Russia - Military Strength vs Expenditure. How do they do it?
Avoid imitations
Join Date: Nov 2000
Location: Wandering the FIR and cyberspace often at highly unsociable times
Posts: 14,579
Received 435 Likes
on
229 Posts
I bet we do better financially in the UK than our Russian counterparts on the wage front.
The hundreds of thousands of military veterans drawing a pension all need to be paid for as well.
So, if you’re retired and you are wondering what you can do to help our poor, beleaguered military just hand your pension back. Take one for the team.
BV
The hundreds of thousands of military veterans drawing a pension all need to be paid for as well.
So, if you’re retired and you are wondering what you can do to help our poor, beleaguered military just hand your pension back. Take one for the team.
BV
Shytorque
But I’d be needed to win the war. I’m not going to do that for free. No bucks, no Buck Rogers.
I can just imagine the Ruskies quaking in their boots at the sight of me and my Hawk. I’ll destroy them with my (simulated) AMRAAMs.
BV
I can just imagine the Ruskies quaking in their boots at the sight of me and my Hawk. I’ll destroy them with my (simulated) AMRAAMs.
BV
And they weren't that good to begin with. In 1991 fulcrum was supposed to be top notch, but it was nearly twice as expensive as viper or hornet but only half as good.
Russia has a big army and lots of resources which means that it shouldn't be underestimated. But it should not be overestimated either.
Having seen Russian ships - including walking around them - a lot of it is smoke and mirrors. Missile launchers painted shut, radars seized up etc etc
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: Often in Jersey, but mainly in the past.
Age: 79
Posts: 7,816
Received 141 Likes
on
65 Posts
I concur full with you both. However, we shall see ... my crystal ball is foggy these days.
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Hanging off the end of a thread
Posts: 33,076
Received 2,942 Likes
on
1,253 Posts
I would also imagine they get back to basics and their armour or trucks are not dependant on computers to control the suspension, drive, engine emissions etc etc etc, they will be field repairable with the basics of equipment neither requiring a laptop nor a supply chain stretching halfway across the world to ship the thrungbucket solenoid computer interface module to let the handbrake off.
Join Date: Nov 2019
Location: Scotland
Posts: 129
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
20 secs with Google
Most of the above points are covered. Knock youselves out
https://www.sipri.org/commentary/top...sked-questions
Most of the above points are covered. Knock youselves out
https://www.sipri.org/commentary/top...sked-questions
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: Often in Jersey, but mainly in the past.
Age: 79
Posts: 7,816
Received 141 Likes
on
65 Posts
So, in random order …
1. Maskirovka, deploying numerous 3rd line armour/vehicles from storage to the Border, bereft of ammunition and trained crew, to pose a threat. While burning US/NATO cash/resources in response. Achieves animosity for no benefit.
2. Overt preparation for Invasion. Not subtle, but a clear expression of perceived capability. Risk of Western response, but unlikely to generate all-out warfare. Vlad got away with Crimea, try again?
3. Diplomatic leverage. The everlasting Russian fear of non-aligned or non-subservient states/NATO on its Borders. Political manoeuvre by Vlad the Great to seal his legacy with the people? Is this an internal or external ploy by Vlad?
I am not placing any bets on the outcome, but with the insanity of Belarus lurking to the north I could visualise Vlad giving it a low-level attempt. Reports are suggesting covert RU forces are already in Ukraine. Look at the map from Vlad’s POV.
1. Maskirovka, deploying numerous 3rd line armour/vehicles from storage to the Border, bereft of ammunition and trained crew, to pose a threat. While burning US/NATO cash/resources in response. Achieves animosity for no benefit.
2. Overt preparation for Invasion. Not subtle, but a clear expression of perceived capability. Risk of Western response, but unlikely to generate all-out warfare. Vlad got away with Crimea, try again?
3. Diplomatic leverage. The everlasting Russian fear of non-aligned or non-subservient states/NATO on its Borders. Political manoeuvre by Vlad the Great to seal his legacy with the people? Is this an internal or external ploy by Vlad?
I am not placing any bets on the outcome, but with the insanity of Belarus lurking to the north I could visualise Vlad giving it a low-level attempt. Reports are suggesting covert RU forces are already in Ukraine. Look at the map from Vlad’s POV.
