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The F-35 thread, Mk II

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The F-35 thread, Mk II

Old 15th Nov 2023, 02:58
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Originally Posted by SpazSinbad
Perhaps some more info about F-35B trials PWLS recently and perhaps IZUMO next year:
"...Trials were also carried out with the F-35Bs carrying the maximum load of 22,000 lb, according to a Royal Navy release on Oct. 20, with a PAX ITF F-35B being loaded with a combination of inert 500-pound Paveway IV laser-guided bombs and inert 1,000-pound Paveways."
You'd think the RN would be able to get the facts right for their own press release. The F35B is incapable of carrying 22,000lb of stores (external plus internal). The article states a pair of 1000lb class PW2s internally and 4 PW4s on the wings. Add a pair of ASRAAM and 2 120Ds and you have a stores weight of approx 6-7000lbs. Now maybe they meant to say "fuel and weapons load of 22,000lbs". Details matter in this game...
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Old 15th Nov 2023, 03:57
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Easy to obsfucate details with the F-35 because seldom is any detail given deliberately for opsec reasons I guess. Perhaps I am OBSfukatin' Meanwhile JPO facefook website says this:



And in a galaxy far far away in 2001 this info was used to help design said F-35 variants to be ship compatible:
https://apps.dtic.mil/dtic/tr/fulltext/u2/a399988.pdf



OLD RAF F-35B info link no longer wurks for image below so it won't be posted.



Last edited by SpazSinbad; 15th Nov 2023 at 04:21.
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Old 15th Nov 2023, 04:39
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GIF from an LM briefing PDF about F-35 Weapon Integration: https://arc.aiaa.org/doi/pdf/10.2514/6.2018-3370



F-35A beastly model loadout: E7vju7iXMAAb9VV (900×1200) (twimg.com)



Last edited by SpazSinbad; 15th Nov 2023 at 04:53.
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Old 15th Nov 2023, 04:58
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Just for textual LAFFs? Roles F-35B Lightning II "UK F-35B maximum weapon payload of 6 Paveway IV, 2 AIM-120C AMRAAM, 2 AIM-132 ASRAAM & a missionised 25mm gun pod": http://www.raf.mod.uk/equipment/f35j...ikefighter.cfm

ETS winter 2012_13 LIGHTNING STRIKES “...Onboard the Queen Elizabeth aircraft carriers, the aircraft would take off at its maximum weight of nearly 27 tonnes using a UK-developed ski-jump,...” (2204.62lbs = 1 tonne 59,535lbs = 27 tonnes) [Wing Commander Hackett explained] ETS Winter 2012-13
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Old 15th Nov 2023, 05:43
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Originally Posted by SpazSinbad
GIF from an LM briefing PDF about F-35 Weapon Integration: https://arc.aiaa.org/doi/pdf/10.2514/6.2018-3370
Good to see that they have made a separate graphic. Than the combined A,B,C "over 18,000lb" Where the F-35B has 18,350lb. When the A,C was always a payload of 22,350lb.
Max hardpoint payload and the max weapon payload will be a bit less, because of pylons
It has caused some debate amongst the Wiki crusaders

On a side note. The B-21 is reported to have a payload of 20-30,000lb.

Last edited by golder; 15th Nov 2023 at 08:12.
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Old 15th Nov 2023, 10:16
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I've always been very suspicious of the 22,000 lb (and even the 18,000 lb) payload claim for the F-35. The recently disclosed USAF F-35 vs A-10 report says it has 4 air-to-ground external and 2 internal stations (there are also 2 air-to-air stations) for 4,000 lb. Given it says the A-10 can carry 16,000 lb on 11 stations, you'd have to assume a like-for-like comparison in this table, rather than a per pylon figure for the F-35 and an overall figure for the A-10.


