Bu**ar off...and leave your watch!
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Bu**ar off...and leave your watch!
I have been retired from the RAF 2 and 1/2 years. I have been back to my last camp on several occasions as I was invited to attend beer calls for fellow comrades leaving bash. I normally have my name sent to the guardroom, pitch up get an 'Un-escorted pass' and walk down to the squadron. However, I returned once again last Thurs to be told I now need an escort! I informed said jobsworth that I had been retired a short while, I am on the system (Control Alt F9! whatever?) and I have not needed an escort before. Nope! I am now officially a potential terrorist, who cannot wipe his own ar*e without having to send for a Cpl (who invited me and had to leave his beer behind!) to walk me down.
Just short of 35 years service and all I get is a pension (nice one I admit) and a slap in the face. This is one of the prime reasons I am SOOOOOO! happy the Waddo Air Show has been binned! I cannot get on camp but come the magical weekend in July we opened the gates to Jihhady Jim and his band of cohorts one and all.
The Americans look after their Veterans, we could take a leaf out of their book!....
I am hoping to go back for a top table lunch soon...best I apply for a DV now then!!
Just short of 35 years service and all I get is a pension (nice one I admit) and a slap in the face. This is one of the prime reasons I am SOOOOOO! happy the Waddo Air Show has been binned! I cannot get on camp but come the magical weekend in July we opened the gates to Jihhady Jim and his band of cohorts one and all.
The Americans look after their Veterans, we could take a leaf out of their book!....
I am hoping to go back for a top table lunch soon...best I apply for a DV now then!!
I don't own this space under my name. I should have leased it while I still could
Four Types, you are not alone. Lady in P&P used to work for me. I was, as you say, on the system. Still needed to have my daughter come and escort me.
."
Similar at Waddo where I had been an occasional visitor for I don't know how long "Same car Sir?, wait for your escort back to quarters"
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Similar at Waddo where I had been an occasional visitor for I don't know how long "Same car Sir?, wait for your escort back to quarters"
Tricky one. Would you let all ex servicemen in unescorted? Some oik signs on for a few years then becomes radicalised after leaving.....and I'm sure you could think of other potential scenarios. At the famous Hants Heli Base (back in line AAC!) it was, until relatively recently, possible to walk onto the base from across the MQs outside the wire. The IRA missed a trick there I feel. I think those currently serving are entitled to good security, and if that inconveniences us retirees, well I won't be complaining.
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I'm a civvy with one of the 'five camp' passes for Lincolnshire. At one which shall remain nameless I still had to turf up at the guardroom to be issued with a temporary pass after showing them my official pass which is subject to positive vetting...
"Mildly" Eccentric Stardriver
I have to agree with Kintyred. A few year ago, the airline I worked for had us stopping over in Aldergrove. I asked beforehand of OC xx sqn (one of my old squadrons) if I could visit. I got to the guardroom, and was kept there, under armed guard, while my details were checked, and then escorted to the sqn. Quite right too. I wouldn't have expected anything less.
I don't own this space under my name. I should have leased it while I still could
Herod, the other way round. I was at Norwich airport and one of the security men washed-Eng leader from, I think, 206. We chatted a while before the flight was called, then he searched me. As you say, quite right.
At last years V Force reunion I was chatting to a chap I had known when serving who had retired as the station commander of a V force base (I wont specify which). A couple of years ago he arranged a small reunion of retired officers and ORs which was to be held at said base. The plans were going well till he found out that on arrival the coach in which they were to arrive would have to disgorge its OAP pax, each of whom would have to check in individually, (30-45 minutes?)and an escort provided from the guardroom to the mess. He asked if he could handle the check-in forms in advance and take personal responsible for them during their visit to the base he formerly commanded, but was told this was not possible.
At that point he said "sod it" and they had the reunion at a nearby hotel instead. Dunno what rank you retired as Four Types but it looks as though four rings on your sleeve and scrambled egg on your hat wouldnt have made any difference!
At that point he said "sod it" and they had the reunion at a nearby hotel instead. Dunno what rank you retired as Four Types but it looks as though four rings on your sleeve and scrambled egg on your hat wouldnt have made any difference!
