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Breathtaking decision but the correct one.
The French contract was a dogs breakfast.
There will be a vocal minority against but I think a majority for the deal.
We are already part of the nuclear cycle.
We sell uranium. We have a small reactor at Lucas Heights. We welcome Nimitz class carriers routinely.
The Greens can get over it.
This is quantum leap in capability and I’m a little surprised the yanks would even consider letting us access the Virginia Class.
But I sincerely hope they do.
China can bleat all they want.
NZ is part of the Five Eyes but has given up on being militarily competitive. They haven’t had fast jets for years.
Silence would be their best response.
The French contract was a dogs breakfast.
There will be a vocal minority against but I think a majority for the deal.
We are already part of the nuclear cycle.
We sell uranium. We have a small reactor at Lucas Heights. We welcome Nimitz class carriers routinely.
The Greens can get over it.
This is quantum leap in capability and I’m a little surprised the yanks would even consider letting us access the Virginia Class.
But I sincerely hope they do.
China can bleat all they want.
NZ is part of the Five Eyes but has given up on being militarily competitive. They haven’t had fast jets for years.
Silence would be their best response.
Join Date: Feb 2004
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It's like Federation never happened. Australia still behaves like a colonial relic; an outpost of empire from which the mother country(ies) can launch military adventures and source cannon fodder and commodities.
A tragic waste of what could have been a genuinely great nation.
A useful distraction though for alleged leaders trying to draw attention away from debacles of own their making like Afghanistan, Brexit and the vaccine "stroll out". The "yellow peril" is still a potent political tool as it was in the 1800's.
A tragic waste of what could have been a genuinely great nation.
A useful distraction though for alleged leaders trying to draw attention away from debacles of own their making like Afghanistan, Brexit and the vaccine "stroll out". The "yellow peril" is still a potent political tool as it was in the 1800's.
Originally Posted by SevenTwentySeven
LOL a nuclear sub hobbled with conventional weapons.
Somehow I don't think the Chinese are too concerned with this latest development.
Somehow I don't think the Chinese are too concerned with this latest development.
Not concerned by something that can hang around undetected for two and a half months - possibly loaded out with conventional TLAMs, heavy torpedos, UUVs etc?
I imagine they'll have a pretty significant SIGINT suite as well.
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Originally Posted by SevenTwentySeven
LOL a nuclear sub hobbled with conventional weapons.
Somehow I don't think the Chinese are too concerned with this latest development.
Somehow I don't think the Chinese are too concerned with this latest development.
Not hobbled at all.
Extremely, extremely capable.
Standing by for a flood of ill-informed opinion.
Adam Bandt already living up to expectations.
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Originally Posted by Grumpy retiree
We are talking attack submarines not ballistic missile submarines.
Not hobbled at all.
Extremely, extremely capable.
Standing by for a flood of ill-informed opinion.
Adam Bandt already living up to expectations.
Not hobbled at all.
Extremely, extremely capable.
Standing by for a flood of ill-informed opinion.
Adam Bandt already living up to expectations.
RAN takes out a Chinese destroyer with one of these you bewt new subs.
30 minutes later RAAF Tindal is a smoking hole in the ground.
If you are going to play with the big boys, carry a bigger stick. This is just embarrassing.
Originally Posted by SevenTwentySeven
Ok, let's paint a scenario shall we?
RAN takes out a Chinese destroyer with one of these you bewt new subs.
30 minutes later RAAF Tindal is a smoking hole in the ground.
If you are going to play with the big boys, carry a bigger stick. This is just embarrassing.
RAN takes out a Chinese destroyer with one of these you bewt new subs.
30 minutes later RAAF Tindal is a smoking hole in the ground.
If you are going to play with the big boys, carry a bigger stick. This is just embarrassing.
Exactly.
If it got to the point where a RAN boat was taking out a Chinese destroyer - I think the Chinese would already have a helluva lot more to worry about than RAAF Tindall.
This is all about being part of an alliance at a strategic level - and an orbat at a tactical level.
No way we'd be acting alone in a fight.
It's a huge development.
There are two crown jewels in the special relationship - SIGINT, and nuclear capability.
