RAF Pilot Retention
But think of it from the Rock Cpl's perspective! Teaching (whatever the current term for GDT is) to a bunch of aircrew who resent being there can't be much fun and certainly isn't what was shown in the recruiting brochure when he decided to become a Rock.
But remember - he's the one with the CS pellets! So you'd be wise not to annoy him.
The worst 'GDT' sessions I recall where those where someone behaved like an ar$e and annoyed the instructor - such as the miserable 10 Sqn navigator who complained about being told to extinguish his pipe on the firing range...
The 'respirator test facility' was like a London pea-souper (younger readers may need to Google that!) on that occasion...
As for calling a rifle a 'gun'...
But remember - he's the one with the CS pellets! So you'd be wise not to annoy him.
The worst 'GDT' sessions I recall where those where someone behaved like an ar$e and annoyed the instructor - such as the miserable 10 Sqn navigator who complained about being told to extinguish his pipe on the firing range...
The 'respirator test facility' was like a London pea-souper (younger readers may need to Google that!) on that occasion... As for calling a rifle a 'gun'...
Well done for winding up a bloke who earns about a third as much as you do, and is trying to be equally professional.
Prick.
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Ah BEagle now you are showing your age....no CS pellets anymore and they can light as many of the GSR testing pellets they like since they are just inert disco smoke to test the seals, all done on a laptop. H&S is so all-encompassing now, that the "poor Regt cpl" has to have his own GSR on the whole time the respirators are tested lest he decide to sue HM for developing lung cancer when he's 78....
Lighten up Alf. The banter protocol between Rocks n Growbags is well developed and healthy. When at Halton for 2 weeks on a first aid instructor's course with 15 of them, I quickly became named, "Fat-Wallet" (Natwest Credit Card, remember?). I didn't feel belittled.
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Fine with the banter, not fine with the ever increasing and self-licking lollipop courses and quals. Quite happy for them to strip their weapons and shoot their loads all day long, but I just resent the "2 hour lesson smashed into a 5 day space" nature of it all...
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Guns?
Of the hand held variety, aren't rifles the long ones where the bullets (or "cartridges" to the professionals) go in near the back and guns where the pellets go in the front and are pushed down with a stick? Bring back the SLR....
Interesting to read all this. I say interesting, because I am comparing it to my own experiences 40 years ago. (yeah I know – boring old to**er!)
I joined in 1968 and left in 1982, after PVR in 1978 and having to do 3 and a bit years before they would let me go on mutually agreeable terms.
After the application to PVR, I was summoned to talk to a Group Captain in Barnwood. I sat in his office for an hour whilst he listened to what I had to say. Most of what I said could be a précis of what I have read in these posts. When I had finished he said;
‘ may I sum up what you have said as poor leadership, bad management and over tasking?’ I could not have been the only one since soon after that I heard that the Robson Report was instigated.
Now what I said to him was my opinion, and I must say that some of my colleagues went on to their 16/38 point and thoroughly enjoyed it. In other words if you enjoy the life stay, and if you don’t do something about it. The mistake it seems to me is to regard what you said at the OASC as gospel. You change, get married and have kids, and the defence vote and task change, and therefore the job changes. Remember if the facts change then change your mind. A lot of people seem to equate it as joining the priesthood.
I left and started to look for an airline job at 32, just after Laker went broke, and in the midst of Thatcher’s recession. Most found it difficult to get a job cleaning aeroplanes, never mind flying them.
As a result I ended up flying night mails for less then I was getting as a Flt Lt. That company went broke, as did the Air taxi company, and Dan Air that I subsequently worked for. I did however enjoy airline work. I was no longer an Officer in a military service first, I was a pilot first and foremost, and every time I went to work I made the company I was working for money. I found that satisfying.
But know this, airline work has its draw backs. Sure, I never had to do time on long detachments, but with an airline you work when the public want to fly. That means flying Bank Holidays, weekends, Christmas and New Year, and just try and get any meaningful summer leave. In other words when your wife and kids would like you to be at home, then you are going to work. I also note that my flying hours as a charter pilot were 35% night shifts. That is flying all night, and then trying to sleep in a house with the kids on school holidays.
Then there is the roster problem. I mentioned over tasking as a reason to leave the service. Well in 35 years and 5 companies I never had one that did not run on an absolute minimum of crew. That means roster disruption and what the service would call over tasking. One aeroplane tech, one ATC strike, or one pilot sick then your diary for the next few days or weeks is toast.
