Go Back  PPRuNe Forums > Aircrew Forums > Military Aviation
Reload this Page >

Russia - Military Strength vs Expenditure. How do they do it?

Military Aviation A forum for the professionals who fly military hardware. Also for the backroom boys and girls who support the flying and maintain the equipment, and without whom nothing would ever leave the ground. All armies, navies and air forces of the world equally welcome here.

Russia - Military Strength vs Expenditure. How do they do it?

Old 6th Mar 2022, 19:48
  #101 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Europe
Posts: 135
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Did anyone hear of Vitek? Or did he/she got arrested while demonstrating against the war?
fab777 is offline  
Old 6th Mar 2022, 21:10
  #102 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Texas
Age: 64
Posts: 7,130
Received 318 Likes on 204 Posts
It appears to me that the prize Putin is seeking in the south is Mariupol. City with heavy industry and shipyard/ship repair infrastructure.
If that is taken, the subsequent completion of a land bridge, if you will, from Mother Russia to Crimea might be accomplished which would probably achieve some of Putin's goals.
Taking Kiev and installing a more pliant government there would be a "great if we can manage it" goal, but may not be a "have to have" goal.
Or maybe he's decided "all or nothing" and I miss my guess.

In either case, if you can't keep the wheels and tracks rolling, you can't achieve your objectives.
What was it Rommel said about war: "Amateurs talk about strategy and tactics, professionals talk about logistics" (Or words to that effect)
Maintenance and upkeep, and spare parts, fit into logistics.
“The battle is fought and decided by the quartermasters, long before the shooting begins.”
Lonewolf_50 is offline  
Old 7th Mar 2022, 02:47
  #103 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: May 2011
Location: NEW YORK
Posts: 1,352
Likes: 0
Received 1 Like on 1 Post
Originally Posted by Lonewolf_50
It appears to me that the prize Putin is seeking in the south is Mariupol. City with heavy industry and shipyard/ship repair infrastructure.
If that is taken, the subsequent completion of a land bridge, if you will, from Mother Russia to Crimea might be accomplished which would probably achieve some of Putin's goals.
Taking Kiev and installing a more pliant government there would be a "great if we can manage it" goal, but may not be a "have to have" goal.
Or maybe he's decided "all or nothing" and I miss my guess.

In either case, if you can't keep the wheels and tracks rolling, you can't achieve your objectives.
What was it Rommel said about war: "Amateurs talk about strategy and tactics, professionals talk about logistics" (Or words to that effect)
Maintenance and upkeep, and spare parts, fit into logistics.
“The battle is fought and decided by the quartermasters, long before the shooting begins.”
Don't know about the logistics, but think that Russia's army relies heavily on rail transport, which is difficult if the switch yards are under hostile control
What is puzzling though is that the assault was widely predicted, so everyone knew it was imminent, except apparently the Russian troops and their logistics units.
etudiant is offline  
Old 7th Mar 2022, 08:01
  #104 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Oct 2018
Location: Ferrara
Posts: 8,254
Received 329 Likes on 194 Posts
it seems that most people in Russia were fed the same lines as people in the West - they really don't understand why Putin has launched an unprovoked attack on people they know and quite like.
Asturias56 is offline  
Old 7th Mar 2022, 08:27
  #105 (permalink)  

"Mildly" Eccentric Stardriver
 
Join Date: Jan 2000
Location: England
Age: 77
Posts: 4,131
Received 215 Likes on 62 Posts
The way I understand the invasion is that Putin didn't tell anyone, either political or military, what his aim was. The military planning was based on a short conflict, either to the front-lines of the new "republics" or to the boundary of the Donbass. That would have been feasible in 48-72 hours, and food, fuel, ammunition etc sufficient for that was on the border. That seems to be one reason everything has been slowed. Add to those problems the situation where a lot of the younger (conscripted?) troops though they were on exercise, not at war, and you are ripe for desertion, mutiny, internal sabotage.
Herod is offline  
Old 7th Mar 2022, 08:41
  #106 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: London
Posts: 1,575
Received 18 Likes on 10 Posts
With regard to the thread title, I think we have now have a definitive answer: "They don't".

Putin has fallen for the classic dictator's mistake of investing in shiny, crowd-pleasing assets, not the boring stuff like truck tyres, edible rations for the troops etc etc.
dead_pan is offline  
Old 7th Mar 2022, 09:31
  #107 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Oct 2018
Location: Ferrara
Posts: 8,254
Received 329 Likes on 194 Posts
IIRC a substantial number of conscripts are coming to the end of their stint - not a great recipe for getting people to risk their lives ............
Asturias56 is offline  
Old 7th Mar 2022, 11:25
  #108 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Nov 2000
Location: UK
Age: 69
Posts: 1,397
Received 40 Likes on 22 Posts
There is an interesting viewpoint that Russian military procurement was channeled through the hands of 'friends' each of whom took an 'introductory' commission. The end product being well publicised and glitzy, but underfunded and of poor quality.
beardy is online now  
Old 7th Mar 2022, 13:11
  #109 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: Here, there, and everywhere
Posts: 1,117
Likes: 0
Received 12 Likes on 7 Posts
Originally Posted by dead_pan
With regard to the thread title, I think we have now have a definitive answer: "They don't".

