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Sweden Says Russian Planes that violated Swedish Airspace had nuclear weapons

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Sweden Says Russian Planes that violated Swedish Airspace had nuclear weapons

Old 1st Apr 2022, 13:28
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Originally Posted by CargoOne View Post
ps you are forgetting Su24s were not alone but covered by Su27s, so a pair of Grippens might have disappeared from the radar if russkies intention would have been different.
You seem to consider those Swedes quite stupid, eh? Got an Axe to grind?
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Old 1st Apr 2022, 13:41
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Originally Posted by CargoOne View Post

ps you are forgetting Su24s were not alone but covered by Su27s, so a pair of Grippens might have disappeared from the radar if russkies intention would have been different.
The russkies stumbled themselves across SWE AF and FIN AF and NAVY joint exercises. Which means that there were a lot more than two Gripens hanging around. I would've placed my bets on the defenders as there were plenty, and they saw what the sukhois were carrying around.
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Old 1st Apr 2022, 14:56
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Are we thinking what was observed an ALCM or freefall weapon (or "shape" thereof) on the SU-24's?
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Old 1st Apr 2022, 15:10
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I imagine that diplomatic channels will have been used to tell Russia in no uncertain terms that it they pull a stunt like that again the intruders will be shot down.
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Old 1st Apr 2022, 15:39
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Originally Posted by Video Mixdown View Post
I imagine that diplomatic channels will have been used to tell Russia in no uncertain terms that it they pull a stunt like that again the intruders will be shot down.
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I don't think so, it's far too definite , and also far too extreme. Generally diplomatic steps - and all significant manner-changes between nations - are taken in an agreed manner/speed so that you don't precipitate some major action that you don't want because you take your neighbour by surprise. I don't know how many steps there are on that particular scale, but supposed nuclear weapons may have raised it one.
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Old 1st Apr 2022, 17:12
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Originally Posted by Tartiflette Fan View Post
0

I don't think so, it's far too definite , and also far too extreme. Generally diplomatic steps - and all significant manner-changes between nations - are taken in an agreed manner/speed so that you don't precipitate some major action that you don't want because you take your neighbour by surprise. I don't know how many steps there are on that particular scale, but supposed nuclear weapons may have raised it one.
Yeah, if it's bad they can ask the ambassador to come and have a chat. If it's more bad they can ask x number of embassy staff to leave the country, but then the other country usually does the same, so in the end the aggressor, at least from where i am sitting look like they are getting away with it...
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Old 1st Apr 2022, 18:40
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Originally Posted by Tartiflette Fan View Post
0

I don't think so, it's far too definite , and also far too extreme. Generally diplomatic steps - and all significant manner-changes between nations - are taken in an agreed manner/speed so that you don't precipitate some major action that you don't want because you take your neighbour by surprise. I don't know how many steps there are on that particular scale, but supposed nuclear weapons may have raised it one.
You clearly think that you can trust what the Russians say. I do not - we are dealing with barbarians and a bit of definite black and white clarity is called for.
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Old 1st Apr 2022, 22:15
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Originally Posted by Video Mixdown View Post
You clearly think that you can trust what the Russians say. I do not r.
For many decades the Russians have made a big thing about fulfilling explicitly all types of international accord - particularly financial - so this is completely different. My opinion is that Putin is off his head, but that is not likely to help anybody's view of the war.

I think we are dealing with a "then" and "now " scenario. NATO has not failed as far as its treaties go ( explain if you feel differently ) and now needs to re-supply some of its eastern defences.
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Old 1st Apr 2022, 22:24
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[QUOTE=Tartiflette Fan;11209189]0

Generally diplomatic steps - and all significant manner-changes between nations - are taken in an agreed manner/speed so that you don't precipitate some major action that you don't want because you take your neighbour by surprise.

