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Second Op Shader DFC

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Second Op Shader DFC

Old 24th Nov 2018, 18:23
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Second Op Shader DFC

Congratulations, Sir!

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...yU3ih-clOLEMM8
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Old 24th Nov 2018, 19:32
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https://www.raf.mod.uk/news/articles...rds-list-2018/
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Old 25th Nov 2018, 03:36
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I'm sorry, but this:
The complexity of this simultaneous strike required him to precisely enter varying cockpit switch selections, controlling sensors and weapons
​​​​​​​is all it takes now?
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Old 25th Nov 2018, 03:44
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Originally Posted by Traffic_Is_Er_Was View Post
I'm sorry, but this:

is all it takes now?

It's the Daily Mail, don't forget that.

I bet the actual mission was far more exciting than the report suggests, but most of us can't legally know about it.
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Old 25th Nov 2018, 05:48
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Smile

Originally Posted by Traffic_Is_Er_Was View Post
I'm sorry, but this:

is all it takes now?
No doubt more to it than that though that specific part of the citation does make me wonder when the fist Drone Pilot will earn a DFC !
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Old 25th Nov 2018, 06:29
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Op Shader

A young lad wins a DFC for multiple, successful attacks during a nine hour mission in a single seat jet over extremely hostile terrain and your first thoughts are to question and criticise?!

I think that says a lot about you!

My first thought is to say well done to him and all his colleagues who are doing a great job for little reward and, apparently, for little appreciation.

Two DFCs over four years of continuous operations is hardly giving them out like confetti.

Just my opinion of course.

BV

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Old 25th Nov 2018, 06:52
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extremely hostile terrain
i think that’s a bit of an exaggeration but nonetheless, great job by the young man.
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Old 25th Nov 2018, 06:59
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not
Originally Posted by Traffic_Is_Er_Was View Post
I'm sorry, but this:

​​​​​​​is all it takes now?

Did you not think that there may be a lot more to this than is being reported before making this ill-considered remark?
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Old 25th Nov 2018, 06:59
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Door slider

You doubt the level of hostility?

May I cordially invite you to take a stroll around the target area dressed in flying kit with the smouldering remains of your strike platform nestled in the background?

From your handle I guess you were a rotary crewman and you probably saw your fair share of hostile environments.

Just because you may have seen worse doesn’t make Syria any more pleasant for a downed pilot. Just ask the Jordanians.

BV
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Old 25th Nov 2018, 07:17
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I was RW now FW and still flying over the same areas. I agree, the threat is extremely high for “downed” airmen. I was referring to the airborne threat, while there is indeed a threat I don’t think it can be classed as “extreme”.
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Old 25th Nov 2018, 07:21
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BV, apart from the hostile terrain my second thought was the thunder storms. Having operated in thunderstorms suffering lightning strikes I know it is no fun. It is probably worse in an electronic jet.

Then the DM needs some decent editors.

It was at this point that they realised the four ISIS trucks acting as booby trapped obstacles on the road into Hawijah, in eastern Syria not far from the Iraq border.
And twice they shortened his rank.
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Old 25th Nov 2018, 07:53
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BV, #6, well said.
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Old 25th Nov 2018, 08:46
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Originally Posted by Simplythebeast View Post


No doubt more to it than that though that specific part of the citation does make me wonder when the fist Drone Pilot will earn a DFC !
Now that the SHADER medal will be given to RPAS crews then I would expect that a Queen’s Commendation for Valuable Service (QCVS) would be appropriate. It is also a shame that the Air Force Cross (AFC), once awarded for “valour, courage or devotion to duty whilst flying” was changed in 1993 with the “devotion to duty” removed. Pre-93 this would have been a most appropriate award for the highest levels of ‘devotion to duty’ shown by our RPAS crews.