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Old 15th Nov 2023, 19:23
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Then the current JPO claim of 15,000 lbs weapons payload for the F-35B looks OK to you?
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Old 15th Nov 2023, 22:38
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Originally Posted by SpazSinbad
Then the current JPO claim of 15,000 lbs weapons payload for the F-35B looks OK to you?
What the aircraft can be capable of carrying vs what it can currently carry are two very different things. Either way, the RN press release claim of 22K is entirely inaccurate.
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Old 16th Nov 2023, 00:46
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22,000 refers to the F-35A and C. The F-35B is 18,350 payload or as said a 15,000 weapon payload.
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Old 16th Nov 2023, 03:45
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Originally Posted by golder
22,000 refers to the F-35A and C. The F-35B is 18,350 payload or as said a 15,000 weapon payload.
Latest RAF F-35B info says same: ABOUT THE F-35B LIGHTNING
https://www.raf.mod.uk/aircraft/lightning-f35b/
Maximum take-off weight: around 60,000lb (27,216kg)
Armament: typically two AAMs and two bombs carried internally, with optional 25mm gun pod and underwing pylons enabling stores carriage up to 15,000lb (6,800kg)
____________________________

http://www.raf.mod.uk/equipment/f35j...ikefighter.cfm
OLD RAF Info (link no work) UK F-35B maximum weapon payload of
6 Paveway IV = 225 Kg x 6 = 3,000 lbs
2 AIM-120C AMRAAM = 710 lbs
2 AIM-132 ASRAAM = 390 lbs
a missionised 25mm gun pod = 800 lbs (my guess)
total 4,900 lbs
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Old 16th Nov 2023, 04:45
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Photo essay: UK Carrier Strike Group completes second phase of 2023 deployment
NOVEMBER 15, 2023 https://www.navylookout.com/photo-es...23-deployment/

"...Exercise Atlantic Trident was planned to test what the RAF calls ‘Agile Combat Deployment’. In a very long overdue recognition that the UK mainland could be targeted by cruise missiles, the first step are being made to operate aircraft dispersed away from their primary bases. AT-23 involved US F-35As, French Airforce and Navy Rafale jets, and RAF Typhoons responding to a simulated attack on their base. The jets conducted missions together but were informed mid-air that airfields had been denied and they were to relocate to RAF Leeming, Yorkshire.

After successfully relocating to a remote corner of the airbase, they established secure communications with HMS Queen Elizabeth and HMS Diamond to activate F-35Bs on the carrier . The jets provided support and connected with Command and Control Centres on the ground and in the air to receive tasking orders; including counter-air missions to protect the Carrier Support Group.

Typhoons switched their role mid-air from patroling to air-to-surface attack. The F-35Bs stayed on mission for 4 hours by ‘hot-pitting’ on the carrier – to refuel and simulate rearming with engines running. Jets remained airborne by being air-to-air refuelled by French MRTT, US KC135 and RAF Voyager aircraft....

...HMS Queen Elizabeth has now returned to Portsmouth having covered 13,000 nautical miles and achieving 944 aircraft deck landings in the 6-week period. She remains at high readiness..."

Jets operating from HMS Queen Elizabeth participate in UK, US and French Exercise Atlantic Trident

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Old 22nd Nov 2023, 07:28
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https://www.defensenews.com/air/2023...-delivery-fix/

Upgraded F-35s fly with partial software as DOD hunts for delivery fix

WASHINGTON — The first production F-35 Joint Strike Fighter with an early, incomplete version of the software powering a key upgrade was flown last week at Lockheed Martin’s Fort Worth, Texas, facility, the company told Defense News.

The Pentagon’s F-35 Joint Program Office is considering whether a strategy of loading interim versions of the Technology Refresh 3 software into the latest F-35s might provide a way to end a months-long delivery halt, and allow the government to start accepting the latest versions of the fighter.

Technology Refresh 3, or TR-3, is the name for a batch of hardware and software upgrades to the newest F-35s, and include better displays, computer memory and processing power. The TR-3 upgrades are necessary to pave the way for a more expansive modernization, known as Block 4, which will allow the F-35 to carry more long-range precision weapons and improve its electronic warfare capabilities and target recognition.

TR-3 has been stymied by software problems and difficulties integrating it with the new hardware, and its schedule has slipped significantly. It was originally expected to arrive in April but has now slipped until well into 2024, perhaps as late as next June.

Lockheed first started rolling jets with the TR-3 hardware off its Fort Worth production line around the end of July. But because the software was not finished, these fighters could not be taken for the check flights necessary for the Defense Department to accept them.

While the Pentagon has halted deliveries, Lockheed has continued building new F-35s with TR-3 hardware and then storing them at Fort Worth. The JPO refused to tell Defense News how many planes are now parked there, citing security concerns, but Lockheed Martin can build roughly a dozen F-35s per month.…..
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Old 22nd Nov 2023, 19:56
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Anything in the way of ordinance you carry externally is going to effectively negate the 'stealth' characteristics of the F-35 (they might be able to come up with some sort of conformal external fuel tank that doesn't significantly affect the radar cross-section, but bombs and missiles would have to somehow go inside that conformal structure to avoid killing stealth). So regardless of the max bomb load weight limit - if have to carry some of it externally you've just effectively limited it to non-contested airspace.
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Old 23rd Nov 2023, 09:31
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true but historically that's where it'll do 95% of its fighting...................