Avoid imitations
Join Date: Nov 2000
Location: Wandering the FIR and cyberspace often at highly unsociable times
Posts: 14,579
Received 435 Likes
on
229 Posts
Mrs. Putin, just before setting off to her promised new holiday apartment in the Ukraine:
"Did you remember to turn the gas off?"
Putin: "Yes dear - ALL of it!"
"Did you remember to turn the gas off?"
Putin: "Yes dear - ALL of it!"
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Hanging off the end of a thread
Posts: 33,076
Received 2,942 Likes
on
1,253 Posts
Better stop knocking down Bruggen’s HAS. and ask fit Gut and Rhein D back
Join Date: Sep 2020
Location: Paphos, 8101
Posts: 43
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Less Onion Layers
I guess the Russians can do so much more because they don’t have 6 or more layers per fighting person.
High Wycombe is a disgusting mash of self fulfilling bottom feeders in job creation overdrive. Suits you!
High Wycombe is a disgusting mash of self fulfilling bottom feeders in job creation overdrive. Suits you!
Just imagine how much more of a threat they would have been or would be today if not for Stalin's purges. The best military leaders, many of their best scientists and millions of potential future engineers, leaders, scientists etc all wiped out. Interesting to ponder.
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Earth
Posts: 214
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I have no doubt a lot of RU kit is old. It was/is also robust, easy to maintain and likely perfectly serviceable. Just like the AK47/AK74, they all work. And they have vast numbers of them. And the unskilled conscripts to operate them.
Now talk about a target-rich environment of RU materiel and personnel in a conflict. Assuming only conventional munitions, how long before the West simply runs out of ammunition? One smart munition per tank?
Realistically, I see the only resolution through diplomacy. And Vlad holds nearly all the cards, if Europe still wants its Gas supplies. Same with China, if you want consumer electronics etc. The West doesn’t have the leverage with the Communist States any more … we have sold out long ago.
Now talk about a target-rich environment of RU materiel and personnel in a conflict. Assuming only conventional munitions, how long before the West simply runs out of ammunition? One smart munition per tank?
Realistically, I see the only resolution through diplomacy. And Vlad holds nearly all the cards, if Europe still wants its Gas supplies. Same with China, if you want consumer electronics etc. The West doesn’t have the leverage with the Communist States any more … we have sold out long ago.
Thread Starter
They may all look the same and share the same design principles but they have upgraded. The AK-47 was in use from 1949 to 1974 chambering 7.62x39mm. From 1974 to 1991, they used the AK-74 chambering a smaller 5.45x39mm round. Since 1991, they have been using a modernised version designated the AK-74M (same ammo).
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Hanging off the end of a thread
Posts: 33,076
Received 2,942 Likes
on
1,253 Posts
They may all look the same and share the same design principles but they have upgraded. The AK-47 was in use from 1949 to 1974 chambering 7.62x39mm. From 1974 to 1991, they used the AK-74 chambering a smaller 5.45x39mm round. Since 1991, they have been using a modernised version designated the AK-74M (same ammo).
One Weapon that did evolve was the .303 Bren that was rechambered as a 7.62 LMG.
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Hanging off the end of a thread
Posts: 33,076
Received 2,942 Likes
on
1,253 Posts
They may all look the same and share the same design principles but they have upgraded. The AK-47 was in use from 1949 to 1974 chambering 7.62x39mm. From 1974 to 1991, they used the AK-74 chambering a smaller 5.45x39mm round. Since 1991, they have been using a modernised version designated the AK-74M (same ammo).
Where as we jumped from the .303 Lee Enfield to the 7.62 SLR to the 5.56 SA80 after the stillborn Bullpup, and now are looking at a variant of the 5.56 M4 for part of our forces. It’s a shame we never developed the SLR on as it was a superb weapon with an effective range. Something the SA80 proved to lack thus having to introduce a 7.62 L129A1 to recoup that loss.
One Weapon that did evolve was the .303 Bren that was rechambered as a 7.62 LMG.
One weapon in our arsenal apart from the .50 cal that can trace its lineage back to 1934 and the German MG34 through the MG42 is the 7.62 GPMG
Yes.
*chuckle*
Originally Posted by ShyTorque
Mrs. Putin, just before setting off to her promised new holiday apartment in the Ukraine:
"Did you remember to turn the gas off?"
Putin: "Yes dear - ALL of it!"
"Did you remember to turn the gas off?"
Putin: "Yes dear - ALL of it!"
Last edited by Lonewolf_50; 25th Jan 2022 at 21:44.