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The F-35 thread, Mk II

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The F-35 thread, Mk II

Old 28th Dec 2023, 21:01
  #741 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by BBadanov
Yep, kick the can down the road and have a Review. Saves committing any funds, that is what this Govt is doing repeatedly. Look at the surface ships. Yep AUKUS subs are great, no money to be spent yet.
The reason for 'can kicking' is made clear I think. There is an AUKUS ALMIGHTY thread here: AUKUS - PPRuNe Forums & IIRC Oz has spent / contributed BILLIONs so far. Recent news: 15 Dec 2023: https://www.minister.defence.gov.au/...tates-congress

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Old 29th Dec 2023, 11:04
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BBadanov While it could be argued. That considering a 6th gen replacement for the FA-18F and not ordering the 4th squadron last March. Or 2025 decision, as planned. Is pushing it down the road. You are misrepresenting the facts and I believe you are coming at it from a political viewpoint. Sky news?

Spaz has covered the other investments. One example: We don't "soldier on" with the FA-18f and growler. They are being updated to block lll, at significant cost. In truth, we can't scrap them till F-35 block 4 is done. We need the maritime capability.
If we don't go ahead with more F-35. I personally don't see a potential split fleet of 5 and 6th gen, to be a bad thing.

https://www.theguardian.com/australi...ustralia-aukus
The federal government has squirrelled away more than $30bn to lift defence funding over the coming decade, as the Aukus project helps drive spending increases.Defence funding as a share of the economy is expected to grow from 2.04% now to 2.3% in a decade’s time...This will mean defence funding reaches 2.3% of gross domestic product at the end of this 10-year period. The government says this is 0.2% higher than the trajectory Labor inherited from the Coalition.

Spending announced so far includes $19bn over the coming four years “for nuclear-powered submarines, long-range strike capabilities, strengthened northern bases, workforce growth and retention, innovation, and regional partnerships”.

Last edited by golder; 29th Dec 2023 at 19:40.
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Old 4th Jan 2024, 22:38
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FRUM (John): US Navy tests mirror-coated F-35C on ‘Abe’ Combat Aircraft Journal Feb 2024 Vol25 No2
https://guardian.ng/life/the-remote-south-pacific-island-where-they-worship-planes-2


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Old 6th Jan 2024, 04:22
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Originally Posted by golder
We don't "soldier on" with the FA-18f and growler. They are being updated to block lll, at significant cost. In truth, we can't scrap them till F-35 block 4 is done. We need the maritime capability...."
$600 Million Contract Secures Local Jobs and Keeps Australians Safe 06 Jan 2023
$600 Million Contract Secures Local Jobs and Keeps Australians Safe | Defence Ministers
"More than 350 local Queensland jobs will be secured under a new $600 million contract to sustain and upgrade the F/A-18F Super Hornet and EA-18G Growler fleets for the Royal Australian Air Force. The five-year contract extension, awarded to Boeing Defence Australia, will see support for the Super Hornet and Growler programs continue until 2030, ensuring the long-term retention of a highly skilled expert workforce at RAAF Base Amberley. Australians working in the Defence industry will oversee the engineering, maintenance and project management for the sustainment and upgrade of the fleets...."
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Old 6th Jan 2024, 17:34
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05 Jan 2024 https://aviationweek.com/defense-spa...xpansion-plans
"...Copenhagen set out plans on Jan. 5 for a series of analyses looking at a range of capability sets in the Danish armed forces, with the F-35 fleet [of 27] a key area of focus.... Recent media reporting in Denmark has suggested that the Danish F-35 fleet could grow by an additional 10 aircraft..."
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Old 6th Jan 2024, 19:06
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What sort of conflict, war are these aircraft designed for? They are so eye wateringly expensive and time consuming to make that should any major conflict break out I can see smaller operators rapidly running out of time and money trying to replace them. The UK's fleet being a case in point.
Unless of course their technology negates any of them being lost.
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Old 6th Jan 2024, 21:10
  #747 (permalink)  
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Originally Posted by DogTailRed2
What sort of conflict, war are these aircraft designed for? They are so eye wateringly expensive and time consuming to make that should any major conflict break out I can see smaller operators rapidly running out of time and money trying to replace them. The UK's fleet being a case in point.
Unless of course their technology negates any of them being lost.
Still cheaper than developing another aircraft of any use by yourself. Witness how expensive F-15EX is (albeit in the early production stages)
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Old 6th Jan 2024, 22:23
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Originally Posted by DogTailRed2
What sort of conflict, war are these aircraft designed for? They are so eye wateringly expensive and time consuming to make that should any major conflict break out I can see smaller operators rapidly running out of time and money trying to replace them. The UK's fleet being a case in point.
Unless of course their technology negates any of them being lost.
They are designed for a conflict where the enemy has a functioning IADS and competent air threat. Overkill for CAS in Afghanistan, but I think current world events highlight the need for countering a more capable adversary.
And yes, quality costs money.
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Old 7th Jan 2024, 00:36
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According the Swiss and Finnish comp. While being cheaper than the Rafale and Eurofighter
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Old 7th Jan 2024, 01:13
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Originally Posted by DogTailRed2
What sort of conflict, war are these aircraft designed for? They are so eye wateringly expensive........
.
I remember the exact same sentiments being expressed in the 80's when F-18 was being bought by various countries.
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Old 7th Jan 2024, 06:08
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Originally Posted by Bug
I remember the exact same sentiments being expressed in the 80's when F-18 was being bought by various countries.
in 1992 when Finland made the decision to purchase Hornets, the price difference with F16 was 12% (both acquisition cost and lifetime cost), however the hornet was more suitable for Finnish requirements.

