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UK unveils new next generation fighter jet, the 'Tempest'

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UK unveils new next generation fighter jet, the 'Tempest'

Old 13th Sep 2019, 11:33
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Sounds familiar, think is the standard spiel before any new program gets traction. The F-35 had a similar pitch, claiming a transformation in the production process. Sadly reality fell short of the vision.
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Old 13th Sep 2019, 12:00
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Some seem to forget that wars are won or lost on the ground.

All super powers have Air Power to dominate the sky in the first days of a conflict. And yes, we "can" build better aircraft.

But when all is said and done, the borders are marked on the ground.

See IS? They had NO air power, and still they managed to keep us busy for over a decade. And we are still not done with that gang.
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Old 13th Sep 2019, 19:11
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Originally Posted by Vilters
Some seem to forget that wars are won or lost on the ground.

All super powers have Air Power to dominate the sky in the first days of a conflict. And yes, we "can" build better aircraft.

But when all is said and done, the borders are marked on the ground.

See IS? They had NO air power, and still they managed to keep us busy for over a decade. And we are still not done with that gang.
Oh, really? How would you explain this in 1945? No ground forces involved in this...


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Old 14th Sep 2019, 08:58
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It's a bit of a one shot tactic tho'??? You can't nuke everyone - well you can but...............................

Wars are not necessarily won or lost on the ground BUT you have to roll out the PBI to actually take over - otherwise you finish up with Saddam back at home in mid 1991 and ready for Round 2
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Old 14th Sep 2019, 09:35
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Originally Posted by Lima Juliet


Oh, really? How would you explain this in 1945? No ground forces involved in this...


Not been used in aggression since. I wonder why?
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Old 14th Sep 2019, 11:45
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absolutely destroys real estate values......................
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Old 23rd Sep 2019, 01:04
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Originally Posted by Lima Juliet


Oh, really? How would you explain this in 1945? No ground forces involved in this...

All the ground forces that died to capture tinnian and the other islands the b-29 flew from. Also many historians believe russians invaision of the northern islands did more to prompt the surrender than the nukes did
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Old 23rd Sep 2019, 06:07
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Originally Posted by rattman
All the ground forces that died to capture tinnian and the other islands the b-29 flew from. Also many historians believe russians invaision of the northern islands did more to prompt the surrender than the nukes did
If you think like that, next you’ll be claiming that the Battle of Hastings secured the airfields for the Battle of Britain! Also, as I understand it the Soviets only took the Kuril Islands which have been long disputed between nations. What the Soviet Union did do though, was carve Korea in half with the US at the back end of the war (leading to the Korean War 5 years later and an uneasy ceasefire ever since!).
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Old 7th Mar 2020, 18:08
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https://asia.nikkei.com/Business/Aer...with-US-not-UK

Japan's next-gen fighter to be built with US, not UK

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Old 7th Mar 2020, 20:33
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Originally Posted by Lima Juliet


If you think like that, next you’ll be claiming that the Battle of Hastings secured the airfields for the Battle of Britain! Also, as I understand it the Soviets only took the Kuril Islands ..
You may disagree but rattman is correct , many modern historians are of the opinion that it was actually a combination of the A bomb raids and then the Soviet invasion of Manchuria that led to the Japanese surrendering when they did.
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Old 8th Mar 2020, 20:24
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I do disagree. The Japanese were hoping to seek favourable terms for surrender after the Potsdam Declaration in Jun 45 and the first bomb on Hiroshima. The brokers for those favourable terms were hoped to be the Soviets, whom had been neutral with Japan since a pact in 1941. When the Soviets invaded on the same day of the Nagasaki bomb, the hopes for those favourable terms were totally lost. What we will never know is whether the Soviet invasion would have changed that surrender - if the Japanese had surrendered in the hours between the Soviet invasion and the second bomb, we would have done. Unfortunately, the story is very convenient to anti nuclear weapon believers on the theory of deterrence of Mutually Assured Destruction. I believe the Soviet invasion was just another stressor, on top of the naval blockade “Operation STARVATION” and the fire bombings. The coupe de grace was indeed the 2x Bombs that delivered on the Potsdam Declaration. The rest is history...
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Old 14th May 2020, 16:32
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A little more fudge and blunder but I just don't think there will be any fiscal appetite for this now.





