Military Aviation A forum for the professionals who fly military hardware. Also for the backroom boys and girls who support the flying and maintain the equipment, and without whom nothing would ever leave the ground. All armies, navies and air forces of the world equally welcome here.

‘Fast jets’

Old 24th Dec 2018, 12:45
  #21 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Hanging off the end of a thread
Posts: 25,714
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
A Jaguar was a fast jet.................
NutLoose is offline  
Old 24th Dec 2018, 15:00
  #22 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Oct 2017
Location: UK
Posts: 5
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
A Jaguar was a fast jet.................
Limited to M0.9 at low level if drop tanks were fitted. Could exceed it though.

Here we go...……………………..
dook is offline  
Old 24th Dec 2018, 15:16
  #23 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: May 2002
Location: Downeast
Age: 74
Posts: 17,678
Received 27 Likes on 21 Posts
Stilton......the early model B-52 Stratofortress (not necessarily fast or pretty but still hoofing it all these decades later) also started life with a canopy design that made it look very similar to the B-47.


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boeing...52sideview.jpg
SASless is offline  
Old 24th Dec 2018, 19:51
  #24 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: lgw
Posts: 170
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Originally Posted by ;
Limited to M0.9 at low level if drop tanks were fitted. Could exceed it though.
.95 comes to mind with tanks fitted.
factanonverba is offline  
Old 24th Dec 2018, 20:20
  #25 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Oct 2017
Location: UK
Posts: 5
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
I stand corrected.

My display jet was totally clean apart from the outboard pylons, which marginally improved directional stability, which the jet started to run out of at high alpha.
dook is offline  
Old 25th Dec 2018, 04:55
  #26 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: The Fletcher Memorial Home
Age: 57
Posts: 302
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
The Buccaneer was a "Fat" jet.......
Ogre is offline  
Old 25th Dec 2018, 13:03
  #27 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Hanging off the end of a thread
Posts: 25,714
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Considering the Jag was originally a trainer design I always thought its ability to go supersonic wasn't bad.

There were rumours about a VC10 achieved it, even a spitfire came close.
NutLoose is offline  
Old 26th Dec 2018, 09:14
  #28 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Feb 2001
Location: Lechlade, Glos.UK
Posts: 775
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Originally Posted by NutLoose View Post
Considering the Jag was originally a trainer design I always thought its ability to go supersonic wasn't bad.

There were rumours about a VC10 achieved it, even a spitfire came close.
The Jaguar, if clean, was supersonic at low-level. I should know. Shall not say where though

The VC10 has gone supersonic, though in error. Crossing the Pond at speed with the Flt Eng off the flt deck, then passing thro a front resulted sometimes in a big change in temperature which resulted in s big speed jump. Though the mach warning horn would have sounded, unless of course a naughty man had pulled the cb.
sharpend is offline  
Old 26th Dec 2018, 14:08
  #29 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Hanging off the end of a thread
Posts: 25,714
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
I did a supersonic dive in the back of a Jag off Gib once

The spitfire was a Mk 19 in a dive off Hong Kong with a Flt Lt Powell at the controls.
NutLoose is offline  
Old 26th Dec 2018, 14:10
  #30 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Hanging off the end of a thread
Posts: 25,714
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
I did a supersonic dive in the back of a Jag off Gib once

The spitfire was a Mk 19 in a dive off Hong Kong with a Flt Lt Powles at the controls.
it was PS854 and recorded 0.96 Mach or 715mph in a dive from over 51,500 ft and no that isn't a typo!

More here
Edward Powles ? Fastest Piston Pilot ? World of Indie


...

Last edited by NutLoose; 26th Dec 2018 at 14:27.
NutLoose is offline  
Old 26th Dec 2018, 17:35
  #31 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Aug 2000
Location: SW England
Age: 68
Posts: 1,389
Received 1 Like on 1 Post
Considering the Jag was originally a trainer design I always thought its ability to go supersonic wasn't bad.
Haven't done a recent search, but I believe the Jag may have had its roots in the Breguet 121, which ISTR was a potential bidder for the NATO light-fighter competition (Sabre replacement?) that was sort-of won by the Fiat G91. Sort-of, in that only the Germans, Italians and Portugese ever bought them. As usual, facts are probably all over the shop - DuckDuckGo is your friend (never touch G00gle meself...)
Thud_and_Blunder is offline  
Old 26th Dec 2018, 22:09
  #32 (permalink)  
I don't own this space under my name. I should have leased it while I still could
 
Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: Lincolnshire
Age: 79
Posts: 16,775
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Originally Posted by BigGreenGilbert View Post

Course you did!
And survived 🤓
Pontius Navigator is offline  
Old 26th Dec 2018, 23:06
  #33 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: May 1999
Location: Quite near 'An aerodrome somewhere in England'
Posts: 26,256
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
sharpend wrote:
The VC10 has gone supersonic, though in error. Crossing the Pond at speed with the Flt Eng off the flt deck, then passing thro a front resulted sometimes in a big change in temperature which resulted in s big speed jump. Though the mach warning horn would have sounded, unless of course a naughty man had pulled the cb.
Oh really? That could only happen if someone was trying to maintain a constant TAS and failed to notice a change in OAT of around -57 deg C! Frankly I smell BS, I'm afraid! Try doing the IMN / IAS / OAT calcs, mate! What I suspect happened was that no-one was monitoring the IAS and the change in OAT across a front increased engine thrust, which caused the aircraft to accelerate, tripping the high speed warning horns...and probably the odd surge or few!

During Full Air Tests, I was authorised to take the VC10K2/3/4 up to (IIRC) M0.925. The airflow noise and buffeting, as well as the nose down pitch change at high IMN and the general handling, indicated to me that anything faster would have been very risky. The VC10 C Mk1 was cleaner, but even so I very much doubt that any RAF pilot ever went supersonic in a VC10!
BEagle is online now  
Old 27th Dec 2018, 10:41
  #34 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: Gt Hockham
Posts: 97
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Originally Posted by Ogre View Post
The Buccaneer was a "Fat" jet.......
She certainly was! With a clean wing Mk 2A and newish Speys she would reach M.95 or 620kts on arrival at a display back in the day. You had to be very sure that you kept the ball in the middle above 600kts.
Hockham Admiral is offline  
Old 27th Dec 2018, 15:26
  #35 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Mar 2016
Location: UK
Posts: 38
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Fighters, bombers, etc.

Most jets are fast (or vast).
Some are fighters, the majority are not.
Questions?
Percy Cute is offline  
Old 27th Dec 2018, 18:04
  #36 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Hanging off the end of a thread
Posts: 25,714
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Originally Posted by Pontius Navigator View Post
And survived ��
S / Ldr St**n 14 Sqn took me up to do aeros, nice experience as was flying in a Fuga.. incidentally we put some Jags up for the border opening if i remember correctly, but we were not there so to speak at the time, it was flag waving come hands off sort of detachment.... caused a few in RAFG and the UK to nearly have heart failure when they saw the impromptu flight on the news, good detachment, bar nearly stuffing the seven three into the rock trying to land in out of limits crosswinds, apparently the crash was sounded as they thought we were history. Night on the Algarve and back the next day, followed by several days of walking around smelling like I had been on the piss all day and getting pulled up more than once because of it due to the muppets smashing the litre of spirits in my bag that was on top of all my uniforms.
NutLoose is offline  
Old 27th Dec 2018, 19:04
  #37 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: uk
Posts: 697
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Well, that made sense...
olster is offline  
Old 27th Dec 2018, 22:07
  #38 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: cardiff
Posts: 598
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Originally Posted by Ogre View Post
The Buccaneer was a "Fat" jet.......
Banana Jet

Ttfn
ivor toolbox is offline  
Old 28th Dec 2018, 02:53
  #39 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Hanging off the end of a thread
Posts: 25,714
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Olster, you have lost me, I was replying to PN's comment about flying in the Jag and pointing out that we all came very close to not surviving at all, closest to death I have ever come too, we nearly lost most of the Sqn.
NutLoose is offline  
Old 28th Dec 2018, 04:42
  #40 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Aug 2018
Location: Down South
Posts: 364
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Not just a UK term. It's used in the U.S. as well.
BVRAAM is offline  

Thread Tools
Search this Thread

Contact Us - Archive - Advertising - Cookie Policy - Privacy Statement - Terms of Service - Do Not Sell My Personal Information

Copyright © 2022 MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands. All rights reserved. Use of this site indicates your consent to the Terms of Use.