Go Back  PPRuNe Forums > Aircrew Forums > Military Aviation
Reload this Page >

Afghanistan 2021 Onwards

Military Aviation A forum for the professionals who fly military hardware. Also for the backroom boys and girls who support the flying and maintain the equipment, and without whom nothing would ever leave the ground. All armies, navies and air forces of the world equally welcome here.

Afghanistan 2021 Onwards

Old 31st Aug 2021, 02:00
  #661 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Hanging off the end of a thread
Posts: 26,397
Received 123 Likes on 53 Posts



Such a sad day, but couldn’t they muster a fleet of hearse, a transit van seem so impersonal.
NutLoose is online now  
Old 31st Aug 2021, 02:16
  #662 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: UK
Posts: 543
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Originally Posted by RAFEngO74to09 View Post
90 members of Flag Officers 4 America have now called for SecDef Austin & Chairman JCS Gen Milley to resign:

Media and PR (flagofficers4america.com)
Did any of them speak out in the strongest possible terms?
woptb is offline  
Old 31st Aug 2021, 02:32
  #663 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Apr 2001
Location: surfing, watching for sharks
Posts: 3,914
Likes: 0
Received 3 Likes on 2 Posts
Originally Posted by Lonewolf_50 View Post
Nation building takes two generations. At least, if you hope for anything like a lasting change.
If you want democracy to stick. (My point of reference is South Korea).
Democracy needs to grow from the ground up and even then it can be a fragile thing.
I wonder how much push back there will be from those who benefitted from the 20 year experiment now that the country is under new management. The Northern Alliance is reconstituting, ISIS K, wants its piece, AQ leadership is in Kabul. The Taliban may learn how difficult a task they’re up against. My thought is the country will further devolve.

Is the Fat Wun interested in franchising?

Last edited by West Coast; 31st Aug 2021 at 05:21.
West Coast is offline  
Old 31st Aug 2021, 03:33
  #664 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jul 2013
Location: Everett, WA
Age: 67
Posts: 3,806
Received 7 Likes on 6 Posts
Reportedly there are still several hundred US passport holders that didn't want to stay but couldn't get out. So much for Biden's promise that we'd stay until until we got the job done.
Disgusting - absolutely disgusting.
Did we just leave them to be murdered, or turned into hostages?
tdracer is offline  
Old 31st Aug 2021, 03:52
  #665 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: May 2002
Location: Downeast
Age: 74
Posts: 17,789
Received 146 Likes on 59 Posts
The Taliban always did like good optics.....brings a new dimension to the old saying of "Hang'em High".....I suppose construction cranes are so yesterday as done in Iran.
SASless is offline  
Old 31st Aug 2021, 06:08
  #666 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: N/A
Posts: 4,949
Likes: 0
Received 57 Likes on 25 Posts
couldn’t they muster a fleet of hearse, a transit van seem so impersonal
I'd imagine it's transportation from the arriving aircraft to the base holding area, where onward transportation to the unfortunates place of internment will be arranged, usually by airline.
megan is offline  
Old 31st Aug 2021, 06:20
  #667 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: May 2002
Location: Downeast
Age: 74
Posts: 17,789
Received 146 Likes on 59 Posts
Bad PR to have a dozen Hearses lined up in front of the Big Guy.

Four vehicles reduces the impact of the image when posted on the front page of newspapers or splashed all over social media.

With Politicians it is all about imagery and not content.

Remember when the four Men killed in Benghazi were brought to Dover?

They used Hearses then.

https://www.c-span.org/video/?308200...ictims-remains
SASless is offline  
Old 31st Aug 2021, 07:04
  #668 (permalink)  
Ecce Homo! Loquitur...
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Jul 2000
Location: Peripatetic
Posts: 14,016
Likes: 0
Received 36 Likes on 22 Posts
https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/p...aths-c753ltp8m

Pentagon leaks blame UK for bombing deaths

The special relationship was under strain last night after Pentagon leaks claimed that the US had kept open a gate at Kabul airport, despite knowing there was a high risk of attack, to assist the British evacuation.

Senior government sources and Tory MPs accused Washington of trying to “shift the blame” after the leaks suggested that senior US military figures wanted to close Abbey Gate on Thursday, hours before a deadly bombing.

