List. One is ‘retiring from the Service’, but the other, whilst they have not been promoted, have got another role. https://www.raf.mod.uk/our-organisat...-appointments/

It seems that Air Ranks can be found to knowingly give illegal orders, and oversee that they are carried out, but still keep their jobs. Does this set a precedent for Courts Martial to be overturned for lesser mortals that have also apparently broken the law? Yeah, I thought not.
Corporal Clott is offline  
Old 22nd Jul 2023, 09:14
  #556 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: Welwyn Garden City
Age: 63
Posts: 1,854
Received 77 Likes on 43 Posts
One thing I've noticed over the years, the Chiefs of Staff more likely to be publicly voluable tend to be found among the Navy and Army chiefs. The RAF ones have a habit of waiting until they are safely in retirement. Sir Michael Graydon recently appeared on GB News being interviewed by Nigel Farage in order to hammer his true colours to the mast. Good it was too. I've seen Sir Richard Johns being interviewed, in house so to speak, and he is no shrinking violet either. However, Mike Wigston, perhaps through his pursuit of shall we say, a modernising agenda, suddenly couldn't avoid the media, Kay Burley had him on the spot in the week leading up to the Queen's Funeral, at an outside broadcast unit just outside Buckingham Palace. He had to jump through hoops for Ms Burley.

FB
Finningley Boy is offline  
Old 22nd Jul 2023, 16:57
  #557 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: uk
Posts: 3,225
Received 172 Likes on 65 Posts
Originally Posted by Finningley Boy
Sir Michael Graydon recently appeared on GB News being interviewed by Nigel Farage in order to hammer his true colours to the mast.
FB
I'm afraid Graydon revealed his true colours while CAS, when lying to Malcolm Rifkind and MRAF Sir John Grandy over the Mull of Kintyre accident. Perhaps one day he'll share with us where they should have been, given they were apparently 'miles off course'.
tucumseh is offline  
The following 2 users liked this post by tucumseh:
Old 22nd Jul 2023, 17:49
  #558 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: Welwyn Garden City
Age: 63
Posts: 1,854
Received 77 Likes on 43 Posts
Originally Posted by tucumseh
I'm afraid Graydon revealed his true colours while CAS, when lying to Malcolm Rifkind and MRAF Sir John Grandy over the Mull of Kintyre accident. Perhaps one day he'll share with us where they should have been, given they were apparently 'miles off course'.
That's a fair point, I must confess I'm not aware of much of the tragedy other than that there was an attempt from on high to blame the crew of the Chinook.

FB

PS I didn't know Sir John Grandy was involved in the BOE, he'd have been long retired by 1994/5 and about 82.

Finningley Boy is offline  
Old 22nd Jul 2023, 18:36
  #559 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: May 2006
Location: A long way from home
Posts: 80
Likes: 0
Received 12 Likes on 1 Post
Standards

I have read this thread with interest. Cards on the table, I am 71, retired and served from 17 to 55 years old with a 3 year gap. So I no doubt fall into the category of an old fart, who knows nothing and is out of touch with the modern RAF's world.

I consider that an important word often neglected and that has sadly fallen into disuse is standards. I dont wear suits and rarely wear a tie (funerals only). However, I would not dream of going out with ripped jeans, a dirty shirt, or a t shirt with some profane slogan written on it. I pride myself on being smart casual. I dont swear in front of ladies, and often hold doors open for ladies and gentlemen. I always say thank you. I like to treat the ladies with respect and not in a sexist way. When I was in the Royal Air Force, my hair was neat and tidy (not necessarily short!), my uniform was presentable and appropriate to the task in hand. I was never overweight; taking pride in keeping myself fit. Most of those around me operated to the same standards. I always thought that I was a good representative for our Service.

When I hear of the RAF people with crazy hairstyles, visible tattoos and other signs of being outrageous, I think that they do so to shock. What will we have next? People in ripped uniform trousers, dining in or ladies guest nights in civvies with no bow tie. People who look a mess give the impression of low standards, who could not care less that they are a poor example of a Service which has always prided itself on being a disciplined organisation, capable of maintaining that discipline in times of trouble. I am afraid that the recent hierarchy have encouraged those standards to slip. Hopefully the new CAS will reintroduce some of the standards that we have let slip, without going overboard. If people want to take part in pride marches or other similar events, let them do so, but not in uniform. I was always taught that uniform was not fancy dress, and could not be worn for marches and political rallies.

I have seen some of the more respected members of this forum being pilloried for trying to send a message that things have gone too far. Langley Baston is a gentlemen who I would love to meet and discuss standards with over a pint of beer. The fact that his views are robustly (or rudely), challenged tells me more about the complainers than about LBs views. If you cant accept the alternate views of others, your arguments lack substance

I will no doubt attract a lot of abuse for this post, but these are my views

Shadwell
Shadwell the old is offline  
The following 12 users liked this post by Shadwell the old:
Old 22nd Jul 2023, 18:49
  #560 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Mar 2001
Posts: 1,058
Received 24 Likes on 11 Posts
Much of the tragedy -

...
Dear Finningley Boy

Given your significant number of learned posts and your service time, I am mildly surprised to read that -

I must confess I'm not aware of much of the tragedy other than that there was an attempt from on high to blame the crew of the Chinook.
May I recommend a bit of light hearted technical reading by noted expert author David Hill, to bring you up to speed on this particular MoD scandal ?

1. "Their Greatest Disgrace - The campaign to clear the Chinook ZD576 pilots."

2. "The Inconvenient Truth - Chinook ZD576 - Cause and culpability." (with John Blakeley)

They're both instantly available in Kindle format for very few shekels, which all goes to charity.

I suspect the late Sir John Grandy (1913 - 2004) may have weighed in for his old mates without having much of a clue about the event, and far too soon to be aware of the eventual exposure and admission of the institutional lying and airworthiness cheating by MoD etc, as described in the two books mentioned above - and in other similar current and on-going exposes (including police investigation) such as 'Red 5' and 'A Noble Anger'

Kind regards, LFH .
...
,,,
....
..




Lordflasheart is offline  


Contact Us - Archive - Advertising - Cookie Policy - Privacy Statement - Terms of Service

Copyright © 2024 MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands. All rights reserved. Use of this site indicates your consent to the Terms of Use.