Retired 7 years now, and all in the past but I would not have changed any of it, not even the Service bit. Before you decide to leave however remember about airline flying;
‘If you got paid as much as the mother in law thinks you get paid, got as much time off as the neighbours think you get off, and sleep with as many as the ladies working in the back as her in doors thinks you did, then it is a bloody good job.’
I joined in 1968 and left in 1982, after PVR in 1978 and having to do 3 and a bit years before they would let me go on mutually agreeable terms.
After the application to PVR, I was summoned to talk to a Group Captain in Barnwood. I sat in his office for an hour whilst he listened to what I had to say. Most of what I said could be a précis of what I have read in these posts. When I had finished he said;
‘ may I sum up what you have said as poor leadership, bad management and over tasking?’ I could not have been the only one since soon after that I heard that the Robson Report was instigated.
Now what I said to him was my opinion, and I must say that some of my colleagues went on to their 16/38 point and thoroughly enjoyed it. In other words if you enjoy the life stay, and if you don’t do something about it. The mistake it seems to me is to regard what you said at the OASC as gospel. You change, get married and have kids, and the defence vote and task change, and therefore the job changes. Remember if the facts change then change your mind. A lot of people seem to equate it as joining the priesthood.
I left and started to look for an airline job at 32, just after Laker went broke, and in the midst of Thatcher’s recession. Most found it difficult to get a job cleaning aeroplanes, never mind flying them.
As a result I ended up flying night mails for less then I was getting as a Flt Lt. That company went broke, as did the Air taxi company, and Dan Air that I subsequently worked for. I did however enjoy airline work. I was no longer an Officer in a military service first, I was a pilot first and foremost, and every time I went to work I made the company I was working for money. I found that satisfying.
But know this, airline work has its draw backs. Sure, I never had to do time on long detachments, but with an airline you work when the public want to fly. That means flying Bank Holidays, weekends, Christmas and New Year, and just try and get any meaningful summer leave. In other words when your wife and kids would like you to be at home, then you are going to work. I also note that my flying hours as a charter pilot were 35% night shifts. That is flying all night, and then trying to sleep in a house with the kids on school holidays.
Then there is the roster problem. I mentioned over tasking as a reason to leave the service. Well in 35 years and 5 companies I never had one that did not run on an absolute minimum of crew. That means roster disruption and what the service would call over tasking. One aeroplane tech, one ATC strike, or one pilot sick then your diary for the next few days or weeks is toast.
Retired 7 years now, and all in the past but I would not have changed any of it, not even the Service bit. Before you decide to leave however remember about airline flying;
‘If you got paid as much as the mother in law thinks you get paid, got as much time off as the neighbours think you get off, and sleep with as many as the ladies working in the back as her in doors thinks you did, then it is a bloody good job.’
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GDT time, and my OH turns up [using her own tuned 9mm Browning 
]. Regt Cpl duly patronises WRAF officer. "Load, Ready, Make Gun Go Bang".
Well, she drilled a large hole in the centre of the target, such that it needed re-facing instead of patching random holes around the periphery.
Regt Cpl retires in some confusion, never having seen anyone actually hit the middle bit before, never mind doing it with all 10 rounds.
She caused some surprise to a Ghurka RO at Bisley as well, when the target was wound back. His simple comment was "I don't think I would like to stand in front of her, Sahib." She and I placed 2nd and 1st in that day's Sweepstake competition
]. Regt Cpl duly patronises WRAF officer. "Load, Ready, Make Gun Go Bang".Well, she drilled a large hole in the centre of the target, such that it needed re-facing instead of patching random holes around the periphery.
Regt Cpl retires in some confusion, never having seen anyone actually hit the middle bit before, never mind doing it with all 10 rounds.
She caused some surprise to a Ghurka RO at Bisley as well, when the target was wound back. His simple comment was "I don't think I would like to stand in front of her, Sahib." She and I placed 2nd and 1st in that day's Sweepstake competition
Well done Alf!
👍
👍
I left this year after 16 years. Would definitely do it all again and it was with considerable reluctance that I turned down the PAS offers and several excellent tours from the poster.
In general I agree with pretty much all the points people have made on here. If the question is about improving service life then the hierarchy have a lot of work to do! If its purely a question of retaining people then, from my personnel experience money talks. Thats what would have kept me in anyway. A sizeable, mortgage/life changing, quantity of money! As divisive as FRI's are, flying pay is (IMHO) equally bad for morale. On my last Squadron I worked alongside people who had only just started getting SP and would never, realistically, be in a position to ever get to enhanced rate. Longer term, a totally separate pay scale for pilots is the only way to go.