IG
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Old 14th May 2020, 16:55
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Imagegear,

On the contrary, this will be far now be more important to a "Global Britain" post Brexit and post Covid. There is an economy to be rebooted and this is not an austerity led Government. They will spend on infrastructure and this sort of UK led thing will be a priority.
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Old 14th May 2020, 17:03
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Pr00ne

I know a little about how "funny money" circulates around in the UK economy, normally without much leaving the UK, but this will require a partnership between nations.

Are you still of the opinion that there will be enough cash floating around in those other economies not to mention the confidence in achieving success? I suppose we are talking 2034 so still some time to shelve it.

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Old 15th May 2020, 07:06
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Originally Posted by Lima Juliet
I do disagree. The Japanese were hoping to seek favourable terms for surrender after the Potsdam Declaration in Jun 45 and the first bomb on Hiroshima. The brokers for those favourable terms were hoped to be the Soviets, whom had been neutral with Japan since a pact in 1941. When the Soviets invaded on the same day of the Nagasaki bomb, the hopes for those favourable terms were totally lost. What we will never know is whether the Soviet invasion would have changed that surrender - if the Japanese had surrendered in the hours between the Soviet invasion and the second bomb, we would have done. Unfortunately, the story is very convenient to anti nuclear weapon believers on the theory of deterrence of Mutually Assured Destruction. I believe the Soviet invasion was just another stressor, on top of the naval blockade “Operation STARVATION” and the fire bombings. The coupe de grace was indeed the 2x Bombs that delivered on the Potsdam Declaration. The rest is history...
The operation against Japan began exactly as it was agreed at the Yalta (Crimea) conference in Feb. 1945 where Britain and US urged the USSR to join the war against Japan in 2-3 month after "Hitler is kaput". Uncle Joe was keeping his word given to Roosevelt and Churchill, though the country was bloodily ruined and all expected to say farewell to arms in May '45.
Anyway, it was the biggest land operation in Far East with about 1 Mln Japanese troops involved and some 1.5 Mln Russian.
And the operation took place on the territory that was earlier occupied by Japan. So, it was rather a liberating action (for Mongolians, Chinese and Koreans).

As for the main topic (6th gen. fighter), I recall the British project called "Hotol" in 80's (stands for "horizontal take off and landing"). It was about a spaceplane. In reality there were just a few guys making drawings on paper with quite a limited budget. And much noise in aerospace journals. The French were very angry when this Hotol was compared to their Hermes. They already had a launcher at that time, a high fidelity mock-up, many onboard systems ready, ground test facilities and simulators, and astronaut candidates.

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Old 15th May 2020, 09:58
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Imagegear,

ALL economies are going to be in very much the same boat and all will have a need to boost and stimulate their economies, and Government infrastructure and other spending are going to be key to that, so yes, I think there will be the resources available for this sort of spend internationally.

A Van,

HOTOL was not a fighter project in any shape or form. It was a relatively cheap reusable method for putting satellites in orbit. Apart from the US Space Shuttle none of the competing schemes went through to production. BAE Systems in their British Aerospace guise of the time DID have a very active stealth next generation fighter project that was did make substantial progress and it was this that bought the UK into the only tier 1 presence on the Joint Strike Fighter all the way from initial concept through design selection through to production.
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Old 15th May 2020, 11:08
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Originally Posted by pr00ne
A Van,

HOTOL was not a fighter project in any shape or form.
Sure it was not. My message was that it was at the same very early stage - a concept - like this "Tempest" is now.


