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Two tankers attacked in Gulf of Oman

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Two tankers attacked in Gulf of Oman

Old 15th Jun 2019, 12:35
  #61 (permalink)  
 
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They have one of the quietest submarines in the world built by the Russians, where they could have struck a tanker with a high chance of nobody knowing... but instead they decide to place and then remove above-water level mines in full view, while being filmed by a UCAV?
It doesn't add up.
I'd bet a year's salary that Iranian Special Forces did NOT plant or remove those mines.
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Old 15th Jun 2019, 12:49
  #62 (permalink)  
 
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I for one couldn't understand why they would target a Japanese vessel while hosting the countries PM, not exactly the way to cement future relationships.
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Old 15th Jun 2019, 16:25
  #63 (permalink)  
 
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Strange that Corbyn can’t even tell us whether he’s for or against Brexit yet he can find time to speak up in favour of Iran’s peaceful intentions.
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Old 15th Jun 2019, 17:01
  #64 (permalink)  
 
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Digression: Corbyn is for Brexit in the north, and remain in the south
Simples.
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Old 15th Jun 2019, 17:05
  #65 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by dook View Post
So if Iran is not responsible, who is ?

Two plus two equals four.
oh wow, what an intelligent post and deduction......maybe stop watching your stupid tv for a day or 2.
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Old 15th Jun 2019, 17:15
  #66 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by NutLoose View Post
I for one couldn't understand why they would target a Japanese vessel while hosting the countries PM, not exactly the way to cement future relationships.
Or, that they would attack a tanker owned by a certain Norwegian businessman, who has a long history of doing business with Iran. Fredriksen made his fortune during the Iran–Iraq War in the 1980s, when his tankers picked up oil at great risk and huge profits. As described by his biographer, "he was the lifeline to the Ayatollah." Fredriksen would later become the world's largest tanker owner, with more than seventy oil tankers and major interests in oil rigs and fish farming. His fleet is dominated by costly double-hulled, environmentally safer tankers https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Fredriksen


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Old 15th Jun 2019, 17:28
  #67 (permalink)  
 
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Rogue actors, whether ‘Iran’s Other Government’ or whoever, are IMO unlikely to explore Google to find who owns what. ‘They’ just desire impact and chaos.
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Old 15th Jun 2019, 18:39
  #68 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by MPN11 View Post
Rogue actors, whether ‘Iran’s Other Government’ or whoever, are IMO unlikely to explore Google to find who owns what. ‘They’ just desire impact and chaos.
There are many buisnesses who desire impact and chaos as they make super profits from it. Often these are acting with "unofficial" state actors.
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Old 16th Jun 2019, 02:11
  #69 (permalink)  
 
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Who profits from this attack.....

I suspect the Saudis - there is NO benefit to Iran, it's too amateurish for the Israelis or US intelligence

I'd like to see some more of the "clear evidence" that it was Iranian - some pictures/radar tracks showing Iranian based fast craft hauling alongside these tankers at (?at night?) and placing mines on them. Damn hard to do with frogmen if they are underway

The fact that the Iranians were quickly on the scene is no surprise - they are the closest coastline and according to the USN timeline it was over an hour from the first Mayday to them arriving
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Old 16th Jun 2019, 06:32
  #70 (permalink)  
 
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Actually looking at the height of the "limpet mine" above the water and the report of "missiles" by one of the crew I wonder if we're looking at a drone attack here??
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Old 16th Jun 2019, 06:52
  #71 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by NutLoose View Post
I for one couldn't understand why they would target a Japanese vessel while hosting the countries PM, not exactly the way to cement future relationships.
Because that’s the best evidence (along with the Japanese tanker company CEO disputing the US’s version of events) that the Iranian government was not behind these attacks. They may be hardliners but they’re not morons.
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Old 16th Jun 2019, 10:59
  #72 (permalink)  
 
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Why did the Iranians attempt to shoot down the Reaper Drone that responded to the vessels after the attack on them?

The vessels were in International waters thus the Drone was as well.

Why was the crew of the one tanker detained by the Iranians?

What is it the Iranians are trying to hide?

Why did the Iranians put out a propaganda video declaring they had sunk Israeli and American vessels?

Why do you not question the Iranians and hold them to the same standard you do the Americans?
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Old 16th Jun 2019, 15:46
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Originally Posted by SASless View Post
Why did the Iranians attempt to shoot down the Reaper Drone that responded to the vessels after the attack on them?
https://www.military.com/daily-news/...-official.html

Prior it appears plus a drone coming close to a naval vessel will get shot down / warned off. USN will do the same thing.

Opposite site of "A" story is US drone was providing targeting info for someone else to attack the tankers and there to photgraph it.

Are US drones following "every" tanker that is transiting Straits of Hormuz or is it very selective based on direct orders from eleswhere. Would be interesting on seeing where the paper trail is leading.

The vessels were in International waters thus the Drone was as well.
So was the Iran Air Airbus and USS Vincennes had crossed and was operating in Iranian waters during that fateful day.

USS Sides and Vincennes saw same data, one had a competent crew who understood their duty, the other didn't and shot down a civilian airliner.

Iranian drone operating in international waters close to a US Naval vessel will get treated as hostile, should same not apply on opposite sides ?

Why was the crew of the one tanker detained by the Iranians?
Rescued, looked after and questioned as to what happened..... er same thing that USN did.