Rear Admiral Peter Vasely, commander of the US forces in Afghanistan, was said to have told colleagues in a call on Thursday that the gate would remain open because British forces had “accelerated their drawdown”…..

The leak of classified notes of calls with senior military figures and politicians, which were obtained by Politico, led to a backlash in Britain.

One government source said: “The US is having to explain the total mess that has been the evacuation. There’s clearly some hard briefing going on.”

Another government source did not recognise the briefing. “We understood the severity of the situation; we changed the travel advice,” the source said. “If they had closed Abbey Gate we would have been totally supportive.” The source was unaware of any British request to keep the gate open.

Tobias Ellwood, a Conservative MP and chairman of the defence select committee, said: “I fear this is more to do with an unhelpful blame game . . . it shows how much of a low ebb the special relationship has sunk to.”

https://www.politico.com/news/2021/0...k-kabul-507481
ORAC is offline  
Old 31st Aug 2021, 07:28
  #669 (permalink)  
Ecce Homo! Loquitur...
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Jul 2000
Location: Peripatetic
Posts: 14,016
Likes: 0
Received 36 Likes on 22 Posts
73 aircraft put out if commission? That seems an awful lot of helicopters. Not sure if they had any fixed wing based at the airport.

One of the last tasks facing the American military was the destruction of equipment they were unable to take with them. In all 70 tactical vehicles, 27 Humvees and 73 aircraft at Kabul airport were put out of commission.
CNN: Some US military equipment removed from Afghanistan and other items disabled, top general says

Some of the US military equipment used in Afghanistan was removed from the country and other items were disabled, Gen. Frank McKenzie, commander of US Central Command, told reporters during a briefing on Monday.

The US military kept some equipment operating until nearly the end of the withdrawal to protect US forces and people at Kabul international airport, McKenzie said. That equipment was “demilitarized,” McKenzie said, meaning it was disabled in a way that makes it impossible to use.

As an example, McKenzie said he advanced C-RAM defensive system, which stands for Counter-Rocket, Artillery, and Mortar, was left at Hamid Karzai International Airport.

The automated C-RAM system, which detects incoming fire and destroys it with a machine gun, was activated just one day before the withdrawal was complete, when militants fired approximately five rockets at the airport. Two rockets that would have landed on the field were intercepted by C-RAM.

“It’s a complex procedure, complex and time intensive procedure to break down those systems so we de-militarized those systems so that they’ll never be used again, and we just felt it more important to protect our forces than to bring those systems back,” McKenzie said.

The US military also left behind about 70 MRAPS or Mine Resistant Ambush Protected Vehicles, 27 Humvees, which are tactical vehicles, and 73 aircrafts at the Kabul airport. This equipment was disabled,

McKenzie said. A “total of 73 aircraft, those aircraft will never fly again when we left, they’ll never be operated by anyone,” McKenzie said.

Last edited by ORAC; 31st Aug 2021 at 07:39.
ORAC is offline  
Old 31st Aug 2021, 09:29
  #670 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: UK
Posts: 231
Received 2 Likes on 2 Posts
Not trying to second guess anyone in an extremely tough and stressful environment.
I am sure there were calls to pile all of the equipment together and torch it,
Why would this have been overruled?
The leadership not wanting bad PR?
Spunky Monkey is offline  
Old 31st Aug 2021, 11:05
  #671 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Hanging off the end of a thread
Posts: 26,397
Received 123 Likes on 53 Posts
Films of what's left



NutLoose is online now  
Old 31st Aug 2021, 12:18
  #672 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Hanging off the end of a thread
Posts: 26,397
Received 123 Likes on 53 Posts
They show the last Ameican troop to leave Kabul "Soil" was some General or other, but surely it was the Crewman was the last as he would need to fold the boarding ramps?

https://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/ent...b0231e369fb2d8
NutLoose is online now  
Old 31st Aug 2021, 12:21
  #673 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Hanging off the end of a thread
Posts: 26,397
Received 123 Likes on 53 Posts


https://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/ent...b06e5d80d14302
NutLoose is online now  
Old 31st Aug 2021, 13:15
  #674 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: The Alps
Posts: 2,848
Likes: 0
Received 10 Likes on 6 Posts
Originally Posted by NutLoose View Post



Such a sad day, but couldn’t they muster a fleet of hearse, a transit van seem so impersonal.
Around decade and half they used converted bluebird bus for dignified transfers from ramp to the Charles C Carson Mortuary (and crem) on base. least these vans have some dignified markings. Likewise too funeral directors private ambulances that remove the deceased from either scene SOf crime or trauma tend to be kitted out with two layers.