You've not met Liz Truss then?
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Old 2nd Apr 2022, 01:50
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take the WE.177 as an example

The load exercises I did with a supposed 'inert' weapon looked like that white one at the top of your illustration ....
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Old 2nd Apr 2022, 02:08
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Originally Posted by CargoOne View Post
Is there any good reason why Swedish AF did not shot them down?
No need to shoot them down. Do the standard intercept, they go away and join NATO with Finland. He is just trying to scare the west. Stand up and stop cowering.
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Old 2nd Apr 2022, 04:07
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Well - we might never know - but some stand by their assessment that the SU-24s were carrying. One wonders whether people are saying "no" to avoid a more harsh reality.

https://www.reddit.com/r/ukraine/com..._that_russian/

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Old 2nd Apr 2022, 08:40
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Originally Posted by reynoldsno1 View Post
take the WE.177 as an example

The load exercises I did with a supposed 'inert' weapon looked like that white one at the top of your illustration ....
As did the the things on the Jaguars on QRA at Brüggen in 77/78.
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Old 2nd Apr 2022, 08:53
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reynoldsno1 and k3k3, very interesting, as timelord wrote above that the inerts he had on board were without the yellow and orange stripes. Did you really handle inerts with the stripes? I know this is a bit of a thread drift but very interesting nevertheless as I would've thought the worrysome event of a mistake if all of them look a like. How did anyone then make the difference in between the real deal and a dummy?
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Old 2nd Apr 2022, 09:10
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Military diplomacy - never make a threat you aren’t prepared to carry out?

Even Putin hasn’t made that mistake yet, as far as I can see.
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Old 2nd Apr 2022, 09:14
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Originally Posted by Beamr View Post
reynoldsno1 and k3k3, very interesting, as timelord wrote above that the inerts he had on board were without the yellow and orange stripes. Did you really handle inerts with the stripes? I know this is a bit of a thread drift but very interesting nevertheless as I would've thought the worrysome event of a mistake if all of them look a like. How did anyone then make the difference in between the real deal and a dummy?
The QRA Jaguars will have had real weapons loaded. I heard that real ones were sometimes used for load training,
( although I never saw it) but NOT flown
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Old 2nd Apr 2022, 09:19
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Originally Posted by Timelord View Post
The QRA Jaguars will have had real weapons loaded. I heard that real ones were sometimes used for load training,
( although I never saw it) but NOT flown
thank you, that explains the situation. I appreciate your contribution.
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Old 2nd Apr 2022, 10:02
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Originally Posted by WillFlyForCheese View Post
Well - we might never know - but some stand by their assessment that the SU-24s were carrying. One wonders whether people are saying "no" to avoid a more harsh reality.
https://www.reddit.com/r/ukraine/com..._that_russian/
Honestly, ignore the tabloids, just stand calm, firm and clear. Don't let them intimidate you and at the same don't do stupid, irrational things.
When 'unfriendly' aircraft are entering your airspace, intercept them and accompany them out of the air space. They don't comply? Give a warning shot. They still don't comply? Shoot them down.
Best practice in NATO since 70 Years+.
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Old 2nd Apr 2022, 11:03
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Originally Posted by CargoOne View Post
Why do they need to have an airforce then? Just make an aviation club - it is much cheaper for taxpayers. Intentional airspace violation with our without nuclear weapons shall be punished. Ask Turkish AF about the story with russian jetfighter.
So, You’re not a Diplomat….any more?

India sent a ballistic missile into Pakistan by misstake recently. Good to see the diplomaticy solv it instead of weapons.


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Old 2nd Apr 2022, 11:25
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Originally Posted by AAKEE View Post
So, You’re not a Diplomat….any more?

India sent a ballistic missile into Pakistan by misstake recently. Good to see the diplomaticy solv it instead of weapons.
Most of a times it is easy to distinguish mistake vs intentional. NATO and its citizens shall wake up and understand what was good for the last 70 years doesn’t work anymore. Simply because the Soviet government was bad but usually shown a responsible behaviour when it was coming to the question of nuclear weapons. That is not the case any longer, we are facing a crazy dictator who is turning his country into a big and (somwhat)capable North Korea. We shall stop sending diplo notes every week let alone giving him a phone calls. Just shoot the bastards down when they come.
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