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Red Arrows on channel 5 - 'Kings Of The Sky'

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Red Arrows on channel 5 - 'Kings Of The Sky'

Old 17th Jan 2019, 20:36
  #41 (permalink)  
 
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Not a great fan of television at the best of times, but I was impressed with last night's presentation. Came over very nicely, I thought. Brought back some fond memories of the early '70's when I escorted the team (Gnats) over the "pond" on their first trip to the States (I had the Vulcan!). Great bunch then and they still seem to have the same attitude today! Keep going, guys!

Bill
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Old 17th Jan 2019, 20:39
  #42 (permalink)  
 
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Much was made,in the second episode,of the photographer being awarded and securing her position in "The Circus". In the commentary about them it was mentioned that they fly in the rear seat and then service the jet after transit. Who then does the work on the photographers aircraft? She is in a non techie trade and cannot carry out flight servicings:- So does someone have to double up?
Agree that it seems to give good coverage to the squadron and not just the "Red" bit.
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Old 17th Jan 2019, 21:06
  #43 (permalink)  
 
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Like some on here, I tend to almost deliberately stay away from series like this for fear of being disappointed, but given the recommendations from family, and the good words here, I watched last nights episode.

I thought it was OK, but nothing more for me anyway. I found some of the flying sequences a bit repetitive, and the same with much of the ground stuff as well.

Some of the insight into the how the Reds function as a unit, and how different they appear to be from any other RAF squadron, was interesting. I kind of expected much of the uniqueness of the Reds to have been ironed out by successive H&S and compliance mandates, but glad it seems to still persevere!

Was also sad to see the shocking state of their line hut / accommodation, and Scampton generally. Can't help but thinkng there's nowhere better (location wise) for them though. Even if they end up moving down the A1 to Wittering you can imagine they'd still use the overhead for practicing, just like they did last time they closed Scampton.

I just wish the government would grow some balls, and a sense of pride, and spend some cash on the poor place!

And, yes, I also was moved by the footage of the Cpl - very sad loss obviously.
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Old 17th Jan 2019, 21:12
  #44 (permalink)  
 
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Surely the new pilots have LOTS of experience of formation flying, so why the big deal?
Secondly, why on eath. do the blues need to swin 4 lengrhs of a pool in a flying suit ?

In my day, dinghy drill, the training was to board your dinghy attached
, to your life jacket, supported by your Mae West, and an in immersion suit. Etc.,

No swimming required !
You obviously retired before the PTIs got their hands on the currency checklists!!
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Old 17th Jan 2019, 23:12
  #45 (permalink)  
 
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Surely the new pilots have LOTS of experience of formation flying, so why the big deal?
Because the guys gave to learn to do so much of it 'procedurally' . Does any other outfit teach guys to start applying a control input based on the leader's voice command? If you get the chance to fly with the team you'll see how impressive it is! The only way to make a big formation that tight whilst manoeuvring!
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Old 18th Jan 2019, 04:59
  #46 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by H Peacock View Post


. Does any other outfit teach guys to start applying a control input based on the leader's voice command?
I believe the Blue angels use the same method.
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Old 18th Jan 2019, 06:28
  #47 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Tashengurt View Post
I believe the Blue angels use the same method.
..as did the ex-Reds fighter pilots on the Flight.

Listening to the comms during the opposition Spit display at RIAT one year, you’d have been forgiven for thinking they’d been on the Helium during strap in. 🤣. Old habits never fade?

Last edited by Stitchbitch; 19th Jan 2019 at 07:21.
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Old 18th Jan 2019, 18:04
  #48 (permalink)  
 
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Back when Team pilots had hair, Boss had Joe Pasquale in the boot. Rest of us did the radio calls in Pasquale style. Infantile humour appreciated by the man himself.
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Old 18th Jan 2019, 19:30
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When little joe was asked what he wanted to be when he grew up he replied, a fighter pilot!

Dont’t be silly his mother replied, you can’t do both!
I remember 1980 (I think) when I helped convert the Arrows from Gnats to Hawks, it was much the same.
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Old 18th Jan 2019, 19:43
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Another thought. Soon, like 3 days, it’s the anniversary of the Kemble head on in 1971. John Haddock died in that accident. He was my first QFI at Syerston. Not an easy man to get to know but the reason I flew fast jets.