I could be wrong but I am led to believe that families are not present on the ramp at dover (??) unlike how we do things with families on the ramp when o. IIRC F Barry & Sons Undertakers of London (featured in ITV or Ch4 documentary) had MoD contract at Brize.. Also the IDS and PMs are done at John Radcliffe in Oxford not on base so for us makes more sense for funeral cortège transfer.

Very sad times …in light of the T mouthing off on news about reclaiming their independence …
chopper2004 is offline  
Old 31st Aug 2021, 14:31
  #675 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Hobe Sound, Florida
Posts: 888
Received 18 Likes on 14 Posts

The Kabul picture of the 82nd Airborne’s CO General Donohue reminded of the famous WWII poster below, and one can be sure General Donohue’s thoughts on boarding that C-17 were likely unprintable.

Well, buddy, just pull your tank in behind me. I’m the 82nd Airborne, and this is as far as the bastards are going!”

JohnDixson is offline  
Old 31st Aug 2021, 14:34
  #676 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Hanging off the end of a thread
Posts: 26,397
Received 123 Likes on 53 Posts
Hanging people under a Blackhawk

https://newsactress.com/real-face-of...e-video-viral/
NutLoose is online now  
Old 31st Aug 2021, 14:39
  #677 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: The Empire
Age: 48
Posts: 223
Likes: 0
Received 4 Likes on 2 Posts
The equipment left behind/seized/abandoned, sadly is not much different to Vietnam (I mean the manner/amount - not the actual kit). It is just that we have the instant spread of footage these days.

Part of me wishes they had of put time delayed ED’s on each bit of kit. But after the destruction and horror I saw out there, I’m glad they didn’t.

Here is hoping that those in Afghanistan who want some form of freedom, can take some of that kit and use it for their own liberation.

It’s a very sad outcome however, an expected outcome. Here is to all of those that didn’t come home - or came home not whole of body and/or soul, and their families.
Doors Off is offline  
Old 31st Aug 2021, 15:31
  #678 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Hanging off the end of a thread
Posts: 26,397
Received 123 Likes on 53 Posts
Or a Hellfire into each hangar / aircraft / vehicle cluster after they departed, but with Nationals still in country and potential hostages they are I supposed limited in their actions. you could have driven a tug or similar into the aircraft noses thus rendering them as scrap.

Still on the bright side, todays gains, tomorrows museum pieces to be rescued from an Afghan scrapyard.

..

Last edited by NutLoose; 31st Aug 2021 at 15:57.
NutLoose is online now  
Old 31st Aug 2021, 16:14
  #679 (permalink)  
Ecce Homo! Loquitur...
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Jul 2000
Location: Peripatetic
Posts: 14,016
Likes: 0
Received 36 Likes on 22 Posts
I could be wrong but I am led to believe that families are not present on the ramp at dover
According to the UK press they were there, but hidden from the TV cameras. Quote:

Relatives of the fallen were hidden from view behind a line of buses. Their presence became obvious as the second flag-draped transfer case emerged from the plane to the sound of anguished howling.
ORAC is offline  
Old 31st Aug 2021, 17:31
  #680 (permalink)  
Ecce Homo! Loquitur...
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Jul 2000
Location: Peripatetic
Posts: 14,016
Likes: 0
Received 36 Likes on 22 Posts
Taliban shocked, shocked I tell you, that the departing US and Afghan evacuees have wrecked the aircraft and equipment at the airport before their departure….

From the sound of those Black Hocks they must have made a complete pigs of it….

https://www.aa.com.tr/en/asia-pacifi...irport/2351713
ORAC is offline  

Thread Tools
Search this Thread

Contact Us - Archive - Advertising - Cookie Policy - Privacy Statement - Terms of Service - Do Not Sell or Share My Personal Information

Copyright © 2023 MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands. All rights reserved. Use of this site indicates your consent to the Terms of Use.