What rank is "Master Pilot"
I had a similar situation when we used to do our airdrop courses at Nicosia. We took some of the resident garrison flying and made sure that the RSM was especially well looked after. As a result I was given the honour of 'opening' the bar if we were there before him. I made sure that this was not abused and always bought him his first drink when he arrived.
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The Army had WO I and WO II from 1915, filling a myriad of appointments with varied pay rates and job titles according to perceived worth/ responsibility.
Presumably the RAF briefly had both grades after founding in 1918 but ceased to promote to WO II and dropped the rank [when?]
Since then the RAF has Warrant Officers [all ranking with army WO I according to date of promotion] with various titles which include the MACR cohort, all ranking with each other according to date of promotion and paid variously according to perceived worth.
There is and never has been an RAF rank superior to WO and junior to commissioned rank, unlike [on dangerous ground here] the RN, who may have/ had some ranks in between .........
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The RN had some incredibly convoluted WO rank arrangements. I have tried [and largely failed] to absorb some of the detail in this rather tiresome web-page ... THE ROYAL NAVY WARRANT OFFICER PART ONE
The basic 'badges' Wiki makes passing mention of 'Commissioned warrant Officer", though ... https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Royal_..._rank_insignia
The basic 'badges' Wiki makes passing mention of 'Commissioned warrant Officer", though ... https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Royal_..._rank_insignia
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The rank of Master Tech was a promotion and a pay increase from W.O.
At the introduction of the 'New Trade Structure' in 1951, a W.O. was required to pass a trade test and have the time qualification of 20 years from qualifying for Junior Tech or its equivalent.
The time qualification was reduced in later years.
The M.T.'s that became W.O.'s in 1964, at least were not 'overtaken' by their juniors; as were the former Flt. Sgt's that had passed their trade test, done the time qualification, and were promoted to Ch. Tech before 1st April 1964. That day they discovered that they were junior to all Flt. Sgt's.
Or at least they did by WW2 - it is more complicated than that of course
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Some interesting stuff here!
Spent 35 plus years in blue, the last 19 as MACR - as someone pointed out, the best rank in the RAF! Had to refuse two commissioning opportunities to stay there! (would have meant a pay cut, so no contest!) Unusual for rank and trade in having lower case cfs on my Air Force List entry. 'Ness' Edwards was one of my operators in the 10 Sim at Brize - we had worked together previously in the late, lamented Transport Command. Service experience was littered with Masters of all types. 'Bim' Ward, John Loveridge, Jack Huntingdon, 'Knobby' Clark, Jock Riddoch, Leo Penczek et al. Knobby was my introduction to the mysteries of the hover in the Whirly 10, Bim Ward demo'ed both Chipmunk and Single Pin. I think I saw a mention of M/P Morton - I believe it was his son who pitched up at Brize in a twin light turbo -'Queen', 'Duchess'?? and kindly showed me around while reminiscing about his dad. Going from blue at Brize to civvies at BA was an eye-opener, finance enhancer and a startling indication of how staff CAN be looked after!
Spent 35 plus years in blue, the last 19 as MACR - as someone pointed out, the best rank in the RAF! Had to refuse two commissioning opportunities to stay there! (would have meant a pay cut, so no contest!) Unusual for rank and trade in having lower case cfs on my Air Force List entry. 'Ness' Edwards was one of my operators in the 10 Sim at Brize - we had worked together previously in the late, lamented Transport Command. Service experience was littered with Masters of all types. 'Bim' Ward, John Loveridge, Jack Huntingdon, 'Knobby' Clark, Jock Riddoch, Leo Penczek et al. Knobby was my introduction to the mysteries of the hover in the Whirly 10, Bim Ward demo'ed both Chipmunk and Single Pin. I think I saw a mention of M/P Morton - I believe it was his son who pitched up at Brize in a twin light turbo -'Queen', 'Duchess'?? and kindly showed me around while reminiscing about his dad. Going from blue at Brize to civvies at BA was an eye-opener, finance enhancer and a startling indication of how staff CAN be looked after!
Some interesting stuff here!
Spent 35 plus years in blue, the last 19 as MACR - as someone pointed out, the best rank in the RAF! Had to refuse two commissioning opportunities to stay there! (would have meant a pay cut, so no contest!) Unusual for rank and trade in having lower case cfs on my Air Force List entry. 'Ness' Edwards was one of my operators in the 10 Sim at Brize - we had worked together previously in the late, lamented Transport Command. Service experience was littered with Masters of all types. 'Bim' Ward, John Loveridge, Jack Huntingdon, 'Knobby' Clark, Jock Riddoch, Leo Penczek et al. Knobby was my introduction to the mysteries of the hover in the Whirly 10, Bim Ward demo'ed both Chipmunk and Single Pin. I think I saw a mention of M/P Morton - I believe it was his son who pitched up at Brize in a twin light turbo -'Queen', 'Duchess'?? and kindly showed me around while reminiscing about his dad. Going from blue at Brize to civvies at BA was an eye-opener, finance enhancer and a startling indication of how staff CAN be looked after!
