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Beards in the RAF

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Beards in the RAF

Old 25th Mar 2021, 17:18
  #41 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Ewan Whosearmy View Post
212Man, not sure that Bob works for the same Air Force as you...

On a practical note, does the beard interfere with the fit of the mask, especially if pressure breathing is active?
Not completely, if the attached photo of BV's Doppelgänger is anything to go by https://www.nationalgeographic.com/h...s-alphabet-spd

Jack
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Old 25th Mar 2021, 17:21
  #42 (permalink)  
 
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I was only young, yer honour!
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Old 25th Mar 2021, 17:22
  #43 (permalink)  
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Originally Posted by Bob Viking View Post
I hear you about wokeness...D&I training days are another great example of something that upsets a lot of people (especially older males). However, from listening to the conversations of some people that I serve alongside it is clear that we have a way to go before they are no longer required.
BV
BV, very true and very astute. I experience this constantly. Not living in Blighty just now, I can only conclude from internet and media studies the the phrase "Woke" is a term meaning: "Someone has called me on my crass and self-centered views".
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Old 25th Mar 2021, 19:42
  #44 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Ewan Whosearmy View Post
212Man, not sure that Bob works for the same Air Force as you...

On a practical note, does the beard interfere with the fit of the mask, especially if pressure breathing is active?
I don’t work for any Air Force anymore, but I think/thought BV works for the one in question.
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Old 25th Mar 2021, 20:28
  #45 (permalink)  
 
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I must admit that I am not a fan of beards, but then some of my mates have them due to their religious beliefs, so it is hard to say ‘no beards’ when they get to have one due to their imaginary friends. So, it’s either all or nothing, so I think it is indefensible to say no to some and yes to others.

Here is an interesting scientific study into firefighter’s masks and the effects of beards on their performance: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3564146/

Now, what is often interesting whenever your life depends on a good seal - fire fighting, needing pressure or 100% oxygen breathing or in CBRN then it is amazing how quickly the razors come out!!! If I held the risk of Aircrew flying with beards, where even some of the masks have stamped inside them that beards will lessen their effectiveness, then there is no way, coupled to studies like the above, that I would authorise beards for Aircrew flying in aircraft with oxygen systems.
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Old 25th Mar 2021, 20:55
  #46 (permalink)  
 
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Young......?

You weren't "young" then, MOG.

Just younger than you are now!!

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Old 25th Mar 2021, 23:04
  #47 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Haraka View Post
Hence my "reap what you sow" implication. Pandering to ever multiplying "Wokeness" current pressures on the Service, whilst sidestepping key issues, is a dangerous path to follow in the longer term.
Join the 21st century!

If the RAF is to survive the next 100 years it needs to accept the need to change.
Women CAN get pregnant, have a baby and still contribute to the service. (Shock horror they can even fly aircraft and join the RAF Regiment)
Being gay does not make you an automatic target for blackmail.
Having a beard does not instantly make you scruffy (The design of our current PCS and the insistence that a short jacket should be tucked in like a shirt does)
Not being a straight white male does not make you incapable of doing the job.

Have you seen the state of people's hair at the moment? Long and unkempt, or uneven from trying to DIY cut it.... but that is currently the law of the land. The RAF has accepted that, and do you know what? Despite a global pandemic, despite people being ill, despite not being able to go on leave to visit family, despite not meeting new born nephews, nieces and cousins, despite not being able to say goodbye to loved ones - those scruffy, unkempt men and women (white, black, straight, gay, cis, trans or bearded) we have still managed to introduce new platforms and capabilities, police the skies of the UK and the Balkans and even continue operations in the middle East.
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Old 26th Mar 2021, 02:53
  #48 (permalink)  
 
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From conversation with aircrew down at MPA last year there seemed to be a belief that the seal around the top of the nose was of more concern than the beard, but after a jet had to descend rapidly owing to oxygen issues a high rank in charge decided that beards were unsafe without having much scientific evidence either way so banned the fast fleet from growing them (albeit keeping the usual exemptions). Others in charge decided solidarity was necessary so rolled the same rule across slower aircraft.
How much is true I'm not sure but this tour there are fewer beards than there were last year when the rule had just changed, I miss the weekly beard parade with the CWO inspecting each beard for compliance...
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Old 26th Mar 2021, 04:02
  #49 (permalink)  
 
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212man

Originally Posted by 212man View Post
I don’t work for any Air Force anymore, but I think/thought BV works for the one in question.
I am still a serving officer in HM’s RAF but my flying currently occurs in a place where, were I to shave my beard, I would literally be the only male on station with a clean face.

As for the mask seal, I have not had any problems so far. The jet will helpfully tell us if our mask seal is not complete and the highest I routinely fly is the mid 20’s anyway.

BV
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Old 26th Mar 2021, 08:41
  #50 (permalink)  
 
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A neatly trimmed goatee would solve the mask sealing issue.
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Old 26th Mar 2021, 09:09
  #51 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Lomon View Post
Join the 21st century!

If the RAF is to survive the next 100 years it needs to accept the need to change.
Women CAN get pregnant, have a baby and still contribute to the service. (Shock horror they can even fly aircraft and join the RAF Regiment)
Being gay does not make you an automatic target for blackmail.
Having a beard does not instantly make you scruffy (The design of our current PCS and the insistence that a short jacket should be tucked in like a shirt does)
Not being a straight white male does not make you incapable of doing the job.
Trying to justify a pathetic woke agenda with appeals to the Gregorian calendar is something that gets right up my nose! It is a lazy form of debate which can be used by both sides. Monarchy, Democracy and Electricity all pre-date the year 2000, shall we discard them based on their antiquity?

Like everyone in the Service, there are good and bad examples. I knew some shocking women who, on returning to work after maternity, used every trick in the book to avoid deployments. I knew militant homosexuals who used the change in policy to bash and threaten colleagues who voiced legitimate criticism of the government's pandering to the gay lobby and the public money spent on appeasing them.

The RAF can survive if it does what it did best. Be a purely meritocratic institution which never needed a PR consultant to tell it how to look and what to say.
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Old 26th Mar 2021, 11:32
  #52 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Willard Whyte View Post
A neatly trimmed goatee would solve the mask sealing issue.
Also, it would allow those of us who seem to grow sparse pubes on our cheeks instead of full beards the option of having a beard. Current policy is discrimatory based on genetics. Similar to those that are balding...technically, I believe those officers that are balding are allowed to shave their head, whilst those of us who have full heads of hair are not allowed.
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Old 26th Mar 2021, 13:29
  #53 (permalink)  
 
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I believe those officers that are balding are allowed to shave their head, whilst those of us who have full heads of hair are not allowed.
I'm sure they'd swap with you.
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Old 26th Mar 2021, 19:18
  #54 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Haraka View Post
Hence my "reap what you sow" implication. Pandering to ever multiplying "Wokeness" current pressures on the Service, whilst sidestepping key issues, is a dangerous path to follow in the longer term.
Haraka, where and when did you serve? Just so we know what a warrior you were without a beard.

Many of the people I know, sporting beards, have done multiple operational tours being shot at or risking being shot down. What exactly is their wokeness?
Naval aviators have been doing the same for much longer.
Other than demonstrating manliness by being clean shaven or having things stuck up the anus, what else qualifies?
The “woke” RAF that I belong to and have for 20 years, on Ops constantly, would beg to differ.
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Old 27th Mar 2021, 00:00
  #55 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Toadstool View Post
Haraka, where and when did you serve? Just so we know what a warrior you were without a beard.

Many of the people I know, sporting beards, have done multiple operational tours being shot at or risking being shot down. What exactly is their wokeness?
Naval aviators have been doing the same for much longer.
Other than demonstrating manliness by being clean shaven or having things stuck up the anus, what else qualifies?
The “woke” RAF that I belong to and have for 20 years, on Ops constantly, would beg to differ.
Indeed. Two of my close current colleagues have the MC, and one the CGC, all earned whilst sporting beards.

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Old 27th Mar 2021, 10:23
  #56 (permalink)  
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One reason for anonymity here is to avoid revelation of contributors' Service histories.
I'll leave it at that.

Last edited by Haraka; 27th Mar 2021 at 12:21.
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Old 27th Mar 2021, 10:30
  #57 (permalink)  
 
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Haraka Still haven't come up with a good reason not to allow beards though have you?
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Old 27th Mar 2021, 10:42
  #58 (permalink)  
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Originally Posted by downsizer View Post
Haraka Still haven't come up with a good reason not to allow beards though have you?
I have no problems and never have had with Beards per se
Do note that this thread has taken off at a tangent and ignored my implied concerns regarding the future implications of this type of decision beyond the obvious......

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Old 27th Mar 2021, 12:56
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And what are the future implications?
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Old 27th Mar 2021, 13:06
  #60 (permalink)  
 
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Recommend a deeper look into identity politics, no-platforming, neo-marxism etc. IMHO something darker lurks behind the common decency of equality, which we should all expect.
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