Go Back  PPRuNe Forums > Aircrew Forums > Military Aviation
Reload this Page >

Hawk incident near Culdrose

Military Aviation A forum for the professionals who fly military hardware. Also for the backroom boys and girls who support the flying and maintain the equipment, and without whom nothing would ever leave the ground. All armies, navies and air forces of the world equally welcome here.

Hawk incident near Culdrose

Old 28th Mar 2021, 01:11
  #61 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Aug 2000
Location: Here and there.
Posts: 1,062
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
NLG, seems it kicked off at around 14,000 ft or so as xx189 tracked south west. 7700 squawk appeared on fr24 as it passed north of Falmouth, still heading sw, and descending through around 11,500ft.
The aircraft appears to have followed a wide left turn with continued descent passing around Culdrose at about 8000ft before tracking east across the Lizard, coasting out, then making a left turn back towards the Helford.

FR24 playback is still available to view.
​​​​Time will tell, and thankfully there are two people still around to give their 1st-hand input rather than our 2nd-guessing.
SATCOS WHIPPING BOY is offline  
Old 28th Mar 2021, 10:19
  #62 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: London
Posts: 1,513
Likes: 0
Received 1 Like on 1 Post
Seagull at 14,000'? Wouldn't be my first thought
dead_pan is offline  
Old 28th Mar 2021, 23:59
  #63 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Dec 2020
Location: Norwich
Posts: 26
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Originally Posted by SATCOS WHIPPING BOY View Post
NLG, seems it kicked off at around 14,000 ft or so as xx189 tracked south west. 7700 squawk appeared on fr24 as it passed north of Falmouth, still heading sw, and descending through around 11,500ft.
The aircraft appears to have followed a wide left turn with continued descent passing around Culdrose at about 8000ft before tracking east across the Lizard, coasting out, then making a left turn back towards the Helford.

FR24 playback is still available to view.
​​​​Time will tell, and thankfully there are two people still around to give their 1st-hand input rather than our 2nd-guessing.
Well, medium level does kill the Gull kill. I had no idea what height things kicked off. Failure of a LP or HP rotating part is a grounding event usually in anything else nowadays. Pilots first hand input will not tell anyone why the engine failed. Investigation of the remains of the engine will. They will only say it made a horrible noise and gauges started winding down or temps rocketed and they would done the FRCs to try and save the situation.
Non Linear Gear is offline  
Old 29th Mar 2021, 08:31
  #64 (permalink)  
Gnome de PPRuNe
 
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: Too close to Croydon for comfort
Age: 58
Posts: 10,960
Received 5 Likes on 5 Posts
Various migratory birds will fly much higher than 14000' so it's not impossible that something feathery went down an air intake. I believe a 727 had a (feathered) hawk through the radome somewhere up around 30000' in the '70s (the version I heard had its carcass entering the cockpit via the footwell and busting the first officer's leg!) and another airliner ingested a vulture even higher than that. Think both occurred over Africa/Middle East though.

Gulls are far too lazy to climb that high, particularly if there's any prospect of snaffling a pasty or a 99.
treadigraph is online now  
Old 30th Mar 2021, 14:57
  #65 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: In the State of Denial
Posts: 1,005
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Not a bird strike but many years ago I was westbound to N America around 30W at FL260 when an insect impacted the middle of my windscreen, I always thought that was one very lost (& unlucky) bug.
Ken Scott is online now  
Old 30th Mar 2021, 15:05
  #66 (permalink)  
Ecce Homo! Loquitur...
 
Join Date: Jul 2000
Location: Peripatetic
Posts: 14,019
Likes: 0
Received 36 Likes on 22 Posts
Not lost, but ballooning.....

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ballooning_(spider)
ORAC is online now  
Old 30th Mar 2021, 16:17
  #67 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Sep 1998
Location: uk
Posts: 241
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
I took an albatross just after airborne at Midway many years ago. No indications. Six hours later after landing it was extracted from one of the concord shaped cooling duct intakes between the jet pipes. Deep frozen and quite cylindrical. Only slight damage to the redundant intake.