Respect, good memories and thanks.
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Old 24th Jan 2019, 21:09
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From Wednesday's episode I take it that if a member of the Circus is flying in the back and he/she and the pilot have to eject over water, the pilot is rescued by helicopter and the Circus member is rescued by boat?
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Old 24th Jan 2019, 21:19
  #52 (permalink)  
 
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ID,it used to be that the pilot could walk home...
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Old 25th Jan 2019, 15:45
  #53 (permalink)  
 
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This series has given me a whole new level of respect for Red 1.

I can't even begin to imagine how much capacity is required to talk in the way he does while keeping the jet in formation and making those control inputs. "Perty" is a legend.
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Old 25th Jan 2019, 17:07
  #54 (permalink)  
 
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Three episodes in and I am still rather impressed by the sensible detail instead of the usual Meeja bullshot.

A very convincing expose of what really is involved in doing ‘diddley-up’ and, indeed, flying ‘quite fast’ jets. Respect.
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Old 25th Jan 2019, 17:27
  #55 (permalink)  
 
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I think the programme is brilliant - and I’ll be honest, I’m impressed by what they do - but have never been an an out and out fan of the nation possessing an aerobatic team from a capability stand point.
My only pick up point is the voice over to the opening shots which implies that the team are all combat veterans...which I’m not sure is correct.
I think that there’s something appropriate in the frugality of the set up. Just my opinion but white boards and traditional accommodation is spot on for a unit practising close formation in Hawks. They do it very well and they’re coming across brilliantly.
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Old 25th Jan 2019, 18:28
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I was actually admiring the office accommodation for a flt lt, which in my day as a wg cdr at MoD had 5 senior officers in about that space!!
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Old 26th Jan 2019, 00:46
  #57 (permalink)  
 
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I was actually admiring the office accommodation for a flt lt
Their own office is one of the perks of being part of the Synchro Pair. None of the other pilots, bar Red 1, has one.
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Old 26th Jan 2019, 09:17
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Originally Posted by orca View Post
I think the programme is brilliant - and I’ll be honest, I’m impressed by what they do - but have never been an an out and out fan of the nation possessing an aerobatic team from a capability stand point.
My only pick up point is the voice over to the opening shots which implies that the team are all combat veterans...which I’m not sure is correct.
I think that there’s something appropriate in the frugality of the set up. Just my opinion but white boards and traditional accommodation is spot on for a unit practising close formation in Hawks. They do it very well and they’re coming across brilliantly.
Orca - not having a dig, but I'd be interested to know how many people in the RAF who have operated a front line aircraft at the present time are NOT combat veterans (if we define "combat" as an operational tour where where some operational effect is delivered, for the sake of our multi-engine brethren.)

As for the reds, I'm pretty confident that all of them have done a det or 6 to a sunny eastern med location or, even better, further east. I stand ready to be corrected though, there's always someone who manages to buck the trend.
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Old 26th Jan 2019, 10:36
  #59 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by pba_target View Post
Orca - not having a dig, but I'd be interested to know how many people in the RAF who have operated a front line aircraft at the present time are NOT combat veterans (if we define "combat" as an operational tour where where some operational effect is delivered, for the sake of our multi-engine brethren.)

As for the reds, I'm pretty confident that all of them have done a det or 6 to a sunny eastern med location or, even better, further east. I stand ready to be corrected though, there's always someone who manages to buck the trend.
One of the criteria for selection is that they must have completed a front line role. By that very point, given the UK’s constant involvement in the Middle East and Asia since 1991 they will have some form of operational experience under their belts. A fair few of the current crop also appear to have a Hawk background beyond being a student, either having a tour as an instructor or on 100 Sqn which probably gives them a greater degree of ‘feel’ and experience for handling the Hawk.

Red Arrows team members
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Old 27th Jan 2019, 06:09
  #60 (permalink)  
 
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Thank you to the last two posters. I am aware of the selection criteria and the Op tempo. I am however not swayed by the ‘therefore they must have’ argument. I’m still not convinced that all the Hawk operators we’ve seen are veterans of combat, which is not a dig at their commitment, professionalism or how brilliantly they’re coming across.

Edited to add: If one were to have a brief look at the mess dinner in episode 1 you could conclude that MOD agrees that at least two of the team are not combat veterans. Or they are choosing not to wear campaign medals...which would be odd. This matters not a jot - my point was about an inaccurate voice over.

FWIW - and far more emotively I hold the belief, rightly or wrongly, that only a subset of those with campaign medals will actually be combat veterans as the criteria for award rarely features combat. I would define a combat veteran as anyone who was within effective weapons range of hostiles during fighting, or similar.

Excellent programme.

Last edited by orca; 27th Jan 2019 at 07:54.
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