Indeed the shake up of the medal system in 1993, with the removal of the Distinguished Flying Medal (DFM) and the Air Force Medal (AFM) was in my opinion a travesty. I know that one of the last serving holders of both of these medals, who is about to retire from the Service, feels the same. By combining both with the DFC and AFC then the feeling is that the Other Ranks rarely get a look in for their individual acts of valour and devotion to duty. I tend to agree with those thoughts...

PS. A big BZ to the Flt Lt for his DFC. The nay sayers need to pipe down!
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Old 25th Nov 2018, 10:46
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I see the thread title refers to the second Op Shader DFC. If the earlier one was awarded before the authorisation of the Op Shader campaign medal (Operational Service Medal) which came out earlier this year I believe, then that would have been a rare instance of a DFC being awarded when there was no associated campaign medal. Anyone have any details of the earlier award?

Oh, and many congratulations to Flt Lt Hansford
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Old 25th Nov 2018, 11:26
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Did you not think that there may be a lot more to this than is being reported before making this ill-considered remark?
I'm quoting from the citation. That's not the papers making things up, or dumbing things down.
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Old 25th Nov 2018, 11:54
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First of all, congratulations to the chap - doubtless a tough day in the office. Every campaign will have an entry point for the award of medals; invariably the "tariff" will rise over time if the campaign is prolonged. In Afghanistan, acts that got a DFC in 2006 barely warranted a MiD by 2012 given the very real threats faced on a near daily basis (both environmental and kinetic) by nearly all crews. IMHO, the citations for some of the later DFCs awarded in Herrick near, if not breach, the threshold for higher awards. Therefore, let's not try to directly compare a "Shader DFC" with a "Late Herrick DFC" as the tariffs will be significantly different. FWIW, I think it's good to see that the boys/girls who are doing the daily grind over there are receiving some recognition of the job they're doing. LJ, I agree re the RPAS crews. Had a beer with a few in LV last year and they are being pretty well thrashed….there needs to be an adequate mechanism to note their efforts too. Changing tack slightly, nice to see Al Smith sneaking in the bottom of that RAF list for a US award. TTN, as it's promulgated but he RAF, will he be allowed to wear it?
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Old 25th Nov 2018, 12:40
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Bronze Star Medal can indeed be worn. Our local RBL Chairman (Lt Col RM retd) has and wears one.

My congratulations also to Flt Lt Hansford ... that was some sortie! And I fully agree that RPAS operators deserve more - we have a friend in the business.
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Old 25th Nov 2018, 12:47
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TTN - the first SHADER DFC was this one.

Traffic - citations are significantly condensed from the recommendations upon which awards are made and omit any sensitive information. Therefore you can’t look at a citation and say that it doesn’t pass muster, because it isn’t the full story.

Interestingly when a Tornado crew did something very similar to this most recent award a couple of years back, the result was an AFC for the pilot. Since the gallantry requirement for both awards is equal and the additional requirement of the DFC is ‘on active operations against the enemy’, not ‘in the face of the enemy’ or ‘seeing the whites of the eyes’ or ‘under fire’ or such, it goes to show how there can be variation from list to list within a single operation, let alone between different operations.

Last edited by Easy Street; 25th Nov 2018 at 13:17.
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Old 25th Nov 2018, 12:59
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Agreed that the DM reporting is up to the usual standard we have come to expect, but also the caveat that most of the detail will be known only to the individuals in question and those dealing with the citation.

However, it is also consistent with the change in thinking regarding medallic recognition, with the powers that be having finally come round to thinking that the nature of operations has changed significantly in recent years. As such we should probably not be surprised to see medals being awarded, campaign and gallantry, under different criteria from past campaigns. I’m sure the change will make some of the collectors grumpy judging by comments over the years where you’d think medals were struck for their benefit!
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Old 25th Nov 2018, 14:33
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BV,

Totally agree. Lets support our guys (male or female) and desist from nit picking. Feels like jealousy to me.
Also have two protégés who pilot RPAS and listening to them I do not think we are giving them the credit they are due. The pace of operations appears to be far more intense than those who are involved with more traditional platforms. Not that they are not also deserving of much credit as well.

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