Carlisle floods
For those having doubts about how those involved feel about the part they're playing, their equipment or the value of the work they have been doing, have a watch...
https://www.facebook.com/video.php?v=10156325677365615
Inappropriate use of the military? I think not.
https://www.facebook.com/video.php?v=10156325677365615
Inappropriate use of the military? I think not.
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Tynedale had a much smaller (but nevertheless intrusive) flood over the 5th-7th December weekend.
We received an immediate offer of help from the local RHA army barracks, however, due to 'red tape' (the army needed to be formally invited by the County Council - who were concerned about them not wearing the appropriate PPE) they didn't arrive immediately.
The Colonel later explained that they were available for 'immediate' relief response, though not for subsequent non-immediate tasking.
It is fair to say that the response from the Police, Fire Brigade and the County Council was beyond reproach and adequate (they all mobilised resources from other regions of the county to action the rescue and clear up).
We received an immediate offer of help from the local RHA army barracks, however, due to 'red tape' (the army needed to be formally invited by the County Council - who were concerned about them not wearing the appropriate PPE) they didn't arrive immediately.
The Colonel later explained that they were available for 'immediate' relief response, though not for subsequent non-immediate tasking.
It is fair to say that the response from the Police, Fire Brigade and the County Council was beyond reproach and adequate (they all mobilised resources from other regions of the county to action the rescue and clear up).
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Watching the news from very afar ( I work and obviously live abroad for most of the year), I rely upon the UK media to keep me updated (which in itself isn't ideal). But it seems a terrible situation. The people on TV from Carlisle and Appleby and all - are they being re-housed>? Are camps being set up for them? Where are they living?
Also, I actually agree that the troops involved should have correct and adequate PPE for the task before they start - that said getting them involved with the UK public in time of need shows how much they are still of the people, and with the people - (in contrast to so many others in public life). An important point, that and one which I admit I had missed.
More storms forecast for Boxing day.
Also, I actually agree that the troops involved should have correct and adequate PPE for the task before they start - that said getting them involved with the UK public in time of need shows how much they are still of the people, and with the people - (in contrast to so many others in public life). An important point, that and one which I admit I had missed.
More storms forecast for Boxing day.
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You reap what you sow, underinvestment by the Governments of this country over decades has brought this about, that and greed of developers who in search of a quick buck built on floodplains thus compounding the issues both on those developments and elsewhere down stream.
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Sorry, Nutloose but with water levels some places 5 m higher than normal, even had the money fairy funded the most extravagant defences, many would likely by now have proved inadequate. So, no, I don't agree that this is time for a knee jerk blame-the-govt session...rather, to say a big thank you to the servicemen and others who are most usefully -and correctly -being deployed to help.
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http://www.theguardian.com/environment/2014/feb/11/uk-floods-government-got-grip-minister.
The prime minister, who returned to the flooded West Country on Monday, was said to be exasperated by the communities secretary, Eric Pickles, who attacked the competence of the EA on Sunday and apologised for the policy decisions taken by the environment secretary, Owen Paterson, who is recuperating from eye surgery.
Cameron is continuing his tour of flood-hit areas of the south-west on Tuesday while thousands of properties in the Thames Valley are at risk of flooding on Wednesday.
Amid anger about the speed of the response to the crisis, Hammond told BBC Radio 4's Today programme: "The government has got a grip on this. The emergency services are in the lead and they are properly organised, the military have been mobilised to provide additional support [and] additional money has been available, equipment has been brought in …
"We're dealing with an enormous force of nature here, vast quantities of water and an unprecedented weather pattern."
Asked whether he backs Lord Smith, the head of the EA, Hammond said: "This is not the time for recriminations or for discussions of who did what when. We can do that afterwards."
A sorry tale indeed.
The prime minister, who returned to the flooded West Country on Monday, was said to be exasperated by the communities secretary, Eric Pickles, who attacked the competence of the EA on Sunday and apologised for the policy decisions taken by the environment secretary, Owen Paterson, who is recuperating from eye surgery.
Cameron is continuing his tour of flood-hit areas of the south-west on Tuesday while thousands of properties in the Thames Valley are at risk of flooding on Wednesday.
Amid anger about the speed of the response to the crisis, Hammond told BBC Radio 4's Today programme: "The government has got a grip on this. The emergency services are in the lead and they are properly organised, the military have been mobilised to provide additional support [and] additional money has been available, equipment has been brought in …
"We're dealing with an enormous force of nature here, vast quantities of water and an unprecedented weather pattern."
Asked whether he backs Lord Smith, the head of the EA, Hammond said: "This is not the time for recriminations or for discussions of who did what when. We can do that afterwards."
A sorry tale indeed.
