Go Back  PPRuNe Forums > Aircrew Forums > Military Aviation
Reload this Page >

New RAF TV advert for women

Military Aviation A forum for the professionals who fly military hardware. Also for the backroom boys and girls who support the flying and maintain the equipment, and without whom nothing would ever leave the ground. All armies, navies and air forces of the world equally welcome here.

New RAF TV advert for women

Old 26th Mar 2019, 21:17
  #1 (permalink)  
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: waterskiing 2 miles behind the ac...
Posts: 12
New RAF TV advert for women

Just saw this rubbish on TV:

https://www.forces.net/services/raf/...types-screened

AVM Chris Elliot, hang your head in shame. I didnít know we were setting quotas now.

In a country where applicants are being turned away from Police forces for being white men. Whatís next...?
Training Risky is offline  
Old 26th Mar 2019, 21:30
  #2 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: May 2003
Location: London/Oxford/New York
Posts: 2,173
Training Risky,

That's right mate, you ignore just over half the population!

And as someone who has been rather closely involved with the Home Office this past year, I can tell you for a fact that white men are NOT being turned away by ANY UK Police service, certainly not for being white men. Look at the % of non white men in the Police for goodness sake.
pr00ne is offline  
Old 26th Mar 2019, 21:56
  #3 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: liverpool uk
Age: 62
Posts: 1,150
Originally Posted by pr00ne View Post
Training Risky,

That's right mate, you ignore just over half the population!

And as someone who has been rather closely involved with the Home Office this past year, I can tell you for a fact that white men are NOT being turned away by ANY UK Police service, certainly not for being white men. Look at the % of non white men in the Police for goodness sake.
I suggest that you talk to Cheshire Police then as they have just lost this case in an industrial tribunal. In how many other forces has this happened in the past 20 years, just nobody has had the evidence to take this to a tribunal. I suggest that your so called facts are wrong.

https://metro.co.uk/2019/01/28/fire-...e-men-8402291/

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-englan...yside-47335859

Last edited by air pig; 26th Mar 2019 at 23:41.
air pig is offline  
Old 26th Mar 2019, 21:59
  #4 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: Newcastle Upon Tyne
Age: 50
Posts: 1,336
I saw it today and my immediate thought was that it was a clever advert.
Tashengurt is online now  
Old 26th Mar 2019, 22:13
  #5 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: liverpool uk
Age: 62
Posts: 1,150
Best boss I ever had was female just as the worst was. I don't discriminate on gender etc, just are they able to perform at a standard required for the job, that is better than mine with more knowledge that I posess and an ability to lead, if they can't do that then get out of the way. Don't appoint on the grounds to fulfill a quota as that way lies disaster and don't lower your standards to meet a quota..
air pig is offline  
Old 26th Mar 2019, 22:25
  #6 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: A better place.
Posts: 1,599
Originally Posted by air pig View Post
Best boss I ever had was female just as the worst was. I don't discriminate on gender etc, just are they able to perform at a standard required for the job, that is better than mine with more knowledge that I posess and an ability to lead, if they can't do that then get out of the way. Don't appoint on the grounds to fulfill a quota as that way lies disaster and don't lower your standards to meet a quota..
Agree.
F*cking great ad.
I thought I had another window running audio and was fiddling with the computer - then I realised.
Training - from some of your posts, you appear to have a problem with women mate.
tartare is offline  
Old 26th Mar 2019, 22:28
  #7 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: liverpool uk
Age: 62
Posts: 1,150
Originally Posted by tartare View Post
Agree.
F*cking great ad.
I thought I had another window running audio and was fiddling with the computer - then I realised.
Training - from some of your posts, you appear to have a problem with women mate.
I suspect that the op would not have had those opinions if they had ever had dealings with the Irredoubtable Air Commodore Hopkins, and if they had silence would have been the best policy.
air pig is offline  
Old 27th Mar 2019, 01:30
  #8 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Dec 2001
Location: Great Southern Land
Age: 52
Posts: 430
I too started moving windows around around looking for the offending popup .....

My last three COs are women, all different, all friggin' great bosses. Training if you want to channel Disgusted of Tunbridge Wells, take a looky-see at this: RAAF Pilot - Defence Jobs

If you're young, female, and already studying a Bachelor of Aviation Degree, you can apply for the Air Force Graduate Pilot Scheme (GPS). If accepted you may get:
  • All your university degree fees paid for
  • A salary while you complete your flying hours
  • Your practical flying hours paid for, and
  • As little as three years service obligation after receiving your wings

Like This - Do That is offline  
Old 27th Mar 2019, 05:01
  #9 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jun 2002
Location: CYYC (Calgary)
Posts: 4,909
I thought it was a very good ad. It made me think back to the 60s and a recruiting ad for ATC officers, with fine print pointing out that women would be paid "slightly less".
India Four Two is offline  
Old 27th Mar 2019, 06:10
  #10 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: Near the coast
Posts: 1,615
Proone et al

For what itís worth, I think itís a good advert. I have two sons and a daughter (all very young). I want them to grow up in a world where their gender doesnít hold them back.

I think that throwing spears at TR for his opinion is not actually constructive. I believe you would be better served by addressing why he holds that opinion.

You accuse him of ignoring half the population but maybe there is a real risk that by deliberately targeting a particular half you then disenfranchise the other half from which you currently draw the majority of your applicants. This may prove to be counter productive in the long run.

Conversations about race/gender/sexuality etc often end with someone who dares to hold the Ďun-trendyí opinion being accused of racism/sexism/homophobia. This is not grown up debate and it stifles the real conversation.

