New RAF TV advert for women
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I hear this line of thinking fairly often. Is there some sort of data or legitimate research behind this? And is it true in all industries or fields of work? Honestly, I doubt it. But hey, it sure does sound good! It's like that line I always hear "A nation's military should be representative of the nation it defends?" Again I ask 'Why?" I want my military to be able to defend the country and win wars in the most efficient and effective way possible. Again, I'm looking for data and not feel good one liners.
So? Is that a problem? Is the goal of the military to make sure that women are properly represented or to be effective on the battlefield and win wars?
Again, so what?
So? Is that a problem? Is the goal of the military to make sure that women are properly represented or to be effective on the battlefield and win wars?
Again, so what?
For your point about diversity, I guess it depends if you think that good decisions help to win wars:
http://www.forbes.com/sites/eriklars...aking-at-work/
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To be clear, I think that the best person should get the job but that it’s more likely that you will get the best person if both sexes (a greater pool from which to select) are enthused enough to apply in the first place.
For your point about diversity, I guess it depends if you think that good decisions help to win wars:
Second, the study seems rather vague. It doesn't define for me what exactly they mean by "inclusion." Does that mean that superiors and subordinates meet together as a team to discuss possible courses of action and determine which one they think will lead to the most success? If so, stop the effing presses! That's groundbreaking stuff right there! I can't believe no one has ever thought of doing that before! Seriously though, the military has been doing that since the dawn of time and most businesses have been too. It's such an old and proven concept that it's really not even worth studying.
But even if I took the article at face value, which I don't obviously, decision making isn't the only thing that wins war. Discipline, esprit de corps, deployability, efficiency and readiness all factor in just as much if not more than "decision making," whatever that is defined as in a military sense. Do we sacrifice all those other things for the sake of one?
Because women are under represented in the military.
So? Is that a problem? Is the goal of the military to make sure that women are properly represented or to be effective on the battlefield and win wars?
So? Is that a problem? Is the goal of the military to make sure that women are properly represented or to be effective on the battlefield and win wars?
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, but because sidelining 50% of your population for no good reason undermines your capability.
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A lot of posters here have clearly made up their mind about political correctness gone mad. Only saving grace is they're not serving any more so their comments couldn't matter less!
If I was someone looking at joining and read half the crap here I wouldn't dream of it, thinking I might come up against the idiots we see here.
And, before anybody has a go, if you took offence at what's been said, it's already too late for you. Go dribble in your retirement home.
You're the one who seems to have made up their mind as evidenced by the fact that you would rather hurl personal insults than actually discuss the topic.
Intersting. Have you considered that the advert may actually turn off some of the potential recruits from your main source of manpower? I'm talking about young men by the way. Many young men turn to military service as a way to prove themselves "as a man." You can argue whether or not that's silly or shortsighted all you want but that's just the psyche of young men coming of age and trying to find their place in this world. A lot of those guys are going to look at that ad and think "Why would I want to prove or challenge myself by joining an organization full of women talking about the tactical lipgloss and maxipads?"
I don't think anyone is offended here except for the person hurling personal insults.
Intersting. Have you considered that the advert may actually turn off some of the potential recruits from your main source of manpower? I'm talking about young men by the way. Many young men turn to military service as a way to prove themselves "as a man." You can argue whether or not that's silly or shortsighted all you want but that's just the psyche of young men coming of age and trying to find their place in this world. A lot of those guys are going to look at that ad and think "Why would I want to prove or challenge myself by joining an organization full of women talking about the tactical lipgloss and maxipads?"
I don't think anyone is offended here except for the person hurling personal insults.
And no, I don't for a minute believe such an effect will be had. Mostly because that kind of guy isn't looking at the RAF in the first place, and even if he was and that advert put him off, I'm fairly confident he's not the kind of person we'd want anyway.
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That's simply because there's nothing to discuss.
You can continue thinking it's 1953, while the rest of us get by in 2019.
And no, I don't for a minute believe such an effect will be had. Mostly because that kind of guy isn't looking at the RAF in the first place, and even if he was and that advert put him off, I'm fairly confident he's not the kind of person we'd want anyway.
