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Alleged UFO or UAP, 1990, Calvine, Scotland

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Alleged UFO or UAP, 1990, Calvine, Scotland

Old 2nd Mar 2022, 22:34
  #121 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by ShyTorque View Post
After 40 years?
Nah... I thought the person excluded it being the SR-71 and thus I asked whether that was the thing as similar conversation may took place but gauging by your response, it didn't
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Old 2nd Mar 2022, 22:42
  #122 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by NickB View Post
Sorry, late to the party here, but if the aircraft was a Hunter, nobody has mentioned FRADU Hunters from Yeovilton (that I’ve seen in this thread). I’ve definitely seen these fly at weekends during exercises. Probably not important, but just thought I’d throw it into the mix!
Good point. Were they still operating Hunters then? FRADU and their successors did indeed fly at weekends during JMC exercises, and sometimes out of Lossiemouth but almost exclusively over the sea.
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Old 3rd Mar 2022, 01:32
  #123 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by NickB View Post
Sorry, late to the party here, but if the aircraft was a Hunter, nobody has mentioned FRADU Hunters from Yeovilton (that I’ve seen in this thread). I’ve definitely seen these fly at weekends during exercises. Probably not important, but just thought I’d throw it into the mix!
Gawd that dates me; when I first started training at the College of ATC at Hurn, FRADU were still flying Scimitars!!
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Old 3rd Mar 2022, 08:30
  #124 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Timelord View Post
Good point. Were they still operating Hunters then? FRADU and their successors did indeed fly at weekends during JMC exercises, and sometimes out of Lossiemouth but almost exclusively over the sea.
Indeed they were, right up to 1995.

Wish I could have seen those Scimitars flying - I know they weren't that successful, but what an aircraft...
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Old 3rd Mar 2022, 13:36
  #125 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by NickB View Post
Indeed they were, right up to 1995.

Wish I could have seen those Scimitars flying - I know they weren't that successful, but what an aircraft...

Our American cousins were apparently amazed that we could produce a twin-engined fighter and keep it sub-sonic!

Mog
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Old 3rd Mar 2022, 14:20
  #126 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Timelord View Post
Good point. Were they still operating Hunters then? FRADU and their successors did indeed fly at weekends during JMC exercises, and sometimes out of Lossiemouth but almost exclusively over the sea.
Has it not been established by "senior RAF" people the ac in question are Harriers? Sure looks like on in the picture.
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Old 3rd Mar 2022, 15:26
  #127 (permalink)  
 
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Ninthace, the mocked up picture on this thread is a Harrier but as I said earlier my first impression on seeing the original was Hunter. You are correct though, Mathew has stated that RAF analysis of the original did apparently say Harrier.
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Old 3rd Mar 2022, 16:13
  #128 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Mogwi View Post
Our American cousins were apparently amazed that we could produce a twin-engined fighter and keep it sub-sonic!

Mog
I think it was something to do with the thickness of the wing cord? You'll probably know more about that than me, but that aside, they were dangerous times flying FJs from a carrier in the 60s...not sure the losses would be acceptable today...
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Old 5th Mar 2022, 23:15
  #129 (permalink)  
 
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Hunting the fastmovers - fastmoving unknowns over UK skies!

Hi,

I'm aviation enthusiast especially in the military matter. I'm really curious about SAP's and special access programs of the past as well as current ones.

Through many years I was able to collect many sighting reports which are pretty interesting to me as they give some light on the subject.

Mentioned below is a thread authored by some other poster a few years back and I'm re-approaching it again.

In the beginning of 2011, a group of aviation enthusiast from England(and possibly from other places too) came with interesting topic on MilitaryPhotos forum. There was a specific member "2495" that led all the discussion. Howewer, soon afterwards he disappeared from the scene. Group from England had one aim - to disocver the fastmover that roves through UK airspace by the decades. They've spent over 14 years on watching and making conclusions and finally they decided to show results of their work.

Their thread called "Hunting the Fast Movers" included photos of supposed fastmover(s) that were roaring through the UK airspace. The file included 6 pics. Unfortunatelly, OP post was deleted later.

Here is original "2495" post that I've found using Internet archive.

