Go Back  PPRuNe Forums > Aircrew Forums > Military Aviation
Reload this Page >

Beards in the RAF

Military Aviation A forum for the professionals who fly military hardware. Also for the backroom boys and girls who support the flying and maintain the equipment, and without whom nothing would ever leave the ground. All armies, navies and air forces of the world equally welcome here.

Beards in the RAF

Old 25th Mar 2021, 19:42
  #41 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Oct 1999
Location: Den Haag
Age: 57
Posts: 6,029
Received 244 Likes on 143 Posts
Originally Posted by Ewan Whosearmy
212Man, not sure that Bob works for the same Air Force as you...

On a practical note, does the beard interfere with the fit of the mask, especially if pressure breathing is active?
I donít work for any Air Force anymore, but I think/thought BV works for the one in question.
212man is offline  
Old 25th Mar 2021, 20:28
  #42 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: May 2000
Location: UK
Posts: 4,328
Received 75 Likes on 29 Posts
I must admit that I am not a fan of beards, but then some of my mates have them due to their religious beliefs, so it is hard to say Ďno beardsí when they get to have one due to their imaginary friends. So, itís either all or nothing, so I think it is indefensible to say no to some and yes to others.

Here is an interesting scientific study into firefighterís masks and the effects of beards on their performance: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3564146/

Now, what is often interesting whenever your life depends on a good seal - fire fighting, needing pressure or 100% oxygen breathing or in CBRN then it is amazing how quickly the razors come out!!! If I held the risk of Aircrew flying with beards, where even some of the masks have stamped inside them that beards will lessen their effectiveness, then there is no way, coupled to studies like the above, that I would authorise beards for Aircrew flying in aircraft with oxygen systems.
Lima Juliet is offline  
Old 25th Mar 2021, 20:55
  #43 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Derbyshire
Posts: 410
Likes: 0
Received 61 Likes on 18 Posts
Young......?

You weren't "young" then, MOG.

Just younger than you are now!!

ex-fast-jets is offline  
Old 25th Mar 2021, 23:04
  #44 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Too far South
Age: 50
Posts: 90
Received 8 Likes on 3 Posts
Originally Posted by Haraka
Hence my "reap what you sow" implication. Pandering to ever multiplying "Wokeness" current pressures on the Service, whilst sidestepping key issues, is a dangerous path to follow in the longer term.
Join the 21st century!

If the RAF is to survive the next 100 years it needs to accept the need to change.
Women CAN get pregnant, have a baby and still contribute to the service. (Shock horror they can even fly aircraft and join the RAF Regiment)
Being gay does not make you an automatic target for blackmail.
Having a beard does not instantly make you scruffy (The design of our current PCS and the insistence that a short jacket should be tucked in like a shirt does)
Not being a straight white male does not make you incapable of doing the job.

Have you seen the state of people's hair at the moment? Long and unkempt, or uneven from trying to DIY cut it.... but that is currently the law of the land. The RAF has accepted that, and do you know what? Despite a global pandemic, despite people being ill, despite not being able to go on leave to visit family, despite not meeting new born nephews, nieces and cousins, despite not being able to say goodbye to loved ones - those scruffy, unkempt men and women (white, black, straight, gay, cis, trans or bearded) we have still managed to introduce new platforms and capabilities, police the skies of the UK and the Balkans and even continue operations in the middle East.
Lomon is offline  
Old 26th Mar 2021, 02:53
  #45 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: North
Posts: 21
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
From conversation with aircrew down at MPA last year there seemed to be a belief that the seal around the top of the nose was of more concern than the beard, but after a jet had to descend rapidly owing to oxygen issues a high rank in charge decided that beards were unsafe without having much scientific evidence either way so banned the fast fleet from growing them (albeit keeping the usual exemptions). Others in charge decided solidarity was necessary so rolled the same rule across slower aircraft.
How much is true I'm not sure but this tour there are fewer beards than there were last year when the rule had just changed, I miss the weekly beard parade with the CWO inspecting each beard for compliance...
MountainMetman is offline  
Old 26th Mar 2021, 04:02
  #46 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: Near the coast
Posts: 2,311
Received 285 Likes on 67 Posts
212man

Originally Posted by 212man
I donít work for any Air Force anymore, but I think/thought BV works for the one in question.
I am still a serving officer in HMís RAF but my flying currently occurs in a place where, were I to shave my beard, I would literally be the only male on station with a clean face.

As for the mask seal, I have not had any problems so far. The jet will helpfully tell us if our mask seal is not complete and the highest I routinely fly is the mid 20ís anyway.

BV
Bob Viking is offline  
Old 26th Mar 2021, 08:41
  #47 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: The Whyte House
Age: 95
Posts: 1,966
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
A neatly trimmed goatee would solve the mask sealing issue.
Willard Whyte is offline  
Old 26th Mar 2021, 09:09
  #48 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: East Sussex
Posts: 1,074
Received 16 Likes on 6 Posts
Originally Posted by Lomon
Join the 21st century!

If the RAF is to survive the next 100 years it needs to accept the need to change.
Women CAN get pregnant, have a baby and still contribute to the service. (Shock horror they can even fly aircraft and join the RAF Regiment)
Being gay does not make you an automatic target for blackmail.
Having a beard does not instantly make you scruffy (The design of our current PCS and the insistence that a short jacket should be tucked in like a shirt does)
Not being a straight white male does not make you incapable of doing the job.
Trying to justify a pathetic woke agenda with appeals to the Gregorian calendar is something that gets right up my nose! It is a lazy form of debate which can be used by both sides. Monarchy, Democracy and Electricity all pre-date the year 2000, shall we discard them based on their antiquity?