350 Driver
You write excellent trenchant commonsense. Your opposition seem to me to be those indoctrinated with the kind of political thinking so beloved by many leftish educational systems. My own anxieties about the recruitment of the ladies to the armed forces relate to those in direct contact with an enemy.
There has been some impetus - notified in the media - to make this option available. I believe that there are irreconcilable differences in the way that men and women approach the same task. Killing another person is a matter of considerable difficulty for both sexes; very difficult to impossible for most women; less so for men.
Men have towards women a strongly protective instinct that has been there since we stood up on our hind legs. I cannot believe, coming as I do from a military background, that this powerful instinct does not at best merely impede operational efficiency but at worst, produces a situation that can turn a successful military operation into a dangerous failure.
You write excellent trenchant commonsense. Your opposition seem to me to be those indoctrinated with the kind of political thinking so beloved by many leftish educational systems. My own anxieties about the recruitment of the ladies to the armed forces relate to those in direct contact with an enemy.
There has been some impetus - notified in the media - to make this option available. I believe that there are irreconcilable differences in the way that men and women approach the same task. Killing another person is a matter of considerable difficulty for both sexes; very difficult to impossible for most women; less so for men.
Men have towards women a strongly protective instinct that has been there since we stood up on our hind legs. I cannot believe, coming as I do from a military background, that this powerful instinct does not at best merely impede operational efficiency but at worst, produces a situation that can turn a successful military operation into a dangerous failure.
Great ad - its nice to see the RAF PR machine finally come up with something that captures the imagination, instead of some tangental nonsense that misses the mark. I am also in favour of more women in the military; this may come as a surprise to some of the old and bold, but women differ very little to men in that there are good ones, and bad ones.
As an aside, having worked with, and for, a number of women over the years, I have observed that they treat each other far more harshly than men treat them. I've seen highly capable female QHI's turn into absolute shredders when debriefing other females... go figure!
As an aside, having worked with, and for, a number of women over the years, I have observed that they treat each other far more harshly than men treat them. I've seen highly capable female QHI's turn into absolute shredders when debriefing other females... go figure!
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Originally Posted by 350 driver
And human nature is that men and women like to become romantically involved and sleep with each other.
I've worked with the other sex for my entire life. I'm now associated with an air cadet squadron where a little over half our cadets are female. Unsurprisingly, the stereotypes that endured a couple of generations back are no longer there; the youth of today (our future service personnel) are far more at ease, far more accepting of each other and they do not judge their peers on matters of gender, race or religion. To roll out the primitive arguments of mixed gender issues is laughable in today's society. It is my EXPERIENCE that the greater the diversity the better the capability.
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Back in the days of the Nimrod AEW project, it was mooted in the coffee bar that there may be female fighter control branch personnel posted onto the aircraft. (This in the days before GD was open to female). This was objected to in no uncertain terms by one of the older Spec Aircrew navs who thought that women should be in support roles on the ground and not in the air. A short time later, an elaborate spoof was hatched, and a letter to Stn Cdr Waddington arrived from Group tasking the NAEW Joint Trials Unit to investigate whether indeed female aircrew could safely and effectively fly in the aircraft...the letter ended that a positive report would be most beneficial to the Air Force. Needless to say, a fairly thick file of correspondence thumped onto the desk of the "victim" with a minute tasking him to write a paper on the subject. The majority of Stn Execs, our representatives in Group, and other parts of the RAF were all in on the affair, and even signals flashed between units asking for news on the progress of the report. The victim himself initially wrote a memo to the Stn Cdr asking not to have this task because he was personally not in favour, but the file came back to him (Memo attached). He actually wrote a very good paper on the subject but highlighted some problems such as inadequate toilet provision, lack of sanitary towel disposal etc and forwarded the draft on to OC Trials Team for approval. It came back initialled by both OC Trials Team and Stn Cdr asking him to re-write it because it was not supportive enough. Re-written it duly was, only for the file to surface at a Unit beer call and the spoof revealed (and the report read to all assembled). The last I knew of the file - it had been squirrelled away at the Trials Team and then passed on to the Sentry Training Team when the Sentry arrived on the scene. I wonder if it still exists?