Just about EVERY fighter started out as nice and clean and then people started hanging vast amounts of really useful stuff on the outside

You always have the option to go back to stealth if you have to
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Old 24th Nov 2023, 08:37
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Originally Posted by Asturias56
true but historically that's where it'll do 95% of its fighting...................

Just about EVERY fighter started out as nice and clean and then people started hanging vast amounts of really useful stuff on the outside

You always have the option to go back to stealth if you have to
Not a stab at Asturia - but for anyone to condemn the F-35 as being limited to “uncontested airspace” when carrying external weapons is… interesting… given it implies that every 4th Gen platform has that limitation, 100% of the time.
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Old 24th Nov 2023, 10:01
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Plenty of scenarios where external loads would be carried. Examples off the top of my head.

Scenario 1 - External SOW to be dropped before entering radar cover, external ARM to take-out any high threat emitters to protect follow up follow up attacks and HVA, then penetrate once clean to take out further AD assets with internal PGMs.

Scenario 2 - AD flight of 4 on sweep for enemy HVA., pair up-threat with 4 internal AMRAAM, second pair fully loaded with 4 external AMRAAM + 4 internal in 50-60nm trail. Lead pair engage any HVA fighter cover which commits against rear pair and provides weapons guidance for external missiles from rear pair until they join the fight having shed their external load.
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Old 1st Dec 2023, 13:27
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Maintainers at Hill Air Force Base in Utah are stitching two damaged F-35As into one fully operational aircraft

The front fuselage section of AF-211 (nose gear separation) is being replaced with that of AF-27 (engine fire).

https://www.dvidshub.net/news/458844...ative-endeavor




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Old 3rd Dec 2023, 20:29
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This is just absolutely crazy for a military fighter.

South Korean Air Force decided to retire its F-35A Lightning II fighter jet after a bird strike in January 2022. The cost of repairing the aircraft was estimated at 140 billion won ($107.6 million), which exceeds the cost of purchasing a new F-35A aircraft.
In January 2022, a South Korean F-35 pilot was compelled to execute a “belly landing” following a bird hit during a training session that resulted in an avionics system malfunction.

At the time, the ROKAF revealed that a 10-kilogram eagle hit the jet in the left air intake of the aircraft.

This accident led to the penetration of a bulkhead into the weapons room, damaging hydraulic duct and power supply cables. This interfered with the operation of the landing gear. Consequently, the aircraft had to belly land, but the pilot was unhurt.

This unforeseen incident triggered deliberations on repair expenses, ultimately culminating in the decision to retire the aircraft due to financial constraints and heightened security concerns, reported South Korea’s Yonhap News Agency on December 1.


The report said a detailed analysis involving the aircraft’s manufacturer, Lockheed Martin, revealed alarming damage to nearly 300 crucial components, encompassing critical areas such as the airframe, structure, engine, and control and navigation systems.

The severity of the damage raised concerns regarding both the exorbitant costs of repair, estimated at around 140 billion won (equivalent to US$107.6 million), and the extensive time required to restore the aircraft to operational status.

The expense of repairs surpasses the original acquisition cost of the F-35A, initially estimated at 110 billion won. Considering this financial gap and the extended repair duration, the Air Force deemed retirement a more practical choice.


https://www.eurasiantimes.com/incapa...ired-from-the/
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Old 4th Dec 2023, 08:44
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From the latest review of the UK National Equipment plan

F35-B combat aircraft third front-line squadron (Royal Air Force) The investment cost of developing a third front-line squadron increases the capital budget shortfall by £0.1 billion between 2023-24 and 2026-27, and this option is not accompanied by funding of £0.4 billion needed to operate the squadron.
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Old 4th Dec 2023, 15:43
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Originally Posted by ORAC
Maintainers at Hill Air Force Base in Utah are stitching two damaged F-35As into one fully operational aircraft
Franken Fighter is likely going to be that bird's nickname.
I wonder: which of the two original Aircraft serial numbers will it use, or will it get a fresh one?
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