UK - More defence cuts
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....either way, decisions on defence spending will be non-existent at parliamentary level for the next two years plus, so just existing budget management by the MOD for the foreseeable future. It will be interesting to see how the MOD managers spin out a budget that is probably insufficient to meet their forthcoming needs...
Another potentially game changing "constitutional process" vote coming up this week. Maybe a few tory mps find their cojones and remember they are elected to represent the views of their constituents and we can toss the whole thing - defence spending included - to Corbyn for a couple of years to sort out
Typed that four months ago on the last "defence-cuts-morphed-into-political-bun-fight" thread. Absolutely zilch has changed, so why waste keyboard life, when cut-n-paste says it all.
Another potentially game changing "constitutional process" vote coming up this week. Maybe a few tory mps find their cojones and remember they are elected to represent the views of their constituents and we can toss the whole thing - defence spending included - to Corbyn for a couple of years to sort out
Another potentially game changing "constitutional process" vote coming up this week. Maybe a few tory mps find their cojones and remember they are elected to represent the views of their constituents and we can toss the whole thing - defence spending included - to Corbyn for a couple of years to sort out
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The real danger there is that he does sort it out, but not in the way you might hope for.
As I've said many times to my long time (and very Scottish socialist) business associate, now is not the time for serious political debate amongst friends.
Now is the time to kick back with the popcorn and watch it all go to rat****
I concede it is a vexed subject with many possible “solutions”. But I’d say the current situation is driven by the perceived need for savings, without looking at efficiency and operational effectiveness. But I doubt if an accurate investment appraisal has been done to demonstrate actual savings.[/QUOTE]
Sorry but I cannot accept that. Without being specific I have been involved in a number of applications where the previous level 2 to level 4 maintenance policy was radicaly changed to inovative industry led support contracts.
On each the primary requirements was to produce a fully comprehensive cost of ownership model. From this the cost benefit of any change could be demonstrated. It was surprising how little the MoD actually knew about their true costs.
In each a basic requirement was a reliability improvement (in this case the engine). Year on year improvmens were contractualy committed to with penalty or profit payments.
Sorry but I cannot accept that. Without being specific I have been involved in a number of applications where the previous level 2 to level 4 maintenance policy was radicaly changed to inovative industry led support contracts.
On each the primary requirements was to produce a fully comprehensive cost of ownership model. From this the cost benefit of any change could be demonstrated. It was surprising how little the MoD actually knew about their true costs.
In each a basic requirement was a reliability improvement (in this case the engine). Year on year improvmens were contractualy committed to with penalty or profit payments.
Buster15
I do not disagree, it is just we are talking about different eras. I've no doubt at all that industry cost it properly, and we agree that MoD could not. The HQ posts that did know were disbanded in January 1988. This was followed by privatisation of the workshops, which meant the natural recruitment ground who brought this knowledge to HQ was gone. The only MoD standard to include a procedure for costing any support activity was last amended in January 1992, and later cancelled without replacement. If one had a copy, plus an old set of permanent LTC instructions, you'd be able to make a good fist of it.
The posts I mentioned managed reliability, but (uniquely) had the authority to overrule these permanent Instructions by, for example, trading off the minimum reliability figure (500 hours MTBR for an avionic LRU) for, say, better availability. Like I said, different ways of achieving the same.
In October 1990, this was all replaced with AMSO's "Not In Time" policy, later improved a little by "Just In Time". (Yes, you've delivered it on time to 14MU, but unfortunately the aircraft is on a ship, in the middle of the oggin). Today, I assume things haven't got worse than "Not In Time"! Made easier I suppose by fewer ships and aircraft.
I do not disagree, it is just we are talking about different eras. I've no doubt at all that industry cost it properly, and we agree that MoD could not. The HQ posts that did know were disbanded in January 1988. This was followed by privatisation of the workshops, which meant the natural recruitment ground who brought this knowledge to HQ was gone. The only MoD standard to include a procedure for costing any support activity was last amended in January 1992, and later cancelled without replacement. If one had a copy, plus an old set of permanent LTC instructions, you'd be able to make a good fist of it.
The posts I mentioned managed reliability, but (uniquely) had the authority to overrule these permanent Instructions by, for example, trading off the minimum reliability figure (500 hours MTBR for an avionic LRU) for, say, better availability. Like I said, different ways of achieving the same.
In October 1990, this was all replaced with AMSO's "Not In Time" policy, later improved a little by "Just In Time". (Yes, you've delivered it on time to 14MU, but unfortunately the aircraft is on a ship, in the middle of the oggin). Today, I assume things haven't got worse than "Not In Time"! Made easier I suppose by fewer ships and aircraft.
Last edited by tucumseh; 10th Sep 2017 at 14:10. Reason: Correct date for NIT.
