Hawk incident near Culdrose

[Ken Scott]

XX189? What a shame - I first flew it over 40 years ago on the first of the new TWU courses with 63 Sqn at Heaven-in-Devon.

A few years ago when I had some time to kill & I was in something of a reflective mood I went through my old logbooks to work out how many ac I’d flown had been subsequently lost during the nearly 40 years since I’d started flying.

I totalled up 17 which was rather sobering (though none were at my hands!) I count myself fortunate to have got away with it especially given some of the near misses.

Very relieved to hear that both crew walked away, I hope their injuries are minor & they’re back in the air soon.

[RetiredBA/BY]

Originally Posted by STENDEC North

Lost on the approach to 29 by the looks of. Great to hear both are safe and well, MB have something in the post for you.

.....and an excellent offer on a Bremont MB1 watch !

[419]

Do military aircraft such as the Hawk in question have flight data recorders or CVR's fitted to them?

[CAEBr]

Do military aircraft such as the Hawk in question have flight data recorders or CVR's fitted to them?

Broadly yes, as far as newer types are concerned. The TMk1 has an ADR but no CVR. Fitment of a CVR has been recommended in several BoI/SI's but the MoD haven't yet taken the plunge. With the prospect of a 2030 oos date interest was being raised again, but with the latest defence review that now looks unlikely.

[Wirbelsturm]

Do military aircraft such as the Hawk in question have flight data recorders or CVR's fitted to them?

Not in my time they didn't (thank god!). Not sure about now but I, personally, wouldn't think so. ^^^^^^ I accede to greater wisdom above! ^^^^^^

IIRC Thursday war 'let's be a missile' jaunts were normally done solo. Often taking a punter in the back for a jolly. If that's the case today then I guess the ballast got more of a ride than they though they might and the delights of the MB tie and subsequent after dinner dit!

Best wishes for a speedy recovery to both!

[On_The_Top_Bunk]

Why aim for the river?

Comments on the BBC news page."The pilot was very concerned about the whereabouts of the jet," he said.
"He said they aimed to put it in the Helford River but we saw it heading away from the river."

Why the river and pollute a water course?

At least there were no comments like "Bravely steered away from the local primary school"

[NutLoose]

Probably to minimise possible damage to both structures and people, (whilst contaminating the river with jet fuel and killing a few fish), plus I would imagine it would stay relatively intact and in a localised area and reduce the risk of fire / explosion.

[Fareastdriver]

There is a marked CofG shift when two people leave a Hawk so any idea of trimming it to fly any where once you leave it is a waste of time.

[STENDEC North]

Parachutes

Originally Posted by Tankertrashnav

Do they use Irvin parachutes (or the successor company)? If so I assume there will be caterpillar club badges on the way eventually as well.

GQ I believe.

[212man]

Originally Posted by STENDEC North

GQ I believe.

https://www.irvingq.com/our-story/caterpillar-club/

[ORAC]

A suitably restrained and laid back comment from the local MP.....

”Johnny Mercer, a defence minister, said that the accident was caused by “suspected engine failure”.“

There’s nothing more to it than that,” he said. “They’ve had a problem, they’ve ejected, they’ve been picked up. We’re assessing them and we’ll have more information in due course.”

Mercer, who represents the constituency where the accident took place, served in the armed forces between 2002 and 2013 after graduating from Sandhurst.”.......

[Timber1667]

Johnny Mercer MP for Plymouth Moor View, not where accident occurred near Helston, Cornwall,

[grmps]

I know folk discredit Fr24 but I happened to be watching the plane after being alerted to the 7700 indication. The “glide” speed (if, as reported in the press, an engine failure) seemed to vary between 250 and 350 until the trace stopped over the sea at around 2500ft, I think. Isn’t that a bit fast?

Or is the whole trace rubbish?

[peterperfect]

Mercer is MP for Plymouth, Moor View. He was nice and succinct though.

[STENDEC North]

Relight speed perhaps?

[A310bcal]

Hawk loss

Originally Posted by MATELO

It popped up on the alerts for FR24 just before 09:30, it then disappeared over the water about 5 miles south of Falmouth.

Hi, what sort of altitude was the Hawk at when you first followed its progress having presumably been alerted by the 7700 squawk ?

[Non Linear Gear]

Engine failure. Nobody has said birdstrike yet. Birds of the Herring Gull size do kill engines, including Adours. Could be as simple as that. I have seen Adours totally wasted by bird strike FODing. The Jigsaw puzzle will not take long to be put together.

[NutLoose]

T1’s grounded until more is known


https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-cornwall-56531788

[Tankertrashnav]

"He said they aimed to put it in the Helford River but we saw it heading away from the river."

Why the river and pollute a water course?

The Helford River is in fact the name of the arm of the sea which cuts across the Lizard Peninsula almost as far as Culdrose, so not a river as such. Part of it is known as Frenchman's Creek, made famous in the Daphne du Maurier novel.

At least there were no comments like "Bravely steered away from the local primary school"

True, but the local facebook page had a comment congratulating the pilots on crashing their aircraft in an empty field!

[tmmorris]

Originally Posted by grmps

Or is the whole trace rubbish?

Well... many accident threads on PPRuNe certainly lead me to take things like speed with a pinch of salt, especially at low altitudes. Unless the speed is transmitted on ADS-B or similar, it’s calculated from successive positions and if an aircraft is manoeuvring it can be highly inaccurate.