Spent 35 plus years in blue, the last 19 as MACR - as someone pointed out, the best rank in the RAF! Had to refuse two commissioning opportunities to stay there! (would have meant a pay cut, so no contest!) Unusual for rank and trade in having lower case cfs on my Air Force List entry. 'Ness' Edwards was one of my operators in the 10 Sim at Brize - we had worked together previously in the late, lamented Transport Command. Service experience was littered with Masters of all types. 'Bim' Ward, John Loveridge, Jack Huntingdon, 'Knobby' Clark, Jock Riddoch, Leo Penczek et al. Knobby was my introduction to the mysteries of the hover in the Whirly 10, Bim Ward demo'ed both Chipmunk and Single Pin. I think I saw a mention of M/P Morton - I believe it was his son who pitched up at Brize in a twin light turbo -'Queen', 'Duchess'?? and kindly showed me around while reminiscing about his dad. Going from blue at Brize to civvies at BA was an eye-opener, finance enhancer and a startling indication of how staff CAN be looked after!
Jack came running across the tarmac, swearing at me for screwing-up the morning training program, He always got picked-up outside Sqn HQ as it was beneath his dignity to do the full start-checks etc.
However...when I demonstrated the fault.....He hugged me. It appeared a great friend of his had died because the F/E had ignored this well-known part of a pre-flight. Thereafter, we became buddies and we did all the planned tricky flights to exotic places in the southern Philippines.
Much later Johnny Loveridge and I used to sit side by side for hours in the original VC10 Flight Sim...we were both F/Lts then and instructed in the Sim. I seem to recall MAEOp Edwards was our consul operator.....but wasn't he also known as Taff?
Last edited by Davita; 22nd Aug 2018 at 08:50.
I don't own this space under my name. I should have leased it while I still could
Masters certainly were 'real' WOs! One of our M Eng was on some course or other at some pongo establishment and went into the bar for a pre-dinner drink....
'Jolly Jack' once showed me a photo taken of him in front of a Spitfire ( IIRC ) around the end of WW2, exclaiming " Ee I were a handsome b'stard then " - as he was a pilot trapper on ASCEU, I resisted the temptation to say you've never been handsome Jack. By the way it's HuntingTon.
Dear old 'Ness' never did quite get to grips with the coming of the VC10K to Brize...
One afternoon I went in to collect a route bag for some AAR trail or other leaving in the keep-Cyprus-happy early hours, only to find that my carefully requested diversion TAPs hadn't been included. As I roamed about trying to find the right documents, 'Ness' asked what I was doing.
"Getting the TAPs and FLIPs I'd requested your staff to supply", I replied.
To which he looked down (or rather, round) his nose and sniffily responded in rather a haughty manner "A 10 Squadron co-pilot would have been in yesterday to check the route bags".
"Quite possibly. But unlike me, he probably wouldn't have spent most of yesterday chasing Russians!" came my rejoinder.
I don't think he really ever forgave the RAF for binning Transport Command some 25 or so years earlier - or for using VC10s for such ungentlemanly activity as tanking. But such attitudes were quite common at Brize at the time.
One afternoon I went in to collect a route bag for some AAR trail or other leaving in the keep-Cyprus-happy early hours, only to find that my carefully requested diversion TAPs hadn't been included. As I roamed about trying to find the right documents, 'Ness' asked what I was doing.
"Getting the TAPs and FLIPs I'd requested your staff to supply", I replied.
To which he looked down (or rather, round) his nose and sniffily responded in rather a haughty manner "A 10 Squadron co-pilot would have been in yesterday to check the route bags".
"Quite possibly. But unlike me, he probably wouldn't have spent most of yesterday chasing Russians!" came my rejoinder.
I don't think he really ever forgave the RAF for binning Transport Command some 25 or so years earlier - or for using VC10s for such ungentlemanly activity as tanking. But such attitudes were quite common at Brize at the time.
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Quite right too.
RAF Transport Command and BOAC should have been the only users of the VC10.
Refuelling probes and grey camouflage are so common!
RAF Transport Command and BOAC should have been the only users of the VC10.
Refuelling probes and grey camouflage are so common!
Last edited by DC10RealMan; 23rd Aug 2018 at 06:57.
Any one remember Mstr.Plt. Adamek and Flt Sgt.Harry Dyde, instructors and IREs on the Vampire at Linton, 1962 ? I was going through on RN FW course No.102 in those days before clearing to Lossiemouth after “Wings”. I’m afraid I don’t know any more as the meetings were transient.