Nothing matters very much, most things don't matter at all.
Busta is offline  
Old 30th Mar 2021, 17:13
  #68 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Feb 2001
Location: Lechlade, Glos.UK
Posts: 775
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
I hit a duck in a Hawk... Pate
sharpend is offline  
Old 30th Mar 2021, 20:59
  #69 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Glorious Devon
Posts: 893
Received 17 Likes on 5 Posts
Originally Posted by sharpend View Post
I hit a duck in a Hawk... Pate
I am surprised its feet were long enough to reach the pedals.
Ninthace is offline  
Old 30th Mar 2021, 21:26
  #70 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: UK
Posts: 5,223
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Coming back through cloud and dodging the cu-nimbs in China there was a loud thud and the windscreen got covered in blood and feathers. An unauthorised cormorant flying illegally under IMC had run into the radar radome. Not only had it totalled itself but it collapsed the radome and jammed the scanner. Now blind to the weather there followed quite a bumpy ride until we were clear.

The British engineers looked at it in an advisory capacity and stated that it needed a new radome. The Chinese engineers, whose aircraft it was, took it off and departed for the nearest panel beaters.

It come back a few hours later; indistinguishable from new.
Fareastdriver is offline  
Old 30th Mar 2021, 23:26
  #71 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jan 2019
Location: Narfalk
Posts: 391
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Originally Posted by sharpend View Post
I hit a duck in a Hawk... Pate
Got you a medal.
Cat Techie is offline  
Old 31st Mar 2021, 12:24
  #72 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Hanging off the end of a thread
Posts: 26,404
Received 128 Likes on 53 Posts
I can remember a Learjet we operated, the wing on it was so critical, it had a mixture of flush and dome headed screws along the leading edge to maintain the wing characteristics etc, it was forbidden to remove the leading edge for maintenance, this had to be carried out at a Lear main facility because simply removing the screws and putting them back in the same holes could alter the characteristics. Anyway on take off it meet a goose and boy was the dent to behold.. pictures flew back and forth and eventually Lear told us to take the leading edge off, beat the proverbial out of it to get it back into some shape resembling the leading edge, then fly it back to the USA for replacement and setting up.
NutLoose is online now  
Old 31st Mar 2021, 12:57
  #73 (permalink)  

Avoid imitations
 
Join Date: Nov 2000
Location: Wandering the FIR and cyberspace often at highly unsociable times
Posts: 14,075
Received 56 Likes on 28 Posts
A Hawk flying at speed and suffering a bird strike could easily zoom climb to quite some altitude. Converting speed to height is ingrained into military trained pilots, to give more time to deal with the situation. So if it was a bird strike it might have occurred much lower than the appearance of the 7700 squawk might suggest.
ShyTorque is offline  
Old 31st Mar 2021, 13:41
  #74 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: Near the coast
Posts: 2,188
Likes: 0
Received 46 Likes on 7 Posts
Shytorque

You are correct in your statement of zooming to height but you have over egged it slightly.

A Hawk at LL (let’s assume 420 knots) that suffers a catastrophic engine failure can expect to achieve somewhere in the region of 5000’ AGL and establish a 190 KIAS glide. This assumes it is flown in an energy efficient way.

I will reiterate that I know nothing about the accident in question and the bird strike idea is still theoretical.

BV
Bob Viking is offline  
Old 31st Mar 2021, 17:03
  #75 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Oct 1999
Location: Den Haag/Constanta
Age: 56
Posts: 5,506
Received 44 Likes on 28 Posts
Originally Posted by Fareastdriver View Post
Coming back through cloud and dodging the cu-nimbs in China there was a loud thud and the windscreen got covered in blood and feathers. An unauthorised cormorant flying illegally under IMC had run into the radar radome. Not only had it totalled itself but it collapsed the radome and jammed the scanner. Now blind to the weather there followed quite a bumpy ride until we were clear.