I'm afraid it's only going to get harder to do this sort of thing. As bases are closed down, sorry rationalised, and we move to an all eggs in one basket posture, those remaining locations will only become more critical and therefore more sensitive and therefore harder to get on to if you aren't part of the permanent staff there.
I don't own this space under my name. I should have leased it while I still could
Melchett, and you forgot to mention catering by contractor.
I attended a dining-in night at a joint unit that had sufficient real catering personnel to manage the function. The contractor refused help and insisted on doing it themselves. Despite a thorough briefing by the PMC they left a lot to be desired, in particular silver service was not done properly.
I attended a dining-in night at a joint unit that had sufficient real catering personnel to manage the function. The contractor refused help and insisted on doing it themselves. Despite a thorough briefing by the PMC they left a lot to be desired, in particular silver service was not done properly.
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As bases are closed down, sorry rationalised, and we move to an all eggs in one basket posture, those remaining locations will only become more critical and therefore more sensitive and therefore harder to get on to if you aren't part of the permanent staff there.
Unless you're a delivery driver/plumber/electrician/Uncle Tom Cobley and all. If you want to get into anywhere just turn up in a bread van.
There's been much wailing and gnashing of teeth by contractors, civil servants and those living on camp who don't have the experience to remember that this is just winding the clock back to the days that military establishments actually took security seriously.
PN,
Concur old bean, the standard of contractors is pretty poor and its only going one way as everything comes down to one or 2 companies. And as we close bases and it becomes harder for these companies to make an overall profit from the military, they are just going to rip us off, sorry, take the piss, er - no, sorry again, search for other ways to maximise revenue streams so that it's profitable for them to provide a high level of service. Oh look, a flying pig. But as a former staunch defender of the importance of the Mess and broader station life in terms of morale and unit cohesion, I hate to say it, but I'd now never voluntarily move back on base having enjoyed living in my own home in the community.
Quite right too.
You've just joined the great many of us unwashed Ex's who's only link with the modern RAF is our ever reducing friends behind the wire. No privileges; can't use the Mess, can't use the Gym. The door has firmly been slammed behind us.
But we are no longer required persons. No matter how attached or important you feel you are, you're not entitled to unrestricted access to any MOD place of work or even personnel accomodation. That was always the rule and now they're being properly enforced. Put up with it, or don't go.
You've just joined the great many of us unwashed Ex's who's only link with the modern RAF is our ever reducing friends behind the wire. No privileges; can't use the Mess, can't use the Gym. The door has firmly been slammed behind us.
But we are no longer required persons. No matter how attached or important you feel you are, you're not entitled to unrestricted access to any MOD place of work or even personnel accomodation. That was always the rule and now they're being properly enforced. Put up with it, or don't go.
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Four Types
They say you should never engage in ad hominem argument on the internet but I feel moved to do just that in your case.
You don't say what it was that you did when you were "in". My guess is that it had nothing to do with the intelligence or security function. Nor do you adduce any evidence to show that you have any particular insight in to the way that global security risk has changed in the two and half years since you were part of Her Maj's finest fighting arm. The world is a different place now to an extent that is hard to persuade people of.
I suspect too that you have not yet conveyed the beef evident in your post through the appropriate channels to your former staish (or his or her successor(s)) in order to establish just why you had the experience you claim to have had.
Perhaps you did. In which case could we see the (suitably redacted) correspondence in order better to understand the reasons behind your disappointing visit.
Simply relying on the "Don't you know who I am?" approach without insight into the current motivation and methods of those whose job it is to seek to ensure the security and safety of all still serving, as against those who were once "in", runs the risk of beaching on the shores of Cilla (see Cabin Crew forum passim).
The assessment and management of risk is an inexact science, as well I know from 30 years in the reinsurance industry. It doesn't help, of course, that all of us, whether military or civvie, now operate under severe costs constraints. These narrow the options on the spectrum of Rolls-Royce security with absolutely no inconvenience to those sensitive to impairment of their enjoyment of life to indifference to the fact that the guy on the gate wears ISIL black and totes an AK47. We have to make do with something in the middle somewhere. Just where is, of course, a matter of debate but at least contribute something constructive to that debate.