I don't believe its mentioned enough on this thread the effect service life has on family, including the education of children, provision of medical and dental treatment and the employment prospects for spouses. This is the single biggest reason I left. Even if I earn a third of my final RAF salary, I am now in a part of the country I have decided to live in, my kids are in decent schools and will be able to stay in them for as long as we decide to stay where we are and my wife works (which she enjoys I might add!). When you look at combined salaries and the reduction in tax then take home pay is not that different, if not better and quality of life has gone up dramatically!
But I don't get to fly cool aircraft! Will never ever regret I joined the RAF.
In general I agree with pretty much all the points people have made on here. If the question is about improving service life then the hierarchy have a lot of work to do! If its purely a question of retaining people then, from my personnel experience money talks. Thats what would have kept me in anyway. A sizeable, mortgage/life changing, quantity of money! As divisive as FRI's are, flying pay is (IMHO) equally bad for morale. On my last Squadron I worked alongside people who had only just started getting SP and would never, realistically, be in a position to ever get to enhanced rate. Longer term, a totally separate pay scale for pilots is the only way to go.
I don't believe its mentioned enough on this thread the effect service life has on family, including the education of children, provision of medical and dental treatment and the employment prospects for spouses. This is the single biggest reason I left. Even if I earn a third of my final RAF salary, I am now in a part of the country I have decided to live in, my kids are in decent schools and will be able to stay in them for as long as we decide to stay where we are and my wife works (which she enjoys I might add!). When you look at combined salaries and the reduction in tax then take home pay is not that different, if not better and quality of life has gone up dramatically!
But I don't get to fly cool aircraft! Will never ever regret I joined the RAF.
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Some really good comments on here.
Staircase - excellent post, particularly the bit about the need to re-evaluate as life and the job changes. Monkfish - Think you hit the nail on the head.
I think I need to see a Doctor - I’ve been in 25+ years and still, on balance, enjoy it and think I have a cool job. Is there something wrong with me or is this what being Institutionalised means?
Looking back I see three distinct periods in my RAF career. The first few years when everything was cool, fast and exciting with money only required for SOUP (Single Officer Unnecessary Purchases), congregating in crowded bars and being a hopeless romantic. I couldn’t understand why all the ‘old uns’ were so unhappy about everything.
Then the middle pre-marriage and family part when everything was still fast but not quite as cool and exciting as it had felt before. Infact, you sometime felt misery. The Boss talking about 'responsibility' and 'career profiles' and the money only stretching further because of the time spent in places with little to spend it on (except on Weber BBQs, Ray Bans and Mountain Dew). Also, an increased dislike of crowded bars. But the world had changed and the new cool was doing the job for real.
And then the current third stage of marriage and young children. where I am now. Suddenly the cool and exciting part seems less important and the need to provide for the family is everything. The family is the new cool and being away is really uncool. But there is also a memorable day when you realise you have become an ‘old un' and actually enjoy being miserable. Also everyone on your IOT left 10 years ago or are 2 or more ranks higher...
I also understand there may be a fourth stage when the kids leave the nest?
Many have decided to leave during these stages for many different reasons and good luck to them. I have so far tried to make the RAF work for me and my family - contrary to popular belief I have found Desk Officers humans trying to do a hard job and, as such, open to an honest discussion and (for me anyway) a compromise that suits my needs and the RAF. One day, what the RAF want me to do, or the package they give me to do it, may diverge considerably from what's best for my family and I will leave without hesitation. This could be 6 months or even 6 years. Perhaps, like many, there may be that little final straw that breaks.
Ultimately, I have learnt two things
Staircase - excellent post, particularly the bit about the need to re-evaluate as life and the job changes. Monkfish - Think you hit the nail on the head.
I think I need to see a Doctor - I’ve been in 25+ years and still, on balance, enjoy it and think I have a cool job. Is there something wrong with me or is this what being Institutionalised means?
Looking back I see three distinct periods in my RAF career. The first few years when everything was cool, fast and exciting with money only required for SOUP (Single Officer Unnecessary Purchases), congregating in crowded bars and being a hopeless romantic. I couldn’t understand why all the ‘old uns’ were so unhappy about everything.
Then the middle pre-marriage and family part when everything was still fast but not quite as cool and exciting as it had felt before. Infact, you sometime felt misery. The Boss talking about 'responsibility' and 'career profiles' and the money only stretching further because of the time spent in places with little to spend it on (except on Weber BBQs, Ray Bans and Mountain Dew). Also, an increased dislike of crowded bars. But the world had changed and the new cool was doing the job for real.