Like everyone in the Service, there are good and bad examples. I knew some shocking women who, on returning to work after maternity, used every trick in the book to avoid deployments. I knew militant homosexuals who used the change in policy to bash and threaten colleagues who voiced legitimate criticism of the government's pandering to the gay lobby and the public money spent on appeasing them.

The RAF can survive if it does what it did best. Be a purely meritocratic institution which never needed a PR consultant to tell it how to look and what to say.
Training Risky is offline  
Old 26th Mar 2021, 13:29
  #49 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: May 2011
Location: London
Posts: 476
Received 16 Likes on 9 Posts
I believe those officers that are balding are allowed to shave their head, whilst those of us who have full heads of hair are not allowed.
I'm sure they'd swap with you.
Mil-26Man is offline  
Old 26th Mar 2021, 19:18
  #50 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: not scotland
Posts: 338
Received 12 Likes on 9 Posts
Originally Posted by Haraka
Hence my "reap what you sow" implication. Pandering to ever multiplying "Wokeness" current pressures on the Service, whilst sidestepping key issues, is a dangerous path to follow in the longer term.
Haraka, where and when did you serve? Just so we know what a warrior you were without a beard.

Many of the people I know, sporting beards, have done multiple operational tours being shot at or risking being shot down. What exactly is their wokeness?
Naval aviators have been doing the same for much longer.
Other than demonstrating manliness by being clean shaven or having things stuck up the anus, what else qualifies?
The ďwokeĒ RAF that I belong to and have for 20 years, on Ops constantly, would beg to differ.
Toadstool is online now  
Old 27th Mar 2021, 00:00
  #51 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Oct 1999
Location: Den Haag
Age: 57
Posts: 6,029
Received 244 Likes on 143 Posts
Originally Posted by Toadstool
Haraka, where and when did you serve? Just so we know what a warrior you were without a beard.

Many of the people I know, sporting beards, have done multiple operational tours being shot at or risking being shot down. What exactly is their wokeness?
Naval aviators have been doing the same for much longer.
Other than demonstrating manliness by being clean shaven or having things stuck up the anus, what else qualifies?
The ďwokeĒ RAF that I belong to and have for 20 years, on Ops constantly, would beg to differ.
Indeed. Two of my close current colleagues have the MC, and one the CGC, all earned whilst sporting beards.

212man is offline  
Old 27th Mar 2021, 10:23
  #52 (permalink)  
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: South East of Penge
Age: 74
Posts: 1,772
Received 3 Likes on 3 Posts
One reason for anonymity here is to avoid revelation of contributors' Service histories.
I'll leave it at that.

Last edited by Haraka; 27th Mar 2021 at 12:21.
Haraka is offline  
Old 27th Mar 2021, 10:30
  #53 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: May 2006
Location: Around
Posts: 1,151
Received 93 Likes on 40 Posts
Haraka Still haven't come up with a good reason not to allow beards though have you?
downsizer is offline  
Old 27th Mar 2021, 10:42
  #54 (permalink)  
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: South East of Penge
Age: 74
Posts: 1,772
Received 3 Likes on 3 Posts
Originally Posted by downsizer
Haraka Still haven't come up with a good reason not to allow beards though have you?
I have no problems and never have had with Beards per se
Do note that this thread has taken off at a tangent and ignored my implied concerns regarding the future implications of this type of decision beyond the obvious......

Haraka is offline  
Old 27th Mar 2021, 12:56
  #55 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: May 2006
Location: Around
Posts: 1,151
Received 93 Likes on 40 Posts
And what are the future implications?
downsizer is offline  
Old 27th Mar 2021, 13:06
  #56 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Aug 2018
Location: Home
Posts: 32
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Recommend a deeper look into identity politics, no-platforming, neo-marxism etc. IMHO something darker lurks behind the common decency of equality, which we should all expect.
Arthur1815 is offline  
Old 27th Mar 2021, 13:11
  #57 (permalink)  
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: South East of Penge
Age: 74
Posts: 1,772
Received 3 Likes on 3 Posts
Originally Posted by Arthur1815
Recommend a deeper look into identity politics, no-platforming, neo-marxism etc. IMHO something darker lurks behind the common decency of equality, which we should all expect.
Thanks Arthur !,
I was getting worried,
Haraka is offline  
Old 27th Mar 2021, 20:55
  #58 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Well, Lincolnshire
Age: 69
Posts: 1,101
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Ah well, we move with the times. 'Talking Armpit's' are now the in thing. Let's hope to God the RAF doesn't go down the earring (for men) route. The thought of CAS in diamante........
taxydual is offline  
Old 27th Mar 2021, 21:15
  #59 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: UK
Age: 53
Posts: 0
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Originally Posted by taxydual
Ah well, we move with the times. 'Talking Armpit's' are now the in thing. Let's hope to God the RAF doesn't go down the earring (for men) route. The thought of CAS in diamante........
If women can wear certain earrings, then why not men? Itís not my thing, but I donít see what the big deal is other than some peoples opinions on the way the world should look.
highflyer40 is offline  
Old 27th Mar 2021, 21:35
  #60 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: Baston
Posts: 3,094
Received 329 Likes on 159 Posts
Originally Posted by highflyer40
If women can wear certain earrings, then why not men? Itís not my thing, but I donít see what the big deal is other than some peoples opinions on the way the world should look.

Nothing new under the sun.
30 years ago a Met. Observer of mature years, solo on night shift, used to cross-dress when he arrived at 2200, did the shift as a tart, and changed to go home to his wife and family..
Until the Staish popped in for an update, as it were..
langleybaston is offline  

Thread Tools
Search this Thread

Contact Us - Archive - Advertising - Cookie Policy - Privacy Statement - Terms of Service - Do Not Sell or Share My Personal Information

Copyright © 2023 MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands. All rights reserved. Use of this site indicates your consent to the Terms of Use.