--- --- --- --- ---

First a point I'd like to make – very important point actually. At no time has any serving member of the UK (or any other nations) Armed Forces spoken to, engaged in, or in any way assisted us on our project. It has been done exclusively by civilians who have acted within the laws of the United Kingdom at all times – this includes remaining on public land / waters for all excursions. (Please note also that the photos clearly are not the originals nor high resolution and the hi res will never become available either. Reason being that this wasn't an exercise based in malice / monetary gain in any way shape or form).

The second point I'd like to draw to peoples attention is that for many decades it has been proven beyond all doubt that the CIA, NSA, NRO and all other agencies protect their SAP (Special Access Projects) behind a wall of obfuscation and deceit, and since the 'U-2' and A-12 (later to become SR-71) they have used the field of ufology as an effective counter intelligence firewall. The murkier the better as far as these agencies are concerned, and for us it is a validation of the fact that this area is a very valid research tool if you are selective about the materials you gather.

It was after years (literal years) of sifting, sieving, discarding, interviewing and traveling to follow the most promising leads we got a focus target area. This was the 'Black Triangles' mystery – and what a can of worms. There is enough material in that alone to chase a potential 8 in test / operational vehicles of varying forms / uses. However the work served a purpose and funneled us downwards to the core of what we wanted to investigate. I am sure many are familiar with the topic.

What appeared after a time was a very resounding pattern.

Cornwall – Mysterious sonic booms shaking windows and high altitude lights heading towards Wales.

Wales – high altitude black triangles rushing over head with a single strobing red light light on the underside. North Wales sightings were of particular clarity.

Scotland. The cluster of sightings and audio reports from here was astounding in detail, witness integrity and sheer numbers. Reports ranged from 'Space shuttles with snubbed noses' , 'Massive 'S' shaped curves being carved in the skies', night time 'express trains' roaring through the air and the sudden rash of 'Low level Tornado flights deep in the night along side a deeper more rumbling engine sound heading East'. Girvan, Stranraer, they all started to trickle in reports. Oh one snippet from a report of interest from 2008 - “If a C-17 goes low westward in the day time over Girvan wheels down, its an absolute100% caste iron guarantee of a night time rumbling roaring sound”. We are not sure why this is so urgent unless its bringing in fuel / fresh crews or other needed items for the mission but it actually did assist us some what.

Pattern became clear enough – It comes in high, very high over Cornwall, gets lower over wales and hits Scotland at altitudes low enough to be visible. We decided we should start to organize a hill walking holiday.

Then the tragic events of 9-11 in New York and the Global War On Terror. Fast Black triangles and air quakes didn't just hit the UK any longer – they moved down the eastern coast of the UK and started to creep across Europe, into eastern Europe and aimed right at the middle east.

Eye witnesses from the North Sea into Europe once again reported an extreme fast ' black arrow head with a single red light' and the characteristic shaking windows. Further into Europe it again became a single extreme speed pulsing red light and no noise. Climbs to altitude and races off is our boys signature and we knew it had in all probability gone from test article / dust off research craft to fully pressed into use – but we had no concrete sightings in the ME or Afghanistan.

Then pay dirt dropped into our laps.
First the grape vine started to rumble with rumors of a very unusual airframe making sporadic stops in Afghanistan.

What ever this was it came in with zero engine noise onto a blacked out runway – just a rush of air and thumping heavy landing. On take off it sounded like a 'B-1b with an attitude problem' – again though when it lifted off it was on an all blacked out runway.

Then a Civilian in Afghanistan was taking photos of the stars in long exposure, and there it was – the single fading in and out red light crossing the skies. Taking the exposure length we knew it then.

If it was a test article, it was now operational and we knew for certain why the black triangle low level sightings had it as silent; it is, but only when landing approach is being made.

Hope you like the montage. Yes the engines are mounted above the wings, yes the hull is a flattened shallow 'V', and it indeed has a single tail not a pair unlike the SR-71. (The pictures are free to share / use but please remember they are low res for a very valid reason – the underside thermal protection system and hull shape is unique and we agreed that for the time being is should stay under wraps. We were not looking to damage any assets, just to find them).

The picture on the top left shows the shovel nose to perfection and the top right is one of the rarer out at sea 'Space shuttle like' 's' curves and airframe re-entry like flight profile. These really were baffling and the last reported sighting was yesterday evening (28th Feb. 2011).#1

Is it loud? Ungodly bastards yes it is. Is it fast? Jaw dropping acceleration into the night sky. Does it land in silence? Yes it does.