What is it the Iranians are trying to hide?
Quite possibly nothing at all, hence they doing everything to try and find WTF is going on and who is really behind it.

Why did the Iranians put out a propaganda video declaring they had sunk Israeli and American vessels?
Propoganda that someone thinks is a good idea, just because someone does it doesn't mean whole Govt agreed to it and signed off on it. Theirs is a bureaucracy and as incompetent as any.

Why do you not question the Iranians and hold them to the same standard you do the Americans?

I do and look at their motives. Someone is intent on getting a shooting match started. US Def Sec and Sec of State are the ones egging it on in recent weeks with Israel and Saudi's seeking an attack on Iran and openly requesting it.

Yet seemingly everybody has to believe that Iran wants it to start.
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Old 16th Jun 2019, 16:45
  #74 (permalink)  
 
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I do and look at their motives. Someone is intent on getting a shooting match started. US Def Sec and Sec of State are the ones egging it on in recent weeks with Israel and Saudi's seeking an attack on Iran and openly requesting it.
You seem to be reading very different news sources than I am re these Tanker attacks...all four of them.

Trump has clearly stated he wishes to have substantive negotiations with the Iranians and even asked the Japanese PM to encourage them to do so.

How is that calling for War?


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Old 16th Jun 2019, 19:04
  #75 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by SASless View Post
You seem to be reading very different news sources than I am re these Tanker attacks...all four of them.

Trump has clearly stated he wishes to have substantive negotiations with the Iranians and even asked the Japanese PM to encourage them to do so.

How is that calling for War?
Never mentioned US President, I mentioned two of his underlings Sec's Pompeo and Bolton.

Trump has been very clear that he doesn't seek a war, I believe him which is why the Deep State hate him. Pompeo and Bolton have been very clear they wish for a war, be it in Venezuala, Iran or anywhere else and yes I would firmly believe they would conspire to get US into a war in whatever way possible.

You know from when you served that Navy / Marines / Air Force / Army struggled to coordinate things because each had different agenda and plans. This is exactly the same at Govt level but the implications can be even worse for decades after.

In Russia if something happens then Putin seemingly ordered it, Iran it was Ayatollah but seemingly in US / UK etc then it wasn't the President / PM but someone else.

Fact is most leaders don't have a clue what people are getting up to and rely on being briefed properly but military / intel are quite happy to lie to their back teeth until they caught. Current National leaders wouldn't be first to have to rely on the media for information because the way it gets sanitised and blocked at verious stages of the bureaucracy.
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Old 16th Jun 2019, 21:07
  #76 (permalink)  
 
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Maybe we should look a bit further into world/area interest in this region and the benefits/losses that could occur if there is a full confrontation in the Gulf. I worked there for many years including
in the maritime recce. role, (was there at the time of the Vincennes incident and I mean there, about 100' and 6-8 miles away) and have to say ( only my own opinion,) that I was not impressed with the actions/ radio of the USN.! There appears to be too many queries/doubts as to these incidents to apportion blame at this stage. The Iranian military (?) are far more sophisticated than appears in these reports!

Not anti-American, worked there as well and have much admiration for them!

Bill
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Old 16th Jun 2019, 21:29
  #77 (permalink)  
 
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Even the crew of the Vincennes were ashamed of their actions that day.

If in doubt of that....watch the video and see their reaction when they realized the "Threat" was a civilian airliner they had shot down.

Mistakes happen for many reasons and far too many innocent folks get harmedt when that happens.

I am sure the US Navy learned some very bitter lessons from that tragedy.

One must recall the earlier successful attack on a US warship not all that long before the Vincennes Incident.

For sure someone is intent upon causing chaos and heightened tensions in the area and have succeeded somewhat.

If and when they get found out there shall be a heavy price to pay for these four attacks.

That does not excuse what happened but does help in describing the environment the ship was operating in.....the Persian Gulf and Gulf of Oman are dangerous places due to the hostile relationships of so many countries in the Region.
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Old 16th Jun 2019, 21:49
  #78 (permalink)  
 
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SASless,

Thanks for quick reply, I have no arguements with any of your comments, however, I was well aware of the environment that I was operating in - I had been doing it for 10 years!! (with three crew and some good kit) and we were all aware of the political situation at the time

Rightly or wrongly I still have the feeling that there is somewhat more to this latest *** (call it what you wish!!!) than meets the eye (or the eye of the press) and the politicians (leaders??)

Bill
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Old 18th Jun 2019, 15:10
  #79 (permalink)  
 
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Material left behind after what the US said was the removal of an unexploded limpet mine.



Blast damage on the Kokuka Courageous.







https://www.abc.net.au/news/2019-06-...?section=world
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Old 18th Jun 2019, 17:15
  #80 (permalink)  
 
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Amazingly from the pictures the boat is there for over 1 hour removing a mine, knowing full well that they will be photegraphed, other ships will come alongside and without reference to the outcome if said device exploded.

But then again it may have been a dummy placed there with a plan for it not to go off to show the world a picture certain people wanted.

Strange how with all that camera equipment and surveillance they were not able to spot the boat that the people who placed it were on. Assumming tanker was making 10-12 knots then would have needed to be a reasonably fast and competent team to have done it without anybody spotting it twice on same ship.

Unless it was always a dummy and the ships crews crew who reported a "missile" / drone attack were the ones who called it right.
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