Nutty, having spent several years living in Cumbria (unfortunately down south again now) I hope your family are all well, and well served by the troops on the ground. Particularly those in Cockermouth, whose major output (Jennings) is dear to my heart. Having experienced the firemans strike back in 79 ish, mopardave will know) I know that I could only hope that I was helping to serve my fellow countrymen. It's sad if any should feel otherwise. And I'm sure the lads now deployed are mainly happy to help out. It's a sad fact that these days news moves so fast that we all seem to want to find the scapegoat, before the problem is resolved. Be it government, civil servant, county council whatever, that is something for the future, the aid to the community must be the first priority surely ?
As an aside, I watched a piece to camera today, you know, the Sky reporter up to his wellied ankles in water, doling out advice to locals not to come to town, as there were already too many "disaster tourists" turning up ! I couldn't help but think how hypocritical that was. When you watch people busting their goolies to protect their properties and businesses, as a news cameraman films on, for public consumption, there's no wonder many resent it. Well done the servicemen I say, surely a sign of support to our fellow Britons.
Smudge
As an aside, I watched a piece to camera today, you know, the Sky reporter up to his wellied ankles in water, doling out advice to locals not to come to town, as there were already too many "disaster tourists" turning up ! I couldn't help but think how hypocritical that was. When you watch people busting their goolies to protect their properties and businesses, as a news cameraman films on, for public consumption, there's no wonder many resent it. Well done the servicemen I say, surely a sign of support to our fellow Britons.
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Shot one,
Build on floodplains and you have two issues, one you lose the floodplain and housing stock on it then gets flooded and two you lose the soak away area of that floodplain, compound that with the fact the area is now "hard" by being built on and the run off from that.
Also you can build flood defences up as much as you want, but if you haven't dredged the river systems, something that has been cut back then your on a hiding to nothing.
Remember though, all this water needs to go somewhere, and when you build on floodplains it will shift that water elsewhere..
Ohh and I have already said well done to the troops.
Smudge,
Some of the shops in Cockermouth faired ok this time according to my sister, she tells me after the last episode as an example the butchers had the building rebuilt internally like a swimming pool with all the floors and walls sealed, so after this episode he simply had to hose it out, clean down and sterilise everything and he was back in business, others had flood defences put in place that protected them this time, not all were as savvy, but some were. Ahhh Jennings.... Nectar.
Build on floodplains and you have two issues, one you lose the floodplain and housing stock on it then gets flooded and two you lose the soak away area of that floodplain, compound that with the fact the area is now "hard" by being built on and the run off from that.
Also you can build flood defences up as much as you want, but if you haven't dredged the river systems, something that has been cut back then your on a hiding to nothing.
Remember though, all this water needs to go somewhere, and when you build on floodplains it will shift that water elsewhere..
Ohh and I have already said well done to the troops.
Smudge,
Some of the shops in Cockermouth faired ok this time according to my sister, she tells me after the last episode as an example the butchers had the building rebuilt internally like a swimming pool with all the floors and walls sealed, so after this episode he simply had to hose it out, clean down and sterilise everything and he was back in business, others had flood defences put in place that protected them this time, not all were as savvy, but some were. Ahhh Jennings.... Nectar.
Last edited by NutLoose; 27th Dec 2015 at 19:50.
Smuj.......that one was a little before my time.....but I do indeed remember the 2002 strike! I felt badly for the lads on the green goddesses, for sure. I'm pleased to see the fire service doing what they should be doing.....trust me, they will be only too happy to be getting stuck in and helping. It's a messy and potentially dangerous business and I can only hope that all those involved have NOW got some decent PPE......is that too much to ask? A "can do" military attitude will achieve most things........but I can't imagine the w*nkers who have their hands on the levers of power, getting too cold and miserable? A first class effort by all at the sharp end!
Jennings.......hmmm, more of a Theakstons man myself!
MD
Jennings.......hmmm, more of a Theakstons man myself!
MD
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You're right about floodplains of course, Nutloose. Trouble is, this is a small island, lots of people want houses to live in and they have to go somewhere.
The answer, if there is one, has to lie along the lines of your second paragraph, in making buildings flood tolerant. Most people wouldn't want 5metre flood-walls throughout their town centres even if there was limitless money to pay for them.
The answer, if there is one, has to lie along the lines of your second paragraph, in making buildings flood tolerant. Most people wouldn't want 5metre flood-walls throughout their town centres even if there was limitless money to pay for them.
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Much to the amazement and disbelief of locals, an architect acquired land immediately adjacent to the river on a known area of flooding.
He built a large bungalow, which duly flooded to a depth of one metre.
Undeterred he then built a second storey, but once again the lower floor flooded.
He sold the property, and for a while there was respite from flooding, however, the inevitable happened, so the new owners 'tanked' the outer walls with bitumen and built a secondary stone wall up to the level of the windowcills (two metres), however the flood that had caused their most recent flooding had overtopped and destroyed the flood defence embankment on the opposite bank of the river (flooding 40 properties).