I saved the best till last.

It might have two of the biggest loudest jet engines I have ever heard that fling it skywards, but theres a third engine on board – the ear splitting roar? Its a rocket engine. Yes you read that right – the airframe climbs into the dark sky and away, then a sudden 'pop – rolling boom followed by a deep bass rumbling' and the bright exhaust signature Sprints into the night.

If you do hunt it, take a stop watch. The numbers are beautiful.

Thats all folks – a twin seat manned high speed aircraft getting lots of use – airframe numbers are low, 6 at the very most from sighting frequency / locations but they getting lots of air time. If you think all this is pie in the skies?


Beside it, there are other reports, too. I'll quote some that are publicly available on the net:

" After reading all the reports I can add to this, in august 2003 over lowestoft I was watching some f15s dogfighting early evening and a second and third flight coming over later in the evening. Just after 11:00 there was a tanker and another large jet which I could not tell what it was, only 2 engines, come in over the coast and an hour later another tanker and with it was 2 f15s trailling on either side. There was a jet just trailling the tanker slightly in front on the f15s with no nav lights, strange shape to it, a distinctive sound which was hard to tell giving the number of jets up there. Shortly after a C5 came over all on the same flight path. It was a very clear night no moon. I travelled up to the hall and the heath the next day and there was a C5 at hall parked with its tail towards the sheds where the ospreys are based. I was talking to a gentleman at the fence and he made some comments that it was a strange night at lakenheath and that the C5 had been in there and then came over to the hall. Also that lakenheath had some strange activity the night before.. I went up the next night and a few spotters where there but no planes!"

"Early 2000's.A good friend of mine Bill was staying on his boat south of Norwich.About 10pm he was watching F15's perform through his binoculars against a starry sky.A couple of tankers headed home as well.A bit later on hearing more F15's he saw two heading inland with a large, almost tanker sized plane behind them, no lights on it but clearly a triangular shape against the sky."


If anyone therefore has any relevant information on this matter, I would be very grateful to hear from you.

If anyone has similar sightings and would like to share them feel free to do so and/or just PM me.


Thank you.



Last edited by SpeedFanatic; 5th Mar 2022 at 23:28. Reason: More info to original post
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Old 5th Mar 2022, 23:41
  #130 (permalink)  
 
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Don't have any relevant information about it but way back then I was a member at MP.net and remember the thread well. The bit you have posted above would of been the original posting that later was lost when the forum had a fatal meltdown and the backups didn't work.
The thread was restarted once the forum came back online, before going totally dead after the forum owner was forced to shut due to repeat copyright infringements being tossed at him. I do have the last few months of posts saved as .pdf files but don't think they contain anything of any importance other than the moment 2495 went MIA.
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Old 6th Mar 2022, 06:20
  #131 (permalink)  
 
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Looks like a mash up including some shots of a possible D 21 ( or representation thereof) in post 129...
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Old 6th Mar 2022, 09:32
  #132 (permalink)  
 
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Looks like X-43A

BBC NEWS | Science/Nature | Jet speed record attempt delayed







Last edited by Lima Juliet; 6th Mar 2022 at 10:19.
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Old 6th Mar 2022, 12:06
  #133 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by SnowFella View Post
Don't have any relevant information about it but way back then I was a member at MP.net and remember the thread well. The bit you have posted above would of been the original posting that later was lost when the forum had a fatal meltdown and the backups didn't work.
The thread was restarted once the forum came back online, before going totally dead after the forum owner was forced to shut due to repeat copyright infringements being tossed at him. I do have the last few months of posts saved as .pdf files but don't think they contain anything of any importance other than the moment 2495 went MIA.
I was able to brought back the original thread by Wayback Machine and there was one member who saved it all as a PDF file with dates and any other information. The File also included the final post left by 2495 where he stated he would come back in September same year but actually it never happened. Is it the PDF file you are referring to?
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Old 6th Mar 2022, 20:34
  #134 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by SpeedFanatic View Post
I was able to brought back the original thread by Wayback Machine and there was one member who saved it all as a PDF file with dates and any other information. The File also included the final post left by 2495 where he stated he would come back in September same year but actually it never happened. Is it the PDF file you are referring to?
Yep, that's likely the same file. I got access to them, it's 4 files in all, just a month or so ago through an MP.net facebook group.
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Old 16th Mar 2022, 20:16
  #135 (permalink)  
 