The British engineers looked at it in an advisory capacity and stated that it needed a new radome. The Chinese engineers, whose aircraft it was, took it off and departed for the nearest panel beaters.

It come back a few hours later; indistinguishable from new.
Panel beating glass fibre must take some skill!
212man is online now  
Old 31st Mar 2021, 17:43
  #76 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Dec 2000
Location: Horsham, England, UK. ---o--O--o---
Posts: 1,171
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Angel

Originally Posted by sharpend View Post
I hit a duck in a Hawk... Pate
Shame, you would have thought he would have ducked! 🤔. 😂
Out Of Trim is offline  
Old 31st Mar 2021, 18:23
  #77 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Hanging off the end of a thread
Posts: 26,404
Received 128 Likes on 53 Posts
Originally Posted by Fareastdriver View Post
Coming back through cloud and dodging the cu-nimbs in China there was a loud thud and the windscreen got covered in blood and feathers. An unauthorised cormorant flying illegally under IMC had run into the radar radome. Not only had it totalled itself but it collapsed the radome and jammed the scanner. Now blind to the weather there followed quite a bumpy ride until we were clear.

The British engineers looked at it in an advisory capacity and stated that it needed a new radome. The Chinese engineers, whose aircraft it was, took it off and departed for the nearest panel beaters.

It come back a few hours later; indistinguishable from new.
with probably a bloody great shadow on the radar return.
NutLoose is online now  
Old 31st Mar 2021, 19:16
  #78 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: UK
Posts: 5,223
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
with probably a bloody great shadow on the radar return
Absolutely perfect. All their machines were immaculate with a serviceability rate that eclipsed their G reg forerunners. They were the smoothest and fastest of all the helicopters I had ever flown for over forty years.
Fareastdriver is offline  
Old 31st Mar 2021, 19:22
  #79 (permalink)  

Avoid imitations
 
Join Date: Nov 2000
Location: Wandering the FIR and cyberspace often at highly unsociable times
Posts: 14,075
Received 56 Likes on 28 Posts
Originally Posted by Bob Viking View Post
You are correct in your statement of zooming to height but you have over egged it slightly.

A Hawk at LL (let’s assume 420 knots) that suffers a catastrophic engine failure can expect to achieve somewhere in the region of 5000’ AGL and establish a 190 KIAS glide. This assumes it is flown in an energy efficient way.

I will reiterate that I know nothing about the accident in question and the bird strike idea is still theoretical.

BV
How do you know that I “over egged” it? Do you know at what altitude they suffered the engine failure?
ShyTorque is offline  
Old 31st Mar 2021, 20:08
  #80 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: Near the coast
Posts: 2,188
Likes: 0
Received 46 Likes on 7 Posts
Shytorque

Originally Posted by ShyTorque View Post
A Hawk flying at speed and suffering a bird strike could easily zoom climb to quite some altitude.
If you believe that gaining 5000’ classes as ‘quite some altitude’ then by all means please consider your pudding to be egged to a satisfactory, but not excessive, level.

If you had started at LL that means 10 miles of gliding until the aircraft will impact the ground. Since we usually plan to eject before we get too low (let’s say about 1-2000’ minimum) that gives about 6 or 7 miles of useful gliding range which equates to approximately 2 minutes of flying time.

Of course if the engine failure happens at a higher altitude you can add the numbers on (although your zoom potential will be lessened and you will be less likely to have been traveling at such a high IAS).

Despite all of this I still know precisely nothing about the circumstances surrounding last weeks crash.

BV
Bob Viking is offline  

Thread Tools
Search this Thread

Contact Us - Archive - Advertising - Cookie Policy - Privacy Statement - Terms of Service - Do Not Sell or Share My Personal Information

Copyright © 2023 MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands. All rights reserved. Use of this site indicates your consent to the Terms of Use.