Putin has fallen for the classic dictator's mistake of investing in shiny, crowd-pleasing assets, not the boring stuff like truck tyres, edible rations for the troops etc etc.

Looks like they made a mistake of relying on cheap tires. Too perfect........

"A massive column of Russian armour believed to be intended for an assault on Kyiv remains inexplicably stopped outside the city. The best guess of military analysts is that poorly maintained Russian trucks have been breaking down en masse, all while cheaply made Chinese tires suffer repeated blowouts."

Maybe we should start airlifting nails to them for the roadways.
punkalouver is offline  
Old 7th Mar 2022, 13:27
  #110 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Hanging off the end of a thread
Posts: 32,468
Received 2,594 Likes on 1,098 Posts
Originally Posted by punkalouver

Maybe we should start airlifting nails to them for the roadways.
Use ebay and they deliver

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/334349096...Cclp%3A2047675
NutLoose is online now  
Old 7th Mar 2022, 17:28
  #111 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: sussex
Age: 75
Posts: 192
Received 2 Likes on 1 Post
During the Italian campaign in WW2 a tank officer spoke to some surrendered artillery officers from a unit that had been devastating Allied armour with their unsurpassed 88mm guns. One German officer remarked "we ran out of ammunition before you ran out of tanks". However crappy the Russian hardware, they have a lot of it. Likewise cannon-fodder.
skridlov is offline  
Old 7th Mar 2022, 17:47
  #112 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: Temporarily missing from the Joe Louis Arena
Posts: 2,131
Received 27 Likes on 16 Posts
Originally Posted by skridlov
During the Italian campaign in WW2 a tank officer spoke to some surrendered artillery officers from a unit that had been devastating Allied armour with their unsurpassed 88mm guns. One German officer remarked "we ran out of ammunition before you ran out of tanks". However crappy the Russian hardware, they have a lot of it. Likewise cannon-fodder.
They may have a lot of it, but they don't seem to have anywhere near enough fuel bowsers to keep it moving.

If the Germans hadn't run out of 88mm ammunition???

As a former Wing Mong (TSW) it's good to see that the importance of Logistics is finally being recognised by the wider media.
The Helpful Stacker is offline  
Old 7th Mar 2022, 18:16
  #113 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Sep 2019
Location: Outer ring of HEL
Posts: 1,653
Received 190 Likes on 85 Posts
This thread has fulfilled its purpose: now we all know the russians aren't miracle workers. Pay nuts etc, applies to HW too.
There was speculation regarding if Putin declares Martial law, he could muster 2 million men. I'd reckon the issues would just multiply, that army would be soviet legacy by equipment AND training. Now we've seen the young conscripts and contract soldiers. Then, at worst, we'd see people who received their training in the early 90's using equipment dug out from the darkest warehouses forgotten long ago. Imagine those being fed to NATO as the great panty poisoner goes all in...
Beamr is online now  
Old 8th Mar 2022, 11:08
  #114 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Apr 2020
Location: Hampshire
Posts: 1,257
Received 126 Likes on 82 Posts
Putin might have benefited from thinking about these quotes from Marshal Zhukov, after making the relevant substitutions.

It is a fact that under equal conditions, large-scale battles and whole wars are wonlost by troops which have a strong little will for victory, no clear goals before them, highlow moral standards, and little devotion to the banner under which they go into battle.

'NazisPutin did not expect Soviet Ukrainian resistance to be so strong. The deeper they moved into this country'sUkrainian territory, the more fierce it became. When HitlerPutin's armies approached Moscow Kyiv, every man and woman here thought it imperative to resist the enemy. And that resistance grew by the day. The enemyarmy was sustaining heavy losses, one after another. In fact, Hitler Putin's best troops perished here. NazisHe believed the Red Ukrainian Army was not capable of defending MoscowKyiv, but their schemes failed.'


Unfortunately, I think he may be believing in this one:
'The longer the battle lasts the more force we'll have to use!'

SLXOwft is offline  
Old 10th Mar 2022, 18:35
  #115 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: Here, there, and everywhere
Posts: 1,117
Likes: 0
Received 12 Likes on 7 Posts
Hey, with all this new defense spending coming up, I think I know where we should get our fighters from. Why pay ridiculous amounts on F-35's when you can get these jam-proof aircraft which are still flying:

"while Kyiv has modernized its armed forces, its Soviet-era planes have not been upgraded, and use the same communications systems as the Russian army -- meaning Moscow cannot cripple the Ukrainians without hurting their own effort."
punkalouver is offline  

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Thread Tools
Search this Thread

Contact Us - Archive - Advertising - Cookie Policy - Privacy Statement - Terms of Service

Copyright © 2024 MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands. All rights reserved. Use of this site indicates your consent to the Terms of Use.