And then the current third stage of marriage and young children. where I am now. Suddenly the cool and exciting part seems less important and the need to provide for the family is everything. The family is the new cool and being away is really uncool. But there is also a memorable day when you realise you have become an ‘old un' and actually enjoy being miserable. Also everyone on your IOT left 10 years ago or are 2 or more ranks higher...
I also understand there may be a fourth stage when the kids leave the nest?
Many have decided to leave during these stages for many different reasons and good luck to them. I have so far tried to make the RAF work for me and my family - contrary to popular belief I have found Desk Officers humans trying to do a hard job and, as such, open to an honest discussion and (for me anyway) a compromise that suits my needs and the RAF. One day, what the RAF want me to do, or the package they give me to do it, may diverge considerably from what's best for my family and I will leave without hesitation. This could be 6 months or even 6 years. Perhaps, like many, there may be that little final straw that breaks.
Ultimately, I have learnt two things
Lesson 1. It’s your life and you are unique – your decisions should be made on what you think is best for you and your family.
Lesson 2. Back to lesson 1.
Lesson 2. Back to lesson 1.
BD, thank you for your comments regarding my post.
We all are aware of how the circumstances of one’s life change, with growing older, marriage and being a parent.
How does the job change? In my own case I applied to join in the Autumn of 1966, passed A levels in 1967, and actually ‘signed on’ in 1968. I did not want to be a fighter pilot, but to fly large aeroplanes around the empire. We still had bases around the globe, and the size of Transport Command (remember 1966) made BOAC look like an Air Taxi company. Since the Sands report, the future was large aeroplanes, and the only modern combat aeroplane we had was the Lightning. If there was a job to do it was in a Shackleton chasing Russian subs, or flying a large transport supporting the army in far away places.
By 1971 when I reached my first squadron, (a large aeroplane one!) we were, as a nation, in retreat from nearly all our overseas bases, and Harrier, Phantom, Jaguar were all coming into service. By the end of my first tour there had been a redundancy scheme for multi engine aircrew, and Air Support Command, and 18 Group were a shadow of what they had been 8 years earlier. It was CFS or OC GD at RAF Nowhere.
The retrenchment also meant a lot of base closures here in the UK. It seemed no sooner had I walked into a Station, then it was scheduled for closure and we were moved on. You would have difficulty counting the number of RAF stations that have closed over the last few decades.
Given the above, and a realisation that whilst NATO held the peace in Europe, the fact was that the Russians were not going to come, and that if they did my taking a bunch of Jet Provosts to West Freugh was not going make a great deal of difference to the result one way or the other. I ask you TacEval on training stations…?
Chuck in an offer of a Phantom course. That meant 3 months fast jet lead in course at Valley, then 6 months in Brawdy, then 6 months in Conningsby, then a posting to Scotland. Effectively 18 months away from home. The wife, holding my 6 month old son, talked it over with me and left me in no doubt about her feelings…..
Things changed and it was time to be off!
We all are aware of how the circumstances of one’s life change, with growing older, marriage and being a parent.
How does the job change? In my own case I applied to join in the Autumn of 1966, passed A levels in 1967, and actually ‘signed on’ in 1968. I did not want to be a fighter pilot, but to fly large aeroplanes around the empire. We still had bases around the globe, and the size of Transport Command (remember 1966) made BOAC look like an Air Taxi company. Since the Sands report, the future was large aeroplanes, and the only modern combat aeroplane we had was the Lightning. If there was a job to do it was in a Shackleton chasing Russian subs, or flying a large transport supporting the army in far away places.
By 1971 when I reached my first squadron, (a large aeroplane one!) we were, as a nation, in retreat from nearly all our overseas bases, and Harrier, Phantom, Jaguar were all coming into service. By the end of my first tour there had been a redundancy scheme for multi engine aircrew, and Air Support Command, and 18 Group were a shadow of what they had been 8 years earlier. It was CFS or OC GD at RAF Nowhere.
The retrenchment also meant a lot of base closures here in the UK. It seemed no sooner had I walked into a Station, then it was scheduled for closure and we were moved on. You would have difficulty counting the number of RAF stations that have closed over the last few decades.
Given the above, and a realisation that whilst NATO held the peace in Europe, the fact was that the Russians were not going to come, and that if they did my taking a bunch of Jet Provosts to West Freugh was not going make a great deal of difference to the result one way or the other. I ask you TacEval on training stations…?
Chuck in an offer of a Phantom course. That meant 3 months fast jet lead in course at Valley, then 6 months in Brawdy, then 6 months in Conningsby, then a posting to Scotland. Effectively 18 months away from home. The wife, holding my 6 month old son, talked it over with me and left me in no doubt about her feelings…..
Things changed and it was time to be off!
