Iran

[ORAC]

Which basically means to anybody is "any agreement with US President is not worth the paper it is written on".

Correct - the Kyoto and Paris climate agreements being examples in point.

[SASless]

Racedo,

I believe a short ramble through British (or is it English....I get confused on the semantics of it all) History might remind you who we learned all that from and more.

Capturing a Terrorist or Non-Uniformed Combatant on the battlefield does differ a bit from a crew of mariners going about their daily business I should think.....don't you agree?

[racedo]

Originally Posted by SASless

Racedo,

I believe a short ramble through British (or is it English....I get confused on the semantics of it all) History might remind you who we learned all that from and more.

Capturing a Terrorist or Non-Uniformed Combatant on the battlefield does differ a bit from a crew of mariners going about their daily business I should think.....don't you agree?

George Washington was a Non Uniformed Combatant for many a year.

Stopping oil going to Syria so it can continue to destroy IS/Al Aaeda with a crew of mariners comes along as the height of stupidity. Then again US Foreign Policy in Middle East is along those lines.

As for learning from the Brits, but like getting Ray Charles to provide driving lessons to Stevie Wonder and then wonder why are at the bottom of the cliff.

Its the Wilberforce worked to abolish Slavery, while many fellow Brits were making millions from type of hypocrisy.

[SASless]

If George had been captured he would have been a prisoner in one of the many prison ships you lot had in New York Harbor.

[unclenelli]

Easy diplomatic solution:
Detain the GRACE 1 crew in Gibraltar and let them go through due legal process for breaching sanctions, then...
1. Fly out a new crew to take the ship back to Iran, full, or
2. Sell the fuel to a neutral country at baseline market price (without transportation costs), then the second crew take empty ship back to Iran. (But, the quantity of cash being carried on GRACE 1 would attract the attention of pirates around the Horn of Africa area = not our problem!!! - Send your speedboats out there!)
The first crew would likely try to claim asylum, get rejected and be home with family soon enough.

[ShotOne]

Hypocrisy, racedo? Yes, Brits were making millions from slavery. But that didn’t stop us abolishing it. And devoting huge resources to enforcement. And speaking of enforcement, there has been support from France and Germany for UK proposals for increased naval presence in the Gulf. Something Iran will no doubt find unwelcome.

[t43562]

Pompeo on Iran’s capture of British-flagged tanker: Up to ‘United Kingdom to take care of their ships’

https://www.foxnews.com/world/pompeo...aptured-tanker

Helpful and supportive.

[racedo]

Originally Posted by ShotOne

Hypocrisy, racedo? Yes, Brits were making millions from slavery. But that didn’t stop us abolishing it. And devoting huge resources to enforcement. And speaking of enforcement, there has been support from France and Germany for UK proposals for increased naval presence in the Gulf. Something Iran will no doubt find unwelcome.

Only when others had cashed in on UK market share and were making more money. Slavery isn't abolished, tell that to the people in the open air slave markets in Libya that Uk helped reform,

Wonder where all the Libyan money will end up that UK Govt sequestrated.

[racedo]

Originally Posted by unclenelli

Easy diplomatic solution:
Detain the GRACE 1 crew in Gibraltar and let them go through due legal process for breaching sanctions, then...
1. Fly out a new crew to take the ship back to Iran, full, or
2. Sell the fuel to a neutral country at baseline market price (without transportation costs), then the second crew take empty ship back to Iran. (But, the quantity of cash being carried on GRACE 1 would attract the attention of pirates around the Horn of Africa area = not our problem!!! - Send your speedboats out there!)
The first crew would likely try to claim asylum, get rejected and be home with family soon enough.

No legal basis for sanctions in the first place. Iranians kept to their agreement. UK doing what Washington told them like a good lap dog.

[ShotOne]

Yes, racedo others did cash in on market share. And yes, the trade did continue despite our efforts. Sickeningly to the present day as you rightly point out. Are you demanding a return of pax britannica to stamp it out?

ironically, this seizure seems to be mobilising Europe against Iran despite having previously been very reluctant to go along with US “maximum pressure”

[tdracer]

Originally Posted by racedo

Which basically means to anybody is "any agreement with US President is not worth the paper it is written on".

The POTUS isn't a dictator (not yet, anyway). His/her agreements are not binding and don't carry the weight of the nation until they are ratified by the US Congress.
We rather like that the POTUS isn't a dictator and being limited in what they can unilaterally do or agree to.

[racedo]

Originally Posted by ShotOne

Yes, racedo others did cash in on market share. And yes, the trade did continue despite our efforts. Sickeningly to the present day as you rightly point out. Are you demanding a return of pax britannica to stamp it out?

ironically, this seizure seems to be mobilising Europe against Iran despite having previously been very reluctant to go along with US “maximum pressure”

The attempt at rewriting history such that London outlawed slavery, from thence on its citizens stopped being slavers is interesting, no factual basis for it but interesting never the less.

[ShotOne]

Any who didn’t stop did so under threat of heavy penalties, strongly enforced.

[unclenelli]

Originally Posted by racedo

No legal basis for sanctions in the first place. Iranians kept to their agreement. UK doing what Washington told them like a good lap dog.

Security Council Resolution 2199(2015) was passed to prevent funding by oil smuggling.

[AnglianAV8R]

Originally Posted by unclenelli

Security Council Resolution 2199(2015) was passed to prevent funding by oil smuggling.

Prevent funding of terrorism, namely ISIL, Al Qaeda etal, not Syria.

[Asturias56]

Originally Posted by racedo

The attempt at rewriting history such that London outlawed slavery, from thence on its citizens stopped being slavers is interesting, no factual basis for it but interesting never the less.

Let's just say the Brits were less likely to trade in slaves after the law was passed eh?

No-one has totally clean hands here but at least the Brits did something a long way ahead of many other countries

[racedo]

Originally Posted by unclenelli

Security Council Resolution 2199(2015) was passed to prevent funding by oil smuggling.

So US is breaking US Sec Council regs in allowing oil smuggling

[racedo]

Originally Posted by Asturias56

Let's just say the Brits were less likely to trade in slaves after the law was passed eh?

No-one has totally clean hands here but at least the Brits did something a long way ahead of many other countries

Some were but others continued profitable. Moralising and being so against something when you know you position is no longer profitable or tenable is a very British Trait.

Like wanting to introduce Democracy to Hong Kong as you are leaving after ignoring it for the previous 90 years.

[ShotOne]

Repeat a lie enough times and it becomes true, racedo?Slavery was both immensely profitable and tenable, witnessed by many nations which continued to profit hugely, long after abolition. It’s not for UK to tell HK how it should be governed. But we are very much party to the 50 year joint agreement guaranteeing HK retains its own laws. Amongst other things, these outlaw Hong Kongers from being kidnapped without legal process to reappear in Chinese prisons.

[beardy]

Has nobody considered that in responding to racedo all they are doing is priming a chatbot with its next response?