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Originally Posted by [email protected]
yes, just as being referred to as a 'remoaner' is to those of us who could see past the leavers claims of a land of milk and honey outside Europe along with £350 million to the NHS.........
Seriously enjoyed the Proms last night.
Well there's not much hope and little chance of glory...........
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Originally Posted by [email protected]
We are tying up all the parlimentary time and effort with brexit at the very time we should be sorting the country out, the economy is tanking, we still have austerity to deal with.
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Originally Posted by [email protected]
The Brexit process is so f****ed up that the Govt is trying to give ministers powers of royalty (Henry VIII) to bypass parliament in making and adjusting laws.
(2)Subject to Schedule 2 to this Act, at any time after its passing Her Majesty may by Order in Council, and any designated Minister or department may by order, rules, regulations or scheme, make provision...
But those were all approved by Parliament - that is not what is being proposed this time - very different.
OK, since Brexit has resurfaced:
We ARE going to leave the EU. My wife voted to remain, We didn't 'pair' because we didn't trust each other to abstain
When I was a Royal Air Force officer it was expected that one would demonstrate loyalty to corps and country.
Those who continue to undermine the position of HMG are 'giving comfort to the enemy'.
That is why I use the intentionally pejorative term 'Remoaner' and will continue to do so.
Oh yes, my remainer wife now accepts the will of the people and supports the PM, who was also a remainer, in her efforts to obtain the best deal possible for our country.
We ARE going to leave the EU. My wife voted to remain, We didn't 'pair' because we didn't trust each other to abstain
When I was a Royal Air Force officer it was expected that one would demonstrate loyalty to corps and country.
Those who continue to undermine the position of HMG are 'giving comfort to the enemy'.
That is why I use the intentionally pejorative term 'Remoaner' and will continue to do so.
Oh yes, my remainer wife now accepts the will of the people and supports the PM, who was also a remainer, in her efforts to obtain the best deal possible for our country.
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Those who continue to undermine the position of HMG are 'giving comfort to the enemy'.
We even pay the feckers to oppose HMG.
It's a democracy thing: kinda hard to explain to people who don't understand democracy.
Cazalet33
It seems that you are the one who doesn't understand democracy. Over 500 MPs voted in 2015 to allow the people to vote whether to leave or remain in the EU. The democratic result was to leave!
This is not about 'normal' Parliamentary procedure where HMG puts a bill to The House and if HM Opposition doesn't like the proposal their role is to oppose it.
Many traditional Labour supporters, particularly in Wales and the North, voted to leave the EU and the sooner we get out the better the outcome will be!
Basil
Well said!
This is not about 'normal' Parliamentary procedure where HMG puts a bill to The House and if HM Opposition doesn't like the proposal their role is to oppose it.
Many traditional Labour supporters, particularly in Wales and the North, voted to leave the EU and the sooner we get out the better the outcome will be!
Basil
Well said!
Why, thank you, kind sir!
Getting back to the OP, I see The Admiralty have been leaking a bit to the media:
Royal Navy a 'laughing stock' with three quarters of its warships out of action and 'struggling to protect British citizens'
Getting back to the OP, I see The Admiralty have been leaking a bit to the media:
Royal Navy a 'laughing stock' with three quarters of its warships out of action and 'struggling to protect British citizens'
While it's true that the official line about the "growing navy" doesn't quite match up to reality - including the fact that frigate and destroyer numbers won't actually increase until the 2030s at the earliest on current plans - one point in the Telegraph report appears to be a straightforward untruth.
Quite simply, the ship has not had engine problems (on this occasion, so far) and has not been delayed. That hasn't stopped the same inaccuracy being picked up by most of the other rags. Expect any correction to be either absent or in tiny font on page 94.
Aside from that, other coverage highlighting the need for more investment is no bad thing I guess.
Quite simply, the ship has not had engine problems (on this occasion, so far) and has not been delayed. That hasn't stopped the same inaccuracy being picked up by most of the other rags. Expect any correction to be either absent or in tiny font on page 94.
Aside from that, other coverage highlighting the need for more investment is no bad thing I guess.
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http://www.pprune.org/military-aviat...quisition.html
has horrible graphic on the number of warships laid up....................
has horrible graphic on the number of warships laid up....................
Many traditional Labour supporters, particularly in Wales and the North, voted to leave the EU and the sooner we get out the better the outcome will be!
Its a shame when democracy is used as a shield by those unwilling to see that many who voted out did so for xenophobic or uninformed reasons.
We all want Britain to be great, we just differ on how that is best achieved.
http://www.pprune.org/military-aviat...ript>tion.html
has horrible graphic on the number of warships laid up....................
has horrible graphic on the number of warships laid up....................