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Apologies for coming to this fascinating thread late and for any answers that I may have missed, but (given that the photo in post #19 is clearly a Harrier), could it/they have been Jaguars? The estimable British Aviation Review tells me that on 4th August 1990 2 x Jaguar GR1As visited Newcastle, callsigns Wildcat 1&2. I believe Wildcat was a 226 OCU callsign at the time, which would mean they were likely to have come from Lossiemouth, and Calvine is certainly in the frame for a route from Lossie to Newcastle, especially at low level.
At another level, as a regular traveller on the A9 at that time, frequently at weekends, I cannot believe that the scenario was not witnessed and reported by many other people. Even just the presence of a couple of Harriers/Jaguars/whatever at low level on a Saturday night would be bound to lead to some complaints. So my suspicion is this is all boilleaux. But perhaps there are some ex-226 OCU folks out there who may have some memories of a rare weekend trip to Newcastle?
NS
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Old 17th Mar 2022, 08:59
  #136 (permalink)  
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Originally Posted by NorthSouth View Post
Apologies for coming to this fascinating thread late and for any answers that I may have missed, but (given that the photo in post #19 is clearly a Harrier), could it/they have been Jaguars? The estimable British Aviation Review tells me that on 4th August 1990 2 x Jaguar GR1As visited Newcastle, callsigns Wildcat 1&2. I believe Wildcat was a 226 OCU callsign at the time, which would mean they were likely to have come from Lossiemouth, and Calvine is certainly in the frame for a route from Lossie to Newcastle, especially at low level.
At another level, as a regular traveller on the A9 at that time, frequently at weekends, I cannot believe that the scenario was not witnessed and reported by many other people. Even just the presence of a couple of Harriers/Jaguars/whatever at low level on a Saturday night would be bound to lead to some complaints. So my suspicion is this is all boilleaux. But perhaps there are some ex-226 OCU folks out there who may have some memories of a rare weekend trip to Newcastle?
NS
Thanks for replying, NorthSouth.

The image in #19 is actually a mock-up created, we understand, by Nick Pope and a Channel 5 computer artist. It reflects Mr Pope's best recollections abut the "real" photos that he saw of the alleged Calvine diamond and its chase aircraft while he was working in Sec(AS)2a.

Is there an online source for the British Aviation Review about the 2 x Jaguar GR1As on 4th August 1990, or, if it's from a magazine, would you be able to post/email a photo at all, please?

Thank you.
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Old 17th Mar 2022, 10:47
  #137 (permalink)  
 
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"Mr Pope's best recollections abut the "real" photos that he saw of the alleged Calvine diamond and its chase aircraft while he was working in Sec(AS)2a."
Well that says it all

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Old 17th Mar 2022, 12:52
  #138 (permalink)  
 
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Photo of the relevant page. Looking at it now I'm not sure where I got the info on the callsigns but you'll see from the right hand page that they were both deployed to take part in the River Wear Festival Air Day the following day.
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Old 17th Mar 2022, 13:57
  #139 (permalink)  
 
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I was shown the “real” photo. Certain it wasn’t a Jaguar.
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Old 19th Mar 2022, 12:46
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Originally Posted by Milarity View Post
From post 86:
"(b) how quickly could it be done, for those in the know to call up RAF ATC and say, "If you see a blip or 3 near Calvine, just ignore them, OK? Don't launch QRA."
Theoretically, very easy to achieve. QRA required the duty officer to authorize launch. If that officer was prebriefed on planned unusual flying activity, they would be able to tie reports of something unusual that would ordinarily require investigation with the prebriefed activity, and hold any launch. Of course, the surveillance officers that had reported the unusual activity would have to be told that said activity was nothing to worry about.. Always a give away that something classified was happening. My personal favourite explanation from the duty controller was that the Mach 2 track at 40k was a harrier on an engine test. Funnily enough, same part of the world and similar timeframe to this incident.
M2.0 Harrier? Really?
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