Let me restate that I fully support campaigns to recruit women/ethnic minorities etc but I firmly believe that we need to acknowledge the fact that our forces are currently made up of a lot of white men who are doing just as good a job as anyone else and are equally deserving of recognition.

My wife has probably put it best when she says that we have a history where people were discriminated against unfairly. We are currently in a period of readjustment hence we hear and read a lot of discrimination based stories in the media. Once the problems have been addressed we may start to hear less about it.

There are a lot of areas in our country (and most other countries) where more work needs to be done to level the playing field. Ironically, from where Iím sitting the UK Armed Forces are probably already far ahead of anyone else.

BV

Bob Viking is offline  
Old 27th Mar 2019, 08:19
  #11 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Nov 2018
Location: back out to Grasse
Posts: 120
The pendulum swings, quota based selection, affirmative action, or any other discriminatory initiative usually means that somewhere, sometime, the best trained, qualified and experienced person does not get selected.

Anger, bitterness, corruption. nepotism and the decline of capabilities quickly follow. People are not joining because the conditions of service are poor, and I recognise that it is necessary to try to recruit from an underutilised pool however it must be clear that discrimination is not happening.

Been there, seen it happen, and the outcome is not pretty.

IG
Imagegear is offline  
Old 27th Mar 2019, 09:31
  #12 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: York
Posts: 417
Is there any evidence at all of quotas being filled here, or is it simply a case that one advert has been designed to appeal to women..?

Does anyone here really think that the production of this one advert means that men won't be in the majority of new recruits to the RAF? Or that, even more absurdly, men will be denied the chance to apply?
muppetofthenorth is offline  
Old 27th Mar 2019, 11:52
  #13 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: May 2014
Location: Lincolnshire
Posts: 27
In the majority of cases in the workplace, men and women can compete on a equal footing. In some cases - where compassion and emotional intelligence are required, women are usually better. In other cases, for example when brute strength and resilience to cold are concerned men are usually better. But combat is not an equal opportunities employer.

When we have women competing against men on an equal basis in combative sports, and winning - Rugby, Boxing, MMA - then we should accept women in an infantry (close with the enemy and kill them) role. Until then, it is just PC rubbish.

A women boxer in a ring with a male heavyweight boxer would die. The best female woman Rugby players, being tackled by an All Black, would equally be badly hurt and might die. Battlefields and our enemies do not make allowances for the type, weight, strength and gender of the soldiers they fight against. We cannot put our small soldiers against other enemy small soldiers... It is just a winner takes all fight.

Natural selection and evolution has not caught up with our political agenda...
sidewayspeak is offline  
Old 27th Mar 2019, 12:02
  #14 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Aug 2000
Location: Liverpool based Geordie, so calm down, calm down kidda!!
Age: 56
Posts: 1,968
In my recent experience, I have seen the police positively discriminate for women. The section boss called out the HR people and they backed down because they knew it was wrong. On that recruitment phase there were no successful female candidates. He was invited to review his decision on selections and refused again. Two blokes got the job.
HR did formally observe that the helicopter unit had no disabled flight crew.......
jayteeto is offline  
Old 27th Mar 2019, 14:39
  #15 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: In the State of Denial
Posts: 769
In the latest edition of that journalistic heavyweight, RAF News, is a report of a speech given by AM Sue Gray in which she says, 'I can see a time in the near future when CAS is a woman and not aircrew'.

I could accept the former but, please God, not a blunty!!
Ken Scott is offline  
Old 27th Mar 2019, 15:09
  #16 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: Yorkshire
Age: 56
Posts: 47
I saw it and I think it's probably the best one since this relatively vintage production https://www.luerzersarchive.com/en/m...rce-25276.html
lightbluefootprint is offline  
Old 27th Mar 2019, 15:10
  #17 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Deepest Lincs
Age: 70
Posts: 216
Yes a good advertisement but not technically correct, in that not all trades are open to women, they still can't be a Catholic Priest....ok I'll get my hat and coat.
Motleycallsign is offline  
Old 27th Mar 2019, 17:36
  #18 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: liverpool uk
Age: 62
Posts: 1,150
Originally Posted by Ken Scott View Post
In the latest edition of that journalistic heavyweight, RAF News, is a report of a speech given by AM Sue Gray in which she says, 'I can see a time in the near future when CAS is a woman and not aircrew'.

I could accept the former but, please God, not a blunty!!
Look at what blunties have done to the Air Training Corps.
air pig is offline  
Old 27th Mar 2019, 22:36
  #19 (permalink)  
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: waterskiing 2 miles behind the ac...
Posts: 12
Thanks all for the positive replies. I am not too proud to admit that sometimes I come across as an old dinosaur but so be it! I will pick this poisoned chalice up and carry it to the end. I left in 2015 so I am fighting a rearguard action against Ďprogressí.

Of course I had the occasional female boss in the SH and J2 world, but those who got there, got there mainly without positive discrimination.

I have 3 teenage sons, and have just learned from them that at our school in Sussex there are no more places for them on a local engineering work experience scheme at a local employer, administered by the school, as the school wants more girls to make up the quota. Progress? You decide.
Training Risky is offline  
Old 27th Mar 2019, 22:46
  #20 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: Dublin
Posts: 20
I, too, agree.
unusualAtitude is offline  

Thread Tools
Search this Thread

Contact Us Archive Advertising Cookie Policy Privacy Statement Terms of Service

Copyright © 2018 MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands. All rights reserved. Use of this site indicates your consent to the Terms of Use.