Australia already is an essential partner in terms of SIGINT, and has now been given access to something that only the UK had prior.
Very significant indeed in a geopolitical sense.
If it got to the point where a RAN boat was taking out a Chinese destroyer - I think the Chinese would already have a helluva lot more to worry about than RAAF Tindall.
This is all about being part of an alliance at a strategic level - and an orbat at a tactical level.
No way we'd be acting alone in a fight.
It's a huge development.
There are two crown jewels in the special relationship - SIGINT, and nuclear capability.
Australia already is an essential partner in terms of SIGINT, and has now been given access to something that only the UK had prior.
Very significant indeed in a geopolitical sense.
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I agree with the decision however how many times have we seen bungled purchases by the Govt / DMO? (Collins, Sea-sprite, NH90, French Subs, dare I say F-35's ).
I remember being in Newcastle harbour back in around 1995 ( Nowdays 49% Chinese owned) when the nuclear powered USS John S McCain sailed into the port for a visit, the greenies were all lined up and down the break wall in protest of it being nuclear powered and that the city was going to blow up!
I remember being in Newcastle harbour back in around 1995 ( Nowdays 49% Chinese owned) when the nuclear powered USS John S McCain sailed into the port for a visit, the greenies were all lined up and down the break wall in protest of it being nuclear powered and that the city was going to blow up!
Originally Posted by Ascend Charlie
Soundly in favour of it, about time we ditched the (polluting) diesel subs and went nuclear. We are a huge source of uranium, though it will need overseas processing to become fuel rods.
The French contract was a horse's arse, massive modifications to make it sort of suitable, and driven by politicians wanting some of the action in their electorates. Also not delivered till 2035, about 10 years after China takes over Hong Kong and Taiwan and a bunch of other islands in the Philippines and Indonesia.
Typical Greens, screeching about explosions in the capital cities. Can we turn them into Soylent Greens?
The French contract was a horse's arse, massive modifications to make it sort of suitable, and driven by politicians wanting some of the action in their electorates. Also not delivered till 2035, about 10 years after China takes over Hong Kong and Taiwan and a bunch of other islands in the Philippines and Indonesia.
Typical Greens, screeching about explosions in the capital cities. Can we turn them into Soylent Greens?
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The RAN was going to blow $ 90 billion trying to stuff a diesel electric power plant into nuclear sub platform all the while pretending it could somehow come up with a capability similar to , guess what ? , a nuclear submarine.
Ironically the Virginia Class will be cheaper !
Opposition to a nuclear submarine has always been political , not military.
A rational solution at last………..
Ironically the Virginia Class will be cheaper !
Opposition to a nuclear submarine has always been political , not military.
A rational solution at last………..
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Originally Posted by rjtjrt
One big question is why is US selling submarines to a country like Austria that is landlocked?
The Austro - Hungarians had a navy !
But I have lived long enough to know that when we are being told to fear a threat its because someone is waiting in the wings to make loads of money from it.
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Originally Posted by SevenTwentySeven
If you are going to play with the big boys, carry a bigger stick.
"We will be enhancing our long-range strike capability including Tomahawk cruise missiles to be fielded on the Royal Australian Navy Hobart class destroyers and joint air-to-surface stand-off missiles extended range for our Royal Australian Air Force capabilities," Australian Prime Minister Scott Morrison told reporters in Canberra.
Tomahawk missiles too.
Tomahawk missiles too.
Given the Tomahawk is modular - one would assume that if changing payloads ever became a necessity... it could be done.
Command and control would be an altogether different issue...
I see my other homeland to the east has already told the RAN any nuclear powered subs won't be able to visit.
Command and control would be an altogether different issue...
I see my other homeland to the east has already told the RAN any nuclear powered subs won't be able to visit.
Last edited by tartare; 16th Sep 2021 at 05:15.
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Originally Posted by tartare
Given the Tomahawk is modular - one would assume that if changing payloads ever became a necessity... it could be done.
Command and control would be an altogether different issue...
I see my other homeland to the east has already told the RAN any nuclear powered subs won't be able to visit.
Command and control would be an altogether different issue...
I see my other homeland to the east has already told the RAN any nuclear powered subs won't be able to visit.