Originally Posted by pr00ne
It was a relatively cheap reusable method for putting satellites in orbit.
Correct. Provided there would be a ram/scram jet engine available at low cost. But it is not, even as of now.



Originally Posted by pr00ne
Apart from the US Space Shuttle none of the competing schemes went through to production.
Soviet Buran successfully flew and there were 3 other orbiters in production when the program was stopped.
A smaller plane-type spacecraft was also developed. If you are interested, you may please type "MAKS project Molniya" is a search engine and see many pictures popping out. Many of them are not drawings, but photos shot at production plants.

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Old 15th May 2020, 16:26
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"It was a relatively cheap reusable method for putting satellites in orbit." I think you missed out the word "intended " ahead of cheap.....

BAe are full of good intentions but remarkably bad at meeting the ones do with cost
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Old 15th May 2020, 17:06
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Originally Posted by A_Van
The operation against Japan began exactly as it was agreed at the Yalta (Crimea) conference in Feb. 1945 where Britain and US urged the USSR to join the war against Japan in 2-3 month after "Hitler is kaput". Uncle Joe was keeping his word given to Roosevelt and Churchill, though the country was bloodily ruined and all expected to say farewell to arms in May '45.
Anyway, it was the biggest land operation in Far East with about 1 Mln Japanese troops involved and some 1.5 Mln Russian.
And the operation took place on the territory that was earlier occupied by Japan. So, it was rather a liberating action (for Mongolians, Chinese and Koreans).

As for the main topic (6th gen. fighter), I recall the British project called "Hotol" in 80's (stands for "horizontal take off and landing"). It was about a spaceplane. In reality there were just a few guys making drawings on paper with quite a limited budget. And much noise in aerospace journals. The French were very angry when this Hotol was compared to their Hermes. They already had a launcher at that time, a high fidelity mock-up, many onboard systems ready, ground test facilities and simulators, and astronaut candidates.
The Brits have done a lot of projects like that. I once met one of the guy's who worked on HOTOL, who was actually a woman and I asked her why did it die (like a load of other aerospace plane projects at the same time like the X-30). Her Reply "We all cocked the maths up". Hermes of course went nowhere as well.
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Old 30th Jun 2020, 13:56
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Lengthy article on Flight Global:-
UK keeps Tempest programme on target, despite downturn

Snip:-
As the last decade was nearing an end, the UK unveiled and then expanded an ambitious programme to develop a new class of future combat air systems (FCAS) with the potential to bolster not only its military capability, but also the fortunes of its defence industry. Had the coronavirus outbreak not intervened, the nation’s Tempest project would again have grabbed headlines from 20 July at the Farnborough air show – the same location where it was revealed with great fanfare in 2018.

Buoyed by the signature of agreements with Sweden and then Italy last year, the UK’s plan to develop a variety of equipment to succeed the Eurofighter Typhoon in service from the middle of next decade has since made quiet but steady progress.

A Team Tempest industry team brings together the expertise of national defence champion BAE Systems and propulsion house Rolls-Royce, along with the UK arms of Leonardo and MBDA. Working with the Ministry of Defence (MoD) and the Royal Air Force (RAF) Rapid Capabilities Office, their collective ambition is to deliver a new manned fighter, along with unmanned systems – operating as a so-called “additive capability” – and increasingly sophisticated and networked air-launched weapons.

A notional Tempest fighter shown at the last Farnborough event gave some indication of the UK’s thinking, but a firmer set of concepts is now shaping up, ahead of the delivery of an outline business case proposal to the MoD at the end of this year.

“BAE Systems and our industrial partners in Team Tempest will be supporting this submission with evidence of our technology and transformation progress to help deliver confidence that UK industry will be well positioned to help lead the design and development of a next-generation combat air system,” says Andrew Kennedy, strategic campaigns director at BAE Systems Air.

Despite the disruption caused by the coronavirus crisis, and the Brexit process before it, the timing of the proposal’s delivery remains on the schedule set within the UK’s overarching Combat Air Strategy document, published in mid-2018.
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