Training Risky,
That's right mate, you ignore just over half the population!
And as someone who has been rather closely involved with the Home Office this past year, I can tell you for a fact that white men are NOT being turned away by ANY UK Police service, certainly not for being white men. Look at the % of non white men in the Police for goodness sake.
That's right mate, you ignore just over half the population!
And as someone who has been rather closely involved with the Home Office this past year, I can tell you for a fact that white men are NOT being turned away by ANY UK Police service, certainly not for being white men. Look at the % of non white men in the Police for goodness sake.
FB
Great ad - its nice to see the RAF PR machine finally come up with something that captures the imagination, instead of some tangental nonsense that misses the mark. I am also in favour of more women in the military; this may come as a surprise to some of the old and bold, but women differ very little to men in that there are good ones, and bad ones.
As an aside, having worked with, and for, a number of women over the years, I have observed that they treat each other far more harshly than men treat them. I've seen highly capable female QHI's turn into absolute shredders when debriefing other females... go figure!
As an aside, having worked with, and for, a number of women over the years, I have observed that they treat each other far more harshly than men treat them. I've seen highly capable female QHI's turn into absolute shredders when debriefing other females... go figure!
It is very clever and just what resonates with the young people today.
Some astounding comments on here for 2019..............
" indoctrinated with the kind of political thinking so beloved by many leftish educational systems"
""Why would I want to prove or challenge myself by joining an organization full of women talking about the tactical lipgloss and maxipads?""
I note that 350Driver gives home sweet home as Louisiana - which has never been at the forefront of equal treatment for ANYONE over the years.
" indoctrinated with the kind of political thinking so beloved by many leftish educational systems"
""Why would I want to prove or challenge myself by joining an organization full of women talking about the tactical lipgloss and maxipads?""
I note that 350Driver gives home sweet home as Louisiana - which has never been at the forefront of equal treatment for ANYONE over the years.
I don't own this space under my name. I should have leased it while I still could
Not seen the ad yet but from some remarks here.
Daughter, as a flt Lt, was selected as SME logie in a Purple CPX. The Lt Col would not accept a junior RAF female and insisted on a more senior RAF type.
As it happens daughter had known the selected wg cdr for a number of years even before she joined the RAF. The wg cdr just let her get on with it - he was a nav not a logie.
Prejudice will be around for some time yet.
Daughter, as a flt Lt, was selected as SME logie in a Purple CPX. The Lt Col would not accept a junior RAF female and insisted on a more senior RAF type.
As it happens daughter had known the selected wg cdr for a number of years even before she joined the RAF. The wg cdr just let her get on with it - he was a nav not a logie.
Prejudice will be around for some time yet.
The advert has landed very well among people I know in its target audience.
If you are so offended and sensitive that you find a single advert aimed at women, after the RAF has been around for over 100years worthy of being something to get offended and upset about, then perhaps you are a snowflake?
If you are so offended and sensitive that you find a single advert aimed at women, after the RAF has been around for over 100years worthy of being something to get offended and upset about, then perhaps you are a snowflake?
Not seen the ad yet but from some remarks here.
Daughter, as a flt Lt, was selected as SME logie in a Purple CPX. The Lt Col would not accept a junior RAF female and insisted on a more senior RAF type.
As it happens daughter had known the selected wg cdr for a number of years even before she joined the RAF. The wg cdr just let her get on with it - he was a nav not a logie.
Prejudice will be around for some time yet.
Daughter, as a flt Lt, was selected as SME logie in a Purple CPX. The Lt Col would not accept a junior RAF female and insisted on a more senior RAF type.
As it happens daughter had known the selected wg cdr for a number of years even before she joined the RAF. The wg cdr just let her get on with it - he was a nav not a logie.
Prejudice will be around for some time yet.
*devils advocate*