The Environment Agency rebuilt the embankment 18 inches higher (and wider) thus 'futureproofing' the 40 properties, however, the recent flood (5th and 6th December) reached to the top of the increased-height embankment rather than flowing over (at the previous height).
Had the embankment been rebuilt to the previous height, my neighbour's tanked outer wall would have protected his property this time, however it reached the windows and penetrated within the building.
The problem now is that the outer wall will have to be demolished to allow the trapped floodwater to be dried out, and, of course, raising it a further eighteen inches would obscure the downstairs windows.
And finally, downstream of the bridge there is a concrete wall that was not increased in height, so the river flowed over and flooded the 40 houses on that side of the river, however, the Environment Agency are claiming a success in that it allowed extra time for the residents to move possessions upstairs (though their ground floor was flooded to a depth of four feet and the duration of the recent flood remained at its peak for three hours so they face many months out of their properties (once again) whilst the plaster is removed and renewed after drying out the brickwork).
Quite a success!
Having said that, things are worse - much worse - elsewhere in the country - although flooding of your property is flooding, whether it be four feet or six feet, you still need to move out whilst the walls are dried out and the floorboards renewed.
PS:- we had another flood on Boxing Day this time a modest 14 feet rather than the 5th/6th December 19 feet. No dwellings were flooded this time, but the streets and roads were closed due to the water levels preventing traffic.
Several 'white goods' put out for collection are now further downstream . . .
He built a large bungalow, which duly flooded to a depth of one metre.
Undeterred he then built a second storey, but once again the lower floor flooded.
He sold the property, and for a while there was respite from flooding, however, the inevitable happened, so the new owners 'tanked' the outer walls with bitumen and built a secondary stone wall up to the level of the windowcills (two metres), however the flood that had caused their most recent flooding had overtopped and destroyed the flood defence embankment on the opposite bank of the river (flooding 40 properties).
The Environment Agency rebuilt the embankment 18 inches higher (and wider) thus 'futureproofing' the 40 properties, however, the recent flood (5th and 6th December) reached to the top of the increased-height embankment rather than flowing over (at the previous height).
Had the embankment been rebuilt to the previous height, my neighbour's tanked outer wall would have protected his property this time, however it reached the windows and penetrated within the building.
The problem now is that the outer wall will have to be demolished to allow the trapped floodwater to be dried out, and, of course, raising it a further eighteen inches would obscure the downstairs windows.
And finally, downstream of the bridge there is a concrete wall that was not increased in height, so the river flowed over and flooded the 40 houses on that side of the river, however, the Environment Agency are claiming a success in that it allowed extra time for the residents to move possessions upstairs (though their ground floor was flooded to a depth of four feet and the duration of the recent flood remained at its peak for three hours so they face many months out of their properties (once again) whilst the plaster is removed and renewed after drying out the brickwork).
Quite a success!
Having said that, things are worse - much worse - elsewhere in the country - although flooding of your property is flooding, whether it be four feet or six feet, you still need to move out whilst the walls are dried out and the floorboards renewed.
PS:- we had another flood on Boxing Day this time a modest 14 feet rather than the 5th/6th December 19 feet. No dwellings were flooded this time, but the streets and roads were closed due to the water levels preventing traffic.
Several 'white goods' put out for collection are now further downstream . . .
The problem appears to be older properties rather than flood plains.
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There are many "points"...
However..
From our beloved PM, hot from COBRa
"We will be there in their hour of need"
So, what about 9 months down the line, like the previous fiasco?
York. EA had to OPEN the flood defences because the control building was about to flood,
That's right.
We are talking atomic sized incompetence, especially considering the cluster
of the previous year in the SW.
I'm sure "lessons will be learnt" but all done about it.
gr
However..
From our beloved PM, hot from COBRa
"We will be there in their hour of need"
So, what about 9 months down the line, like the previous fiasco?
York. EA had to OPEN the flood defences because the control building was about to flood,
That's right.
We are talking atomic sized incompetence, especially considering the cluster
of the previous year in the SW.I'm sure "lessons will be learnt" but
all done about it.gr
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My cousin's husband, a WO2, got mobilised over Christmas and is now in York, sent from Weeton. The festivities with his young family have been disrupted, but he hasn't bitched or moaned once. We have people in the armed forces to be proud of, if not the politicians that send them from A to Z then cut their pensions/pay/allowances etc
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My cousin's husband, a WO2, got mobilised over Christmas and is now in York, sent from Weeton. The festivities with his young family have been disrupted, but he hasn't bitched or moaned once. We have people in the armed forces to be proud of, if not the politicians that send them from A to Z then cut their pensions/pay/allowances etc