Those whose job it is to keep us from harm deserve better than anonymous bitching on the internet. If you have any sensible ideas about how to achieve a proper balance between your social convenience and the risk of serious harm to others involved in the UK's military then by all means offer them to those who are responsible for risk assessment and management.
Otherwise STFU.
They say you should never engage in ad hominem argument on the internet but I feel moved to do just that in your case.
You don't say what it was that you did when you were "in". My guess is that it had nothing to do with the intelligence or security function. Nor do you adduce any evidence to show that you have any particular insight in to the way that global security risk has changed in the two and half years since you were part of Her Maj's finest fighting arm. The world is a different place now to an extent that is hard to persuade people of.
I suspect too that you have not yet conveyed the beef evident in your post through the appropriate channels to your former staish (or his or her successor(s)) in order to establish just why you had the experience you claim to have had.
Perhaps you did. In which case could we see the (suitably redacted) correspondence in order better to understand the reasons behind your disappointing visit.
Simply relying on the "Don't you know who I am?" approach without insight into the current motivation and methods of those whose job it is to seek to ensure the security and safety of all still serving, as against those who were once "in", runs the risk of beaching on the shores of Cilla (see Cabin Crew forum passim).
The assessment and management of risk is an inexact science, as well I know from 30 years in the reinsurance industry. It doesn't help, of course, that all of us, whether military or civvie, now operate under severe costs constraints. These narrow the options on the spectrum of Rolls-Royce security with absolutely no inconvenience to those sensitive to impairment of their enjoyment of life to indifference to the fact that the guy on the gate wears ISIL black and totes an AK47. We have to make do with something in the middle somewhere. Just where is, of course, a matter of debate but at least contribute something constructive to that debate.
Those whose job it is to keep us from harm deserve better than anonymous bitching on the internet. If you have any sensible ideas about how to achieve a proper balance between your social convenience and the risk of serious harm to others involved in the UK's military then by all means offer them to those who are responsible for risk assessment and management.
Otherwise STFU.
Last edited by exuw; 11th Oct 2015 at 20:27.
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I don't think that anyone is arguing against the need for greater security. If you have no right or need to be somewhere then you don't go there, no matter who you were or are. It does go a bit pear shaped occassionally but it's better to be held up for the wrong reasons than to be let in for the wrong reasons.
Melchett: my bread van comment was purely tongue in cheek, although if you go back twenty years I bet I wouldn't be far off the mark.
Melchett: my bread van comment was purely tongue in cheek, although if you go back twenty years I bet I wouldn't be far off the mark.
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Get on with your life. Better things to do than visit worn out messes and service clubs. If your mates are your mates they will drink with you wherever. Look forwards not backwards. Life should be an adventure and you don't have adventures when you are reliving the past.
Just saying.
PS
Security should come before convenience these days anyway.
Just saying.
PS
Security should come before convenience these days anyway.
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Handed in my ID before Christmas, travelled down during resettlement for the section Christmas piss up and still technically in the RAF for another 3 weeks, had to be escorted back onto camp!!!! only been gone a week.
Never stepped foot back on a station since... except air shows.
Never stepped foot back on a station since... except air shows.
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I left 31 years ago, never went back and never looked back, move on with your life times have changed but enjoy the memories.
"thing" summed it up very well;
"thing" summed it up very well;
If you have no right or need to be somewhere then you don't go there, no matter who you were or are. It does go a bit pear shaped occassionally but it's better to be held up for the wrong reasons than to be let in for the wrong reasons.
I concur - get on with your life 4 types - mind you after 35 yrs you have probably been institutionalised and can't cope without the military umbilical cord.
That reminds me does the RAF still lend itself to officers using their rank after they leave the mil?
Saw a reverend the other day who still calls himself Squadron Leader -
That reminds me does the RAF still lend itself to officers using their rank after they leave the mil?
Saw a reverend the other day who still calls himself Squadron Leader -