Worth noting is that other contenders were even more expensive: the Gripen was 9% more expensive, Mirage 2000 4% and Mig29 12%. The Fulcrum also had its service costs at the level of its own: 73% more expensive to use than the Hornet and almost 95% more expensive than F16.

In the end the Hornet wasn't that expensive, as a side note the Fulcrum was more expensive than any western FJ in the competition.

Last edited by Beamr; 7th Jan 2024 at 06:28.
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Old 7th Jan 2024, 09:32
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From memory, an F-18 cost about US$40m in 1985. Now F-35A US$80m.
Just looked at cost comparison. Big Mac 1985 US$1-60, and in 2023 US$5-58.


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Old 7th Jan 2024, 09:40
  #753 (permalink)  
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Originally Posted by Bug
From memory, an F-18 cost about US$40m in 1985. Now F-35A US$80m.
Just looked at cost comparison. Big Mac 1985 US$1-60, and in 2023 US$5-58.

and the 2023 Big Mac is the same batch as the 1985 one.
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Old 7th Jan 2024, 10:28
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Originally Posted by Bug
From memory, an F-18 cost about US$40m in 1985. Now F-35A US$80m.
Just looked at cost comparison. Big Mac 1985 US$1-60, and in 2023 US$5-58.
the offer for Finland in 1992 was roughly US$33M per aircraft.
The F35 price is in the range of US$90M each.
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Old 7th Jan 2024, 21:05
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Originally Posted by Beamr
the offer for Finland in 1992 was roughly US$33M per aircraft.
The F35 price is in the range of US$90M each.
Thanks. I was going from memory on the F-18 cost, and wiki for the Big Mac comparison.
Pleasing to see the more accurate info.
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Old 8th Jan 2024, 10:20
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Originally Posted by Beamr
the offer for Finland in 1992 was roughly US$33M per aircraft.
The F35 price is in the range of US$90M each.
Of course $33M in 1992 is $71M in todays Dollars.
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Old 26th Jan 2024, 09:03
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Whats interesting is that, as recently as last month, it was being reported that their request for additional AH-64s had been refused…

https://www.eurasiantimes.com/us-say...-ah-64-apache/

Israel announced earlier today the purchase of 25 more F-35I “Adir” and 25 more F-15IA “Thunder” aircraft alongside at least an additional 12 AH-64D helicopters.

Delivery expected in 2027, however the Israeli Government is hoping that some of the deliveries may be expedited and begin within the next few months.
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Old 26th Jan 2024, 11:46
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Originally Posted by ORAC
Whats interesting is that, as recently as last month, it was being reported that their request for additional AH-64s had been refusedů

https://www.eurasiantimes.com/us-say...-ah-64-apache/
Doubtful they asked for more AH-64D helicopters, given they're not made anymore. Also, they have no F-15IA aircraft, so unlikely they asked for more. Not sure how much store I would put on that report.
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Old 26th Jan 2024, 13:25
  #759 (permalink)  
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Tell the Times of Israel, Haaretz and other Israel papers..

https://www.timesofisrael.com/israel...and-munitions/

“…
Defense sources told The Times of Israel later Thursday that Israel’s plans to procure a new squadron of 25 F35i stealth fighter jets, a squadron of 25 F-15IA fighter jets — the Israeli variant of the advanced F-15EX — and a squadron of 12 Apache helicopters were advanced during the discussions.”…

https://www.israelhayom.com/2024/01/...sson-from-war/
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Old 26th Jan 2024, 13:56
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“…Defense sources told The Times of Israel later Thursday that Israel’s plans to procure a new squadron of 25 F35i stealth fighter jets, a squadron of 25 F-15IA fighter jets — the Israeli variant of the advanced F-15EX — and a squadron of 12 Apache helicopters were advanced during the discussions.”…
Thanks, that's not the same as...
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Israel announced earlier today the purchase of 25 more F-35I “Adir” and 25 more F-15IA “Thunder” aircraft alongside at least an additional 